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Author Topic: Mini DV vs. DVD for public screening Wolff King Morrow Master Film Handler Posts: 490 From: Denton, TX, USA Registered: Feb 2004 posted 09-07-2004 08:04 PM                        Looks like the street price in the US is going around $650 for it.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-07-2004 08:10 PM                     That's not worth it to me. I'd rather buy two of the Vinc units and have one sitting on a shelf (or on standby in the rack) as a backup and still save money. The DVI output is the big thing anyway.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-07-2004 08:33 PM                     It really depends on your application Brad. DVI is nearly worthless for most of my installs. Region-free, reliable and RS-232 controllable are big features (not to mention the included rack mount). Believe it or not, the fact that it will output both Composite and Component at the same time is a big plus since that allows a preview monitor for cueing up witout hampering the high-quality display feed. In the home, I could definately see the Vic, especailly if your display device has a DVI port. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-07-2004 09:25 PM                     I also stay away from Crestline / AMX type of products as a general rule, so that's probably a big part of it as well.  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 09-07-2004 09:54 PM                     If anyone is looking for a cheap multi region player that does pal great, check at the Daewoo 9200 at Target for $49. It's progressive player I guess, but I have a regular tv and just use it for some Pal horror imports, and so far it plays them great.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-07-2004 10:26 PM                        Verbatim media, BTW, is THE media. I've never had any problems with any of their media. In fact, they are often the ones who design the manufacturing processes that others use to manufacture media.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-08-2004 02:28 AM                        quote: Stephen Furley If creating a disc for a cinema style screening, keep it simple, avoid multiple titles, menus and any other features that you won't use for such a screening. I don't normally create any menus at all. If it's a continuous programme I'd stick 5 seconds of black on the front of the MPEG stream (to give the projectionist time to pause it after the disc has loaded) and set that stream as the 'first play' item. Only if two different programmes need to be played at different stages in the show would I create a menu: and that would simply have 'click here to play this item' icons. Point taken about digibeta being vastly superior: but sadly, we're simply not in a position to subsidise individual shows with one-off kit hire unless either the venue is willing to do it or we can secure external funding, neither of which applies in this case. As for DVD media, I generally use TDK or Verbatim as 'full price' options, and haven't had a failure yet - including one which I once put on a table next to a computer temporarily (reading side up), wondered what the hell had happened to it and discovered two hours later that the cat had sat on top of it and gone to sleep.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-08-2004 04:28 AM                     Brad it is near impossible to stay away from Crestron or AMX when doing serious automated rooms with video. Most matrix video switchers are near unusable without some sort of controller. With a Crestron or AMX...it is one-button shopping to have any device play out of any device. For a movie theatre, the are not needed, however. Even the video systems for theatres are relatively simple. Then again, the AFI/Silver would be impossible to run without its Crestron system...then again, it isn't the typical movie theatre. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-08-2004 06:42 AM                     Sorry Steve, I've seen too many failures and too much poor programming on AMX/Crestron's part to give them another chance unless there was absolutely no other way to make it work. I've done some fairly complicated multi format setups and believe me, you CAN find another way to do just about everything that is 100% reliable all of the time and doesn't require an AMX/Crestron tech to repair. Simple is better. Daryl, I've never even seen Vertabim DVD-Rs. I have also never made a coaster out of Ritek or Pioneer media, nor have I found a DVD player that wasn't happy playing it. Are the Verbatims supposed to have a longer shelf life?  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-08-2004 11:06 AM                     Brad, I have no doubt that you and Joe have had wonderful experiences with your cameras and tapes. That is wonderful news and I hope you guys continue to enjoy success. I would simply attribute your success and Joe's to luck-of-the-draw and, perhaps, comparatively limited experience with the format. Based on my experience shooting well over 200 hours of footage and producing 2 features, 2 documentaries, 2 concerts, about a dozen commercials and over 20 hours of television product... 1. Data dropouts right out of the camera. 2. Data dropouts over time. In other words the tape *was* perfect a year ago and now it won't playback. (Sometimes if you have enough machines you might get lucky and find one that will playback.) 3. Inability to play certain tapes in certain machines, which is why I would not rely on DV tape as the principal medium for an important screening. These problems are not unique to my experience nor are they "user failure" problems. The DV format has opened many doors for independent producers and is definitely a "good thing." But the truth is that it is an imperfect format. My negative experiences have been shared by others. In addition, it is widely known that you cannot record in LP mode and expect other machines to playback -- this is actually printed in instruction manuals. That is a serious flaw in the design of the format; any miniDV tape should playback in any unit bearing the miniDV logo regardless of tape speed. Added to which, the tape and cassette are teenie-tiny making them (and the data) VERY susceptible to damage. I have used miniDV media by Sony and Panasonic. Both cameras are Canon GL-1. I also have a Sony GVD300 deck. Most times everything works fine but certainly not 100% of the time. I owned an XL-1 initially but then sold it after comparing the image between it and the GL-1. To my eye, the GL-1 produces a better image. Right now I'm in college but I will be capturing direct-to-disk when I start producing again. [ 09-08-2004, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-08-2004 12:57 PM                        The only reason we use Mini DV at all is that a significant number of people who license archive footage from us ask for it in that format. They are mostly working on non-profit projects (e.g. museums making videos for sale in their gift shops, that sort of thing) or corporate videos. Digibeta is our principal format, and the one we would always 'proactively' telecine to - i.e. if we anticipate that film material we acquire will see significant use on video and therefore decide to transfer it in advance of a specific access request. We'd copy from the digibeta to Mini DV on request, or for more rarely used film material we'd telecine direct to Mini DV. We certainly don't treat Mini DV as a preservation medium unless the content was originated on this format. In any other scenario it's for access only. Agreed with Manny that the cassettes are very fragile and flimsy, and I always feel a sigh of relief when one threads successfully after inserting it in a VTR.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-08-2004 03:05 PM                     Manny, I've heard those horror stories over and over about the DV format. I was only stating that Joe and I have yet to see it happen (and yes my fingers are crossed. ) Just for kicks, I took a DV tape backup of that Omni video tour that was edited on Joe's computer back in 2000 out and tried to play it today. No problems at all. Recorded on his XL1, played back on my DVX100. (I still keep "data" backups on hard drive and DVD media though, because I don't trust the tapes for archival purposes.) We're just lucky people.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-08-2004 05:44 PM                     DV stands for Damaged Video. Compressed, and croma bandwidth limited.  |  IP: Logged Evans A Criswell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1579 From: Huntsville, AL, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 09-13-2004 01:49 PM                        Yup Chroma bandwidth limited. If everything else were equal between DVD and DV, your choice is: Both formats throw away 75 percent of the color. Do you want 50 percent thrown away in the vertical direction and 50 percent thrown away in the horizontal direction? If so, go with DVD. Do you want 75 percent thrown away in the horizontal direction? If so, go with DV.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-13-2004 02:08 PM                        All the material being shown is b/w, so thankfully that isn't an issue. I've arranged to visit the place in a fortnight's time and play around - I'll let you know what gives. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  |  IP: Logged

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