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Author Topic: Cinerama on History Channel Gordon Bachlund Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 696 From: Monrovia, CA, USA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 11-25-2004 09:39 AM                        An unfortunate sidebar claimed that the "flicker" in silent films results from running them at 24fps. And not a word about theatre organs. Perhaps it should be called the Revisionist History Channel.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 11-25-2004 09:55 AM                     In addition to what has already been posted. The show also said that Kodak invented 35mm motion picture film. Actually, while Kodak invented the film material, they did not invent 35mm motion picture film. Edison bought it in huge sheets from Kodak and cut it into 35mm strips and perf'd it. In fact, Edison held the patent on 35mm wide, 4 perfs for frame. Later, Kodak manufactured the film for Edision cut and perf'd. The show acknowledged that the "first projected motion picture for a paying audience" was in 1895, they did so in the section about the Lumiere company. In fact, that first 1895 screening took place in New York City by the Latham brothers, in 70mm (in an attempt to get around Edision's 35mm patent). While it is true that the Lumiere's built a successfull company that exists in some form to this day, and the Latham brothers were out of buisness by 1900, the Latham's were first. The Latham brothers are most notable for inventing (and patenting) the upper and lower loops that projectors have to this day. The show also said that carbon arc was replaced by Xenon in the 1950's. Actually, carbon arc was alive and well into the early 1970's. The show said IB Technicolor was not sharp. Just not true, and it did not fade like Eastman color. I have personally seen both nitrate and safty IB Technicolor projected, and when processed correctly was razor sharp. The show implied that sync'ing Vitaphone discs with the picture was a matter of hit and miss. Not so. The disks had a clear start point, and the turntable was connected to the projector by gears (not belts).  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-25-2004 10:28 AM                     More additions to the list... Three-strip Technicolor...red, blue, and yellow? In the half-awake state I was in when I watched the show I thought they meant green instead of yellow, but now I realize they possibly didn't want viewers to run for the dictionary by saying, accurately, magenta, cyan, and yellow. What, no Cinema Digital Sound? Despite its fatal shortcomings, it, after all, was the first digital film sound format released to the public.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-25-2004 12:07 PM                     Hi gang I just reported what the program contents generally were, without interjecting my two cents. And yes, I think it left a lot to be desired! There is one film historian and historic collector that I know of who's museum would have been perfect for this show! Anyhow, in reality, theatres were concerned about the impending threat of television as early as 1929. There is an article in the Arizona Daily Star regarding this topic that was printed with the opening of the Tucson Fox Theatre (Fox West Coast Theatres) in 1929. No mention was made of early wide screen attempts, such as Simplex Grandeur. No mention was made of Vista Vision, 3-D and other innovations. The individual who was describing the "operation" of the Century C/RCA 9030 combination was absolutly clueless. He pointed to that rink-a-dink lamphouse, said that this is the type of carbon arc used until the '70's and that it had been converted to xenon. He basically pinted at different parts and said here is where the film comes in, exits, here is the lens and here is the sound. With the exception of Cinerama,which was pretty good considering, the program left a lot to be desired.  |  IP: Logged Mike Spaeth Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1129 From: Marietta, GA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-25-2004 02:55 PM                        C'mon guys ... this was a one-hour program for the average person. Of course, they are going to leave things out. It's damn near impossible to cover everything in that amount of time. Just like any other similar show, they presented the important aspects of motion picture projection throughout history, and in good terms that the average person (not involved with the industry) could understand.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-25-2004 04:34 PM                    Of course they have to be brief. They could be accurate though. I would suppose this is with all their topics. We tend to think of the typical show like Modern Marvels as giving an accurate if cursory look at a topic. Yet maybe for those who are experts in the field being covered they also cringe at all the errors. Check newsgroup rec.arts.movies.tech for more dissection of the program. I told Marty Hart (who appeared in the show) that at least the evening might be saved by the toilet & bathroom episode that appeared later.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-25-2004 08:46 PM                       Yes, they have to keep things on a fairly uncomplicated level for their audience. It also has to move, as in, progress the story. When's this show going to be back on? Are they having a weekend repeat, maybe?  