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Author Topic: So, What would have happened if the South won the Civil War Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-05-2004 07:00 AM                        Oh, sorry. I didn't know Redneck was that derogatory a name. The whole Wehrmacht conspiracy story is massively complicated. Basically, it has to be understood that most of the officers were old nobility. As such they were nationalist conservatives, but not necessarily Nazis. In fact, most of them kept a considerable distance to the party. But they liked that Hitler rebuilt the army, of course. Because Hitler knew that he could only rely on officer circles for as long as he acted in what they considered was the nation's interest, the SS was built up as a kind of party army. Most of the personalities mentioned above were in the SS. Dictatorships always develop that kind of inner dynamic because there are a lot of people who rise to high positions and don't like to give up their priviledges. That is why the officers did not want to simply get rid of Hitler - they did not want a civil war - and put their feelers out (as early as 1938 I think) to see how surrounding countries would react if they overthrew the NS regime. But especially the British prime minister was too afraid of Hitler to react to their plans, and so the war went ahead.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-05-2004 09:35 AM                     Darren, While thats undoubtly where the name "Redneck" came from I think in most places in the U.S. you will find a very different situation and meaning used for the term today. Mark  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 08-05-2004 02:21 PM                     quote: Michael Gonzalez The alternate history that I would worry about is what if Hitler had gotten ahold of the Holy Grail instead of Indy? Actually, according to Dr. Henry Jones Sr."If the Nazis win, the armies of darkness will march all over the face of the Earth." Sounds pretty scary... AJG  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-05-2004 07:21 PM                        I never quite understood that. Doesn't the Grail just give you eternal life, and that's it? The knight who had it was very old, but not exactly very powerful.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-05-2004 09:22 PM                        quote: Michael Schaffer I never quite understood that. Doesn't the Grail just give you eternal life, and that's it? The knight who had it was very old, but not exactly very powerful. I guess the idea was that those faithful to Hitler would drink of the Holy Grail, and be invincible. Little did they know the cup could not leave the hiding place guarded by the Knight. Of course, those seeking eternal life could have come to drink of the cup there, but I recall they had to stay there to live forever. "Choose Wisely"  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-06-2004 06:21 AM                        Apparently the Grail also worked outside the chamber where it was kept, because it could cure Indiana's father. It looks like the only restrictions was that they didn't want it to be taken anywhere else. That caused the earthquake. But if they hadn't dropped it and just run out, they could have taken it away. But too late now.  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-06-2004 04:41 PM                     Alternative history, simply put, is not history at all. Historians deal with "what was", not "what might have been". When you deal with the "what if", you have left the realm of non-fiction, and anyone's point of view is just as valid as the next person's. At least that's the point of view from this old history teacher.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Mehocic Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 804 From: New Castle, PA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-06-2004 10:56 PM                     John's assessment of "alternative history" is absolutely correct. However, as the originator of this thread I'd like to explain that the reason why I am in search of the Life article is simply because I'm looking for primary source materials examining American reactions to Communism during the Red Scare. I'd like to compile this information and lecture on it this Fall at the college. Its a little crazy - yes, but as I said in the original post, according to the article the fight against Communism wold have supposedly reunited the nation. I'm not bringing up the Civil War to chide southerners into "na-na-na we won" or to piss anybody else off for that matter. Hell you should read the 1959 piece from Pravda reprinted in Boy's Life trying to prove that Boy Scouts are demolitions experts bent on destroying the Soviet infrastructure (trust me . . . freekin' hilarious!). I would like to offer a few insights into the discussion thus far, though. Robb brought up some of Mark Nesbit's work in his post. This guy is most famous for his Ghosts of Gettysburg series. Entertaining reading, but too comercialized. I visit Gettysburg every year and know the battlefield fairly well. It seems most people want to hear the ghost bullshit when they're down there and have minimal understanding of the battle, the conditions, or even the terrain. Also, I believe it was Darren's comment on Reconstruction that got me thinking. It took the South over 75 years to be reintroduced to the mainstream in America following the conflict. I argue in my Modern America class that the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) was the opening action by the Federal Government in letting bygones be bygones. That was in 1933. World War II and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 were also important actions as well. Yet, Darren is right in the end when he says some parts of the South have still to fully 100% recover. Absolutely remarkable when one thinks about it. Well I hope we can keep this thread open and nobody gets mad. I'm still hoping to find the article (the initial reason for posting). C'mon, somebody's booth has to have a stack of Life magazines going back half a century. Please ...  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-07-2004 01:32 PM                     Aaron- Interesting point you bring up about the TVA. It occurred to me that another area of Federal Government overtures to the South would be in the area of military bases. In part, that would be due to the backlash of Reconstruction and the revialization of the Democratic Party in forming "safe" congressional districts that built seniority and influence in Congress in the 20th century. Now that would be an interesting study. Ironic, too, as the South had the richer military tradition, both before and after the Civil War. Sorry I can't help you with those old Life magazines.  |  IP: Logged

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