my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » How fast did steam engines go? (Page 2)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: How fast did steam engines go? Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-22-2004 11:34 PM                        Where did the railroad lines you see in Western movies go? If they always tried to go as fast as possible, did many trains derail (in addition to the ones which were messed up by bandits placing a log on the rails or blowing up bridges, or maybe that is just movie legend)?.  |  IP: Logged Ron Keillor Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Registered: Jul 2003 posted 02-23-2004 02:05 AM                     For films showing long-distance passenger experience (overnight trips) see for example: SOME LIKE IT HOT, TWENTIETH CENTURY, or THE PALM BEACH STORY. THE HARVEY GIRLS is interesting not so much for any rail sequences, but for the Fred Harvey restaurants that trains stopped at, reducing the weight of the train. [ 02-23-2004, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Ron Keillor ]  |  IP: Logged Gilbert Travin Expert Film Handler Posts: 101 From: Villeurbanne / France Registered: Jan 2004 posted 02-23-2004 02:13 AM                        Hi ! In France, the last steam locomotive runned on the "cote d'azur" railway up to 1970. On the railway Paris-Lyon, the max speed was about 120-130 km/h... Today, some train-collectors have a few steam-machines for special travels organized in week-end. We have also a few tourist-trains with metric railway and also standard (1.43 m) railway that run with steam ... An other era !!!  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-23-2004 04:33 AM                        in "man of the west" a train bound for ft. worth stops in the middle of nowhere (texas) and all the able-bodied men are asked to get out and load wood onto the train. robbers attack, a shootout ensues, and the train speeds off leaving gary cooper, julie london, and arthur o'connell stranded in the wilderness. sounds like fun. carl  |  IP: Logged Hillary Charles Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 748 From: York, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-23-2004 07:47 AM                     The most relevant information I'm aware of is that pertaining to "The Great Locomotive Chase," when Union spies stole the Confederate's Western & Atlantic Railroad engine "General" and were pursued by that train's crew and others until the spies ran out of steam and luck. Though not taking place in the Wild West, the type of engines involved were of the American 4-4-0 variety that was prevalent in the American West (the Jupiter and 119 in the Golden Spike photo are both similar 4-4-0's). The General's conductor, William A Fuller, noted the time they covered a part of the line which timed out to 60 miles an hour. He said that was about twice their normal speed, and considering the tracks they were using at the time on the W&A, it must have been a hellish ride.  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-23-2004 08:59 AM                     Mark-- I've been up all night browsing ALL the sites in your last post; drinking two pots of coffee (I'm wired!)to stay awake. The Big Boy is my favorite, too. 4-8-8-8-4:mmmmmmmmmm There is just nothing like 'em. Gotta get some sleep ! fjn [ 02-23-2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Floyd Justin Newton ]  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-23-2004 02:35 PM                     Remember that when it comes to "Big Boys", they were built to rapidly transport high tonnage on mostly straight track w/lots of heavy grades in the Northern US. Their actual range of operation was quite limited. Throughout their lives, Challengers were repeatidly converted between coal and oil firing. The problem with Big Boys is that thier firebox is just too large to allow for efficient oil firing. As for coal, many of the coaling towers have been demolished. The SP coaling tower in Tucson (one of the Tucson landmarks), was torn down soon after UP took over SP. There were a lot of protests about the destruction...including a homeless person who had made it his home! The razing of the Tucson Coaling Tower was top news around here! Anyhow, the Big Boys were coal fired, and fueling them up would be a real pain! Furthermore, even if a Big Boy was to be restored, the areas in which it could operate would be very limited. I am not sure if a turn-table is even around capable of turning it? Another thing to consider is that the Big Boy (engine and tender weight) was over 1 million pounds. The sheer weight of this monster would make havoc on system rail! It is interesting to note that when UP 3985 (Challenger) and 8444 (Northern) are in opeperation, which is generally for excursion service, if there is a gap in the excursion, UP will in fact use them for actual revenue freight. Mark I Video has released footage of the Challenger in current freight ops! One of the reasons for this is that the Challengers operate better with a load (they are less apt to slippage, and possible stalling due to slippage, with a load). I also understand that the various Big Boys around the country (mostly in Dallas and Pamona) have been raided for parts to restore 3985. As for the end of the steam era...this is a topic that will forever be debated. Between WWI and WWII, EMD was a little known company that introduced diesel engines. These were unreliable clunk things that no-one took seriously. The Big Three (ALCO, BALDWIN and LIMA) of steam-building fame certainly did not. Well, EMD (which was aquired by GM) pressed ahead w/ R&D, while the Big Three paid no attention to diesel development. After EMD became part of GM, GM through all its resources behind this little outfit. Meanwhile, the BIG THREE completely continued to ignore diesel development. During wartime, American railroads are governed by the USRA. Railroad efficiency was of prime importance during war-time. The USRA had total controll over the railroads; they approved R & D into new motive power and rolling stock, controlled who could build what, and allocated raw materials for production. (Keep in mind that prime materials were used for military weapons, so lower grade materials were allocated for domestic use, including locomotive construction). USRA was concerned with railroad efficiency, and restricted the builders to their areas of expertise. So, EMD and its parent GM were allowed to continue on with Diesel development, while the BIG THREE were restricted from doing so. By the time the GP7 was formally introduced in the early 1950's, the die was cast. EMD/GM was just to far advanced in Diesel development for the BIG THREE to catch up. Although steam is much more powerful than diesel, diesel is just so much cheaper to operate! This spelled the doom for steam. Also, by the time diesel came into its own, advanced steam technology had really reached its peak.  |  IP: Logged Gerard S. Cohen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 975 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 02-23-2004 03:14 PM                     How did the steam locomotives eject the ashes from their coal fireboxes? Was this done while running, and if so did it start forest fires or burn up the ties?  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-23-2004 03:44 PM                     Gerard-- Located in railyards generally near the roundhouse was a pit between the rails. There a stram engine could drop their fire (including ashes and cinders) to harmlessly die out. Then the pit would be cleaned out when it got full. fjn  |  IP: Logged Travis Hubrig Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Minot ND, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 02-23-2004 03:47 PM                     Paul, I'm not sure about the rail station, but I think you are talking about the locomotive at our zoo/park... there was lots of talk of restoration except for the expense of removing/covering all of the asbestos on the water tank. This last summer there were quite a few articles in our paper about. I have an uncle who is a railroad buff that would know much more about it.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-23-2004 04:40 PM                        According to mapquest, from New York to Los Angeles it is 2800 miles on modern roads. At a speed of 60 mph, it would take 48 hours continuous travel. Taking into account that they had to stop for refueling and breaks - did people sleep on the train or not? I am talking about the "classic Western era", 1850-90 or so - and also had to haul the trains over big mountains, is it realisitc to say it probably took about 10 days to travel across the entire country? Which at that time must still have been like the speed of lightning for people when it otherwise it took probably months to get to the promised lands by horse-drawn carriage.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-23-2004 06:47 PM                     I remember reading or hearing two weeks average if you made it alive..... You ought to come out here and I'll take you up to Rollins Pass and you can get a good idea of what it was like back then. There are MANY remnants left up there including quite a few wooden trestle bridges and wooden snow covers, and ruins. Some tracks are still there now burried in the road going up but partially exposed. This in one palce they didn't bother to rip up allthe track. Its a really neat place to explore and scenery that you've got to see to believe. Imagine a railroad over the Swiss Alps....thats what its like up there. Of course there is always some theatre service work to do along the way...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-23-2004 10:33 PM                     Gerard.... Forest fires were a major railroad concern. Several types of locomotives incorporated several devices to preventthis from happening, and this includes the Big Boys and Challengers. Ash pans sere equipped with screened netting. Many short-line, narrow guage and mining roads equipped their locomotives with special smoke stacks. If you look at the inside of smokebox doors (the big hinged door on the front of the boiler/locomotive), had ridges to help tame-down cinders. Standard stacks may have also had special cinder apperatuses.  |  IP: Logged Ian Price Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1714 From: Denver, CO Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-24-2004 01:57 PM                     Michael, When the first Transcontinental railway opened it took 2-weeks to cross the country which was significantly faster than the 4-6 months it took before. Steam engines had to stop frequently to refuel and water. Dinners were taken off the train in towns while the engine was serviced. Hotels were set up in towns to let the passengers sleep, clean themselves up (coal smoke), and dine. As efficiency improved and stops between fueling and watering were lengthened, dining cars, Pullman cars (sleeping cars) and such were added. This got the typical transcontinental journey down to a week. By the 1920s it got down to 3-days where it remains to this day. As for your question as to where are the tracks today? They are still in the same place. Some shortcuts were taken and some tunnels drilled, but for the most part, the transcontinental roadbed remains the same bed.  |  IP: Logged Gary Crawford Expert Film Handler Posts: 200 From: Neptune NJ USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 02-24-2004 02:27 PM                     Steve Kraus has it right about driver diameter. Roughly, "cruising speed" was in MPH about the diameter of the drive wheels in inches. Other factors included cylinder bore and stroke, designed for either fast running or pulling power. Fast locomotives had smaller cylinders for the most part, speed over power. Those old Civil War-era 4-4-0s appeared to be capable of fast running with those big drivers but tiny cylinders and low capacity boilers kept them from going too fast for very long. Also limiting their potential was the skinny firebox (and low heating surface) stuck between the frame rails inside of the wheels.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.