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-25-2004 10:27 PM                     Yes, this show had to be brief due to the fact that at least 1/2 of an 1 hr. show today is advertisment commericials! But this is not an excuse for a lack of accuracy. For example, this film historian that they interviewed, Jan Christopher Horak, seemed to be clueless as to how a projector works. Darryl Spicer pointed this out in his post (the guy pointing to the upper pad roller and sprocket). Seeing as how they used anamation to describe sound, they could have shown the intermittent anamation in the FT manuals section. There is at least one collector that I know of who could've given them a practical demo of silent ops...including live music. I am unsure of this accuracy, but they stated that Fantasia was origonally recorded using 9 tracks. That stereo release was limited to two theatres, one being in New York, and that the stereo effect had to be manually manipulated by a projectionist sound tech during the show.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 11-26-2004 01:23 PM                     I'd like to see a Cinerama movie with a big yellow "H" in the lower-right corner  |  IP: Logged William Leland III Master Film Handler Posts: 336 From: Charleston, SC, Registered: Aug 2002 posted 11-26-2004 02:35 PM                        i watched it and i thought it sucked, about 25 minutes was devoted to silent films and the introduction of color. the last 10 minutes talked about imax and the future of film, the rest was fluff. it talked nothing about change-over houses or the modern projector. i reel let down. i thought from the TV ads it was about the modern era of projection and multiplex's, but they covered it in 10 minutes. overall it sucked.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 11-26-2004 03:58 PM                     I agree, while the show could not include everything, what was included should have at least been accurate. The History Channel could have taken a $1.50 subway ride (PATH Train) from their corporate offices in Manhattan to Journal Square in Jersey City and seen a surviving Loews Wonder Theatre that is still running carbon arc's (Ashcroft Super-Coreless), and has a working Simplex Standard (with front shutter) along with a working Vitaphone Platter. We would have been happy to show them how it works. /Mitchell  |  IP: Logged Gordon Bachlund Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 696 From: Monrovia, CA, USA Registered: Aug 1999 posted 11-26-2004 05:30 PM                        As for “Fantasia,” the original Fantasound systems were installed in only two theatres, the Broadway in New York and the Carthay Circle in Los Angeles. These systems featured 54 speakers and utlized, in addition to the full-mix backup track on the picture film, a separate synchronized 35mm film with four optical sound tracks (control, screen left, screen center and screen right) that afforded also derived house left, center and right channels, the equivalent of today’s surround channels. However, road show engagements of “Fantasia” were accommodated by eight portable sets of road show sound equipment that afforded only three discrete front channels, orchestra, choruses and soloists. Not bad for 1940!  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 11-26-2004 06:17 PM                  In unrelated news: The Science Channel has been running an hour-long behind-the-scenes look at IMAX and Iwerks theatres, projection systems, and simulator-ride motion bases. Ahhhem... Some of which I designed and built. The show is part of the "Building The Ultimate" series entitled "Extreme Screens". A well done and informative show that actually shows the 1570 rolling-loop and 870 conventional Geneva-type projectors, motion bases, and giant screens. >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-26-2004 08:18 PM                     Sounds interesting, Phil, but kind of a bummer if you don't have digital cable... I object to having to rent a converter box for each TV set in the house, and a separate box for the VCR or DVD recorder, in order to get digital cable. What a pricey pain in the ass!  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 11-28-2004 06:24 PM                     The History Channel presentation included interviews with this so-called "film historian" named Jan-Christopher Horack, who had as much knowledge about motion picture projection as say an uneducated/illiterate ditch digger would have about brain surgery! Anyhow,THC claimed that digital cinema will present images that are superior to film, in that they will never fade, scratch or tear. Obviously, they are not familiar with todays film-stocks. This Horack guy stated that the Powers was the initial industry workhorse (for 10 years), and made no mention of Simplex, or the major contributations this company made to cinema. Neither did they mention Century, Strong, Motiograph, RCA, etc, et. Horack also stated that carbon-arc was directly responsible for nitrate fires, and insuniated that fires are not possible via xenon lighting systems. Furthermore, he did not mention any of the fire prevention devices installed in theatres, and stated that nitrate fires resulted in the entire theatre becomming a death trap for anyone in the building. Horack also stated that carbon arc was only used until the 1950's, when it was replaced by xenon. No mention of theatre organs was mentioned in this show. Instead, it was stated that music was provided by pianos and small bands or major orchestras. It was also stated that the introduction of television in 1948 was a major threat to theatres, when in fact the television threat went as far back as 1929 or earlier. They did give the dates of 1917-1930 for 2 strip technicolor and 1930 for 3 strip technicolor, and stated that color is what drew audiences back into theatres over television. THey also mentioned somenting about 7 channel mag-strip. Horack gave the date of 26 Dec. 1895 as the 1'st public screening of a motion picture to a paying audience.  |  IP: Logged

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