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Topic: Indiana Jones - Episode IV: Attack of the Clones

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-16-2005 08:26 AM

You don't see garbage mattes today because they don't use model spaceships anymore. They use stuff designed in "Jr's First 3D Program" for Windows ME.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 06-16-2005 12:38 PM

Wow! That sounds cool! Where can I get a copy of THAT program? [Big Grin]

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-16-2005 02:24 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
You don't see garbage mattes today because they don't use model spaceships anymore.

Composites don't always involve miniatures. You don't see garbage mattes today because technology has evolved, not because they aren't there. It's impractical, for example, to fill the frame with a 75ft. blue screen, when you only need a matte pulled around someone's body. You cover what you need and the rest is easily garbaged out.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 06-22-2005 12:07 AM

quote: Tim Reed
For example, the blue screen work in the first "Star Wars" was well below the quality of today's work

But it was at least equal (and in many ways better than) the quality of all other work being done at that time. That has not been the case so far with Lucas' digital cinema efforts.

There is a difference between letting technology evolve when it needs to, and using it before it's ready merely because it's new.

[ 06-22-2005, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: Aaron Haney ]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-22-2005 12:46 AM

Instead of the odd garbage matte or shimmering edge with analog-based visuals, we get garbage looking CGI characters today.

I got some good laughs from those sharks in "Deep Blue Sea." They're every bit as fake looking as the "Bruce the Shark" rig in Jaws. The difference is those fake looking CGI sharks had a lot more screen time. The anatomy didn't even look right on those CGI fish. All of it is topped off with fake looking waves and other badly done CGI elements. I think if the cartoon Don Knotts Disney fish swam into the scene it would have actually lifted the film in terms of quality level.

Even when the crew is working feverishly hard on a pioneering CGI sequence, the finished result can still wind up less than digitally perfect. Take "Jurassic Park" for instance. An odd color shift happens on the entire image as the T-Rex roars and starts to chase Jeff Goldblum. It looks like a color profile mismatch between the film element and the rendered CGI. I'm surprised the glitch has been left intact and still plainly visible on the DVD. I thought Universal would have color corrected it by now.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-22-2005 03:25 AM

Off topic a bit: Isn't the DTS DVD of Jurassic Park supposed to have pathetic subwoofer levels or something odd?

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 06-22-2005 03:32 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
I got some good laughs from those sharks in "Deep Blue Sea." They're every bit as fake looking as the "Bruce the Shark" rig in Jaws.

Are you saying the shark in Jaws was fake? Great. Thanks for destroying the illusion for me.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-23-2005 03:34 PM

quote: Aaron Haney
There is a difference between letting technology evolve when it needs to, and using it before it's ready merely because it's new.

Catch-22. It won't evolve if no one is using it.

FWIW, I just heard from a friend on the set of the new Miami Vice movie that it is being shot digitally. They did some tests and weren't happy with anything Sony/Panavision had. They were considering just going with 35mm until they tested the Viper FilmStream™ system from Thompson/Grass Valley (which Michael Mann had previously used on "Collateral"). My friend said it looks fantastic.

Digital's coming, guys. You don't have to like it, but all the squawking in the world ain't gonna stop it.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 06-28-2005 10:12 AM

I don't want to stop it. I just don't want it to look like ass.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-28-2005 11:13 AM

Digital Cinema has come a long way in six years:

http://www.kodak.com/go/dcinema

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/digital/featurePresentations.jhtml

quote:
Secure content arrives from KODAK Digital Cinema Services (our network operations center) — or other content preparation sources — on DVD-ROM, hard disk drive or, in the future, via satellite. Feature movie files arrive "encrypted" to prevent piracy, and "compressed" to reduce data-file size and make distribution more efficient.

The feature presentation, on hard disk drive or DVD-ROM, is inserted directly into the KODAK CineServer. In the server, it's automatically decrypted, decompressed, and sent to a feature-quality (up to 2K) projector for each auditorium.In this mode, the KODAK Digital Cinema Content Manager handles scheduling via its connection to the ticketing system.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050622/225549.html?.v=1

quote:
Two Leading Digital Cinema Companies - Kodak and Barco - Forge Strategic Alliance to Serve the Worldwide Digital Cinema Market
Wednesday June 22, 12:00 pm ET
Kodak's Expertise in Color Science and Imaging and Barco's Leadership in Digital Cinema Projection Systems Come Together to Create Integrated Solutions for the Digital Cinema Market

LOS ANGELES & BRUSSELS, Belgium--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 22, 2005-- Eastman Kodak Company and Barco announced today they have formed a strategic alliance to more effectively serve the worldwide digital cinema market with a full menu of products, systems, and services, including installation and support.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 06-28-2005 12:35 PM

So does this mean that Kodak has given up on 4k and that 2k will likely be the de facto D-cinema standard?

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 06-28-2005 02:56 PM

If you want something big to happen in this industry, there is only one thing to remember: "Evolutionary not revolutionary."

Color, Dolby, Digital audio, scope, etc all meet this requirement. 70mm (as much as I like it) does not. That is why it is "dead."

It looks to me that Digital television is revolutionary.

'nuff said.

Louis

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-28-2005 05:00 PM

If 2K is plenty good enough for John and Kodak, then it should be good enough for the rest of us! Pretty soon Kodak will be an all digital company, as very few people will need film ever again. It's coming!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-28-2005 05:52 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
It looks to me that Digital television is revolutionary.

The trouble is most people will prefer to watch HD quality "digital cinema" at home. They will especially prefer to do so when their home systems will match the image detail of the "D-Cinema" versions pixel for pixel. "1080P" HDTV systems are now hitting the market. Despite the impending format war, we will have an HD-quality video disc system sometime soon. The ever-increasing power of computer technology will make HD quality video commonplace on computer desktops as well.

And that will help create another revolution: the death of the commercial theater model for releasing movies. With the just good enough to get by quality of 2K, it will help change the entire movie business to a straight-to-video model.

Theaters will have little to no exclusivity on keeping people in movie theaters if everything just goes to 2K HDTV quality on both production and presentation. It's not enough to just say "the screen is bigger" or "we have an audience here." With the premium it now costs a family to see a movie once at a theater versus buying a DVD or just renting it, a theater's advantages outside of presentation quality ring too hollow.

quote: Joe Redifer
Off topic a bit: Isn't the DTS DVD of Jurassic Park supposed to have pathetic subwoofer levels or something odd?

Yes, the sub-bass levels on the original DTS DVD release of "Jurassic Park" had really weak sub-bass. Unless you had a really high end subwoofer you wouldn't get much thump without cranking the levels. Universal has since fixed this. They offered a free trade in for the new version. I sent off for it and the "fixed" version does sound better --much closer to the system punishing DTS Laserdisc.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 06-28-2005 06:27 PM

Still off topic: I ask about Jurassic Park because my mom wanted to watch her DVD of it on my system, which she rarely ever has the opportunity to do, but she does appreciate good sound and widescreen and all that crap. She had the DTS only version of the DVD (which has a stereo Dolby Digital track). While she watched it, I was in another room on the other end of the house and the entire place was shaking like crazy. The mouse to my computer was rattling around, doors were shaking, it was pretty cool. I was wondering if perhaps it had too much subwoofer. But I take it that she didn't get the defective disc. Now I'm gonna have to borrow it from her to watch it. I didn't want to watch it because I had just watched my DTS LaserDisc a few weeks earlier, using the ZOOM mode on my TV and it was very grainy, as LaserDiscs tend to be.

What all this has to do with Indiana Jones: Attack of the Clones is beyond me. [Smile]

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