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Author Topic: University worthwile? Peter Berrett Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Victoria, Australia Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-08-2007 07:13 AM                        Hi all I would strongly support people considering further study. I have done several degrees and it has assisted me considerably in my career (accountancy) as well introduced me to various interesting things (eg forensic accounting). There was earlier mention of Astronauts. I would simply point out - how many current astronauts have never studied for a degree? Not many I suspect. Even the head of NASA is studying for a further degree (he has lots). But before rushing off to Uni the important question to ask is - what do I want to be or to do? A doctor, talk show host, film producer...? Once you have worked that out look at the qualifications you require to get into that job and then advance to a higher level within that profession. You want to work at McDonalds? That's fine - but what do you want to do - serve fries, manage a store, work at head office, dress up as Ronald? Your choice will determine what qualifications or education (trade qualifications are just as useful - look at how much plumbers get paid) you will need. cheers Peter BBus (Acc) Grad Dip Adv Tax Grad Dip Pub Admin. MTax  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 06-08-2007 08:44 AM                     There are only two things that will get your foot in the door: experience or a degree. In the past you could hire on without a degree and get experience. But in today's world that just isn't so. Employers are degree snobs when it comes to hiring. They will take a dergeed know nothing over a non-degreed applicant just about every time. Its unfortunate, but that's the way it is. In my experience, many of the better jobs require that you prepare reports and papers in addition to doing live presentations. Be sure that as part of your continuing education you focus on your writing skills. In my other life, we would interview prospective employees and have them write a few paragraphs about why they wanted the job. I've seen many who were unable to communicate in intelligible sentences. Needless to say, they lost.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-08-2007 10:24 AM                     quote: Rick Raskin In the past you could hire on without a degree and get experience. But in today's world that just isn't so. Employers are degree snobs when it comes to hiring. They will take a dergeed know nothing over a non-degreed applicant just about every time. I wish that was true in my field, but it isn't. There's too many dumbass employers out there who don't know good work versus bad work and wouldn't know talent when they see it. So they look at résumés for listings of QuarkXpress and Photoshop somewhere and hire the person willing to work for the lowest level of pay -usually some non-degreed no-talent hack who ought to be rotating tires for a living. In the graphic design industry, there is a large class of wannabe graphic designers who insist formal education is completely unnecessary. They're always ready with claims of "someone they know" with no formal training being great while everyone they see with a degree doing shit work. Their hyperbole doesn't line up with reality. The truth is the most serious and talented artists typically find some way to get into art schools and other workshops and continue studying in some manner well after they have their degree. They know they're not going to grow as an artist without taking those critical steps. It is exceedingly rare that I see any adult doing what I would consider professional quality graphic design or illustration and lacking any formal design education. The reality, at least in how it relates to the graphics field, is the real "know nothings" are the ones who were self taught with no training. Finally, it's not an employer's job to take someone without any skills and train them how to do a job. The prospective employee must have something to bring to the table, such as a talent for that line of work. Customers are paying for a certain level of expertise. The person doing the work must be able to deliver.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 06-08-2007 04:23 PM                     Last night my wife and I threw a birthhday party for my daughter and six of her former high-school friends, all of whom are age 28. Around the table in this Thai garden restaurant were a Doctor of Science in physics, a lawyer, a teacher of special ed., an economist, a grad student applying for medical school, a film and TV producer, and a professor. Of much greater age were my wife, a pediatrician, and myself,a retired teacher and projectionist. All have post-graduate degrees or are working towards them, and all have experience in teaching or tutoring. It struck me what strong friendships these students maintain, from high school through their tenth class reunion, and how their lives have been enriched by their education, goals and achievements. Some interrupted their studies for Peace-Corps type activities or studies abroad, or took leaves only to return with greater dedication. Most of the excellent posts in this thread, it seems to me, consider the financial and security rewards of higher education. That's natural in our technical field, where the monetary rewards are so often so low and insecure. But the non-financial rewards of a so-called liberal education, which includes history, philosophy, science, anthropology, sociology, languages, literature, art, music, gymnastics, logic and mathematics, and the culture of past civilizations, helps the individual to grow towards better understanding of himself and the changing world he or she inhabits. Of course, such education need not be limited to college or universitiy and can continue throughout one's life. But the social and intellectual stimulation of students in close proximity enables one to confront new and challenging ideas and ideologies in a compressed time and place. For those most in need of a vocation providing an income, time is most precious, and a career or technical school might be a temporal necessity. But the goals of a liberal education still exist for enrichment of another kind.