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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Avid vs. Final Cut Pro (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Avid vs. Final Cut Pro
Tal Marks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: New York, NY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-02-2004 06:19 PM      Profile for Tal Marks   Author's Homepage   Email Tal Marks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, it doesn't look like I have much of a choice this time. Coming this close to the deadline for signing up for classes this semester, it seems all the seats are taken for every section of "Digital Editing with Final Cut Pro I". It looks like I'll get one of the last spots in "Digital Editing with Avid XPress I" starting next Monday, Feb. 9th. I'm also slated for "Technologies & Techniques" on Tuesdays. (btw, anyone want to take a guess why the Avid class is 40 more bucks than the FCP class?)

I think it's important to be cross-trained on multi-platforms so one can adapt to any work environment. I'll bust my butt @ school with the Avid and will most likely see some similar aspects from it in FCP at home. It's been quite a while since I've been in school... should be exciting.

thanks everyone!

-Tal

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Warren Smyth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 158
From: Auckland ,New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 02-03-2004 03:42 PM      Profile for Warren Smyth   Email Warren Smyth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've used the Avid Media Composer for about twelve years and more recently the Quantel. The Avid gave us a few problems at the start with bugs. For example if you transferred a clip from a bin to the source monitor while the digitize tool was open, it would crash resulting in the loss of some of your work. With software updates, these have been rectified.

The Avid is now my first choice and is a wonderful tool. Keep in mind that whatever system you use, it is only a tool and yes, the training on one will benefit you for other systems. The terminology may change, but certain principals and methods remain the same.

Generally, editing falls into three main skill requirements.

1 There is the craft, which deals with the creative aspects such as film grammar, continuity, pacing etc.

2. The technical aspects of working and modifying pictures and multiple sound channels and all variations (trimming, split edits etc) and at the same time maintaining sync.

3 The actual operation of the particular editing system to achieve the first two as well as file management digitizing etc.

The first skill is the most important and that which takes the longest to develop. Editing is a craft where experience really does count, so the more editing decisions you can make to see what works and what doesn't, the better. A modest priced home system will enable you to do that.

The first and second set of skills really haven't changed since the days of editing on film with a work print. As an example, the ruler calibraited in frames along the edge of the Steenbeck or flat bed Moviola to measure off frames before cutting, has been replaced with a centre trim icon and sync reference numbers on the digital timeline. The traps and theory remain the same.

Unfortunately, there is plenty of literature about the third skill - operation of the system which you can get out of the manuals anyway (Avid produce good ones for their products), but not a lot to cover the first. Some of the best on editing theory were written in the film days. It's as if the technology has been alowed to dominate the creative aspect. The idea that there is fear (unfounded or not) that an editor should be chosen on the basis of the tool on which he or she has used, proves this. Would you employ a particular builder on the basis of his tools? You can be sure that any director that employs you on the basis of a particular editing system surely isn't going to value you for your craft skills. I can assure you it is your creativity that sets you apart as an editor. It is that which gives you the competitive edge.

Having emphasised the craft aspect, it is still a good idea to try to get a copy of an Avid manual before the course and read it. You may not be able to understand all of it but any prior knowledge is useful and don't get hung up on the effects palet options. The most common and usually effective transition is the cut. Finally, good luck and enjoy yourself.

I moved out of the projection room in my late twenties nearly thirty years ago and trained as a film editor. Never regretting it, Ive been editing continuously since.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-03-2004 07:52 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Unfortunately, there is plenty of literature about the third skill - operation of the system which you can get out of the manuals anyway.
This is a valid argument which can be made about how most classes are taught that involve digital-based creativity, be it video production/editing, graphic design, 3D, etc.

At times, I have thought about going back to school to earn a master of fine arts degree. I don't have the money to go back to School of Visual Arts in New York to do it. And I see too much computer application classes in the offerings at Oklahoma University and Cameron here in Lawton. There's not enough going on in the REAL PART of the creative process: getting the concepts together in your head and solving those visual problems quickly. Hell, there's such a lack of that going on that I've even thought about getting whatever qualifications I need to teach that stuff to others.

The thought process of art creation was one of the fundamental things when most people did their creative work in the "analog" realm (using film, oil paints, etc.). The big thing that needs to be flushed out of so many heads is the idea that the computer is doing the work. That's why there's this trap about just learning how to point and click in an application without really knowing how to create with it.

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Warren Smyth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 158
From: Auckland ,New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 02-03-2004 09:33 PM      Profile for Warren Smyth   Email Warren Smyth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby wrote
quote:
I see too much application classes in the offerings at Oklahoma University
I'm sure you are correct Bobby, but I can recommend a week long workshop in Norman at the Oklahoma University.

This is the MPPA course which is run about this time every year and is a very intensive television skills course, but applies to other industries as well. The emphasis is on the creative aspects of directing, camera work and editing in the "real" world. A note of warning, they don't tolerate fools and it has sometimes been referred to as "Boot Camp".The fact that we have regularly paid to send staff to it from half way round the globe is testimonial to it's value.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-05-2004 06:00 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sorry, I thought the poster was already editing. Two must-read texts about film language and editing are:

The Technique of Film Editing by Karel Reisz
The Five C's of Cinematography by Joseph Mascelli

They have become indespensible to me in my filmmaking activities.

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Tal Marks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: New York, NY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-05-2004 08:44 PM      Profile for Tal Marks   Author's Homepage   Email Tal Marks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for those recommendations, Tim. I'll see what the school is going to have me buy, then I'll consider those two titles as well.

-t

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-05-2004 09:48 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Happy Birthday, Tal! [beer]

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Tal Marks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: New York, NY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-05-2004 10:39 PM      Profile for Tal Marks   Author's Homepage   Email Tal Marks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Manny. Though you're over a month early, I'll make an exception this one time. Is being 30 all it's cracked up to be?

[Smile]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-05-2004 10:45 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
OK then...Happy Pre-B'Day Tal!

>>> Phil

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-06-2004 12:59 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
30 is wonderful, wish I could go back and do it again!

(Actually 25 was better.)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-06-2004 09:49 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Congratulations, Josh!!!

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Tal Marks
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: New York, NY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-06-2004 10:35 PM      Profile for Tal Marks   Author's Homepage   Email Tal Marks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not only am I turning 30 & getting married this year, but I've finally gotten to posting my 50th message in just over 4 years!
Talk about priorities! [Razz]

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