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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Sony puts malware on its music CDs. (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Sony puts malware on its music CDs.
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 11-10-2005 01:05 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK this one is for you golden ears out there. Download this 11.3 MB ZIP file.

Decompress and you will find 5 test wavs. They are all about 12-15 seconds of the same exact tune. 3 of them are direct digital rips from the CD, which was recorded "DDD" for those of you who know what that means. 1 of the files is an analog rip, played from an external CD player and recorded via the analog cables into a computer. 1 of the files is a mix of digital and analog where it starts out as digital, hard cuts (no crossfades) to analog and then hard cuts back to digital. The length of the files has nothing to do with anything.

So tell me which is digital, which is analog, and which is a mix :

test1.wav = ?
test2.wav = ?
test3.wav = ?
test4.wav = ?
test5.wav = ?

Can you hear (not 'scope, you ass) a generation loss anywhere? I will post the answers soon. Good luck!

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

- posted 11-10-2005 02:33 AM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bruce Hansen
Copyright law says that I have the right to make a copy for my own use. So, isn't this Sony crap a violation of copyright law?
You may have the right to make the copy, but Sony doesn't have to make it easy. I have the right to copy my dvds too, but there's copy protection schemes there too. I have the right to copy a book that I own, but the publisher doesn't have to hand me a pdf file that I can print from. Theres nothing stoping you from making all of the analog copies that you want.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 11-10-2005 03:44 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll try this one and see what happens:

1-digital
2-digital
3-digital
4-mix
5-analog

All done 141Kbps @ 44mHz

-Monte

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 11-10-2005 04:09 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmmm... nope.

Also, they're just a little bit more than 141kbps, and no, they are not 44mhz. [Razz]

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 11-10-2005 04:54 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...worth a try anywho...yet, it was interesting, in as well as fun.

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Paul Trimboli
Master Film Handler

Posts: 274
From: Perth Western Australia
Registered: Dec 2002

- posted 11-10-2005 05:08 AM      Profile for Paul Trimboli   Email Paul Trimboli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm- They are all the same?

That is a bit of a hard one, the music does not lend itself to hearing slight quality change. I am not sure how well tuned my ears are, I like to think I am pretty good when it comes to audio.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 11-10-2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I heard definite differences in quality - differences between brightness and "muddy" quality.

I was using the latest version of Winamp.

-monte

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 11-10-2005 02:15 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I want to give a hint, but you shouldn't need it. You should hear 