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-09-2007 09:09 AM                        In any profession, YOU are required to get licensed, certified, prepared, educated, etc. For this, you are then paid. If you are (by some miracle) actually hired when not prepared, you are then underpaid until you are up-to-speed; sometimes forever as a result of them having to pay you for doing what you should have done yourself. When you need another similar job later; the cycle repeats itself. BTW This "advice" comes to you free of charge from a person who has a B.A. in Eng. and some law school. My first cinema job was Altec Service who thought the Eng. was Engineering, and not English....literature. Louis  |  IP: Logged Joel N. Weber II Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Somerville, MA, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 06-09-2007 11:18 AM                     In looking at my friends who are in their 20s or so and don't have college degrees, those who can get jobs in the Boston area as computer system administrators seem to get paid fairly decently (though probably not as much as doctors/lawyers/etc), and those who don't have those technical skills seem to get paid significantly less. One of my friends went back to school as the dot-com era came to an end, and I think he had as easier time finding system administration jobs before he got his degree. College can be expensive, and I know various people who have spent some time being college students without getting a degree. If they went to MIT, I get the impression that, for the most part, the technicality that they didn't actually graduate doesn't cause them a whole lot of difficulty in getting jobs (especially if they spent 3 or 4 or 5 years being an MIT student); otherwise, their time spent in college doesn't seem to help them at all in getting jobs. (MIT may well not be the only school that can lead to good jobs without quite graduating, and computer system administration may well not be the only field that can pay decently without college, but those are the examples I have seen in the real world.) I think weighing whether you're realistically going to finish the degree before you start investing the money is a good move. I know a few people who have college debt from unfinished degrees that makes their life worse than it would have been if they hadn't gone to college; at least one or two of those people don't feel like they are getting enough benefit to justify the annoyances of that debt.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 06-09-2007 01:48 PM                     Why do some employers insist on a college degree when such preparation seems to have nothing to do with the work the employee is being hired to perform? Well, for one thing, the diploma is recognition that the student was able to negociate a structured learning experience over a period of years costing much time, effort, money and sacrifice. He or she has proved having enough dedication, persistance, initiative or simply sitzfleish for the long haul, including the ability to choose and research topics and carry out projects such as papers, theses, or laboratory experiments that must be scheduled to meet deadlines. Therefore, the degree is looked upon as some confirmation of a person's future performance reliability. This may be important with younger applicants, who have shorter resumes of work experience. Of course, some have faked credentials through the use of diploma mills, forged documents or through the use of a PHG degree [ Papa Hat Gelt or "Daddy Has Money", when a university conveys a diploma on the C- average son or daughter of a politician or other wealthy trustee or benefactor.] But when fraud is discovered the results can be harsh, as when several unlicensed cosmetic surgeons were jailed after disfiguring the faces and bodies of patients in New York recently.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 06-10-2007 04:08 AM                     Whats wrong with Macdonald's the drive-up cashier?  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 06-10-2007 05:07 AM                        Nothing actually. Pays $10/hour to start around here. And it can lead to career progression via Mickey D's own Hamburger University that can turn out to be pretty darn good. Store and district managers can and do make up to $80,000 or more a year. Mickey D's has always been pretty good about growing their own talent and hiring/promoting from within. Not bad at all if that's what you really want to do.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-10-2007 05:47 PM                     The store manage maybe not but the district manager probably needs to have the degree.  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-10-2007 05:51 PM                     I remember a thing from The Man Show: "You could make $80,000 a year as a district supervisor for Jack in the Box, but you still work at Jack in the Box!" They were talking about jobs to impress chicks with or something like that (firefighters, policemen etc). Funny stuff.  |  IP: Logged Peter Berrett Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Victoria, Australia Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-10-2007 09:20 PM                        Maybe if this girl had gone to Uni she might not be where she is now. cheers Peter Paris is everywhere. Resistance is futile.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-11-2007 10:04 PM                     I doubt it stupidity easily overpowers education.  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-11-2007 10:36 PM                     The thing with her is, when she gets out in 40+ days, whatever is left, she's still a billionairess and will milk it for all it's worth with a book and countless interviews no doubt. Wow I can't believe I'm defending Paris Hilton. Same goes with Joe Francis of Girls Gone Wild fame... I bet he never went to college.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-11-2007 10:52 PM                     I still think the story would be good for a sleazy women in prison movie. Bring on the steamy shower scenes.  |  IP: Logged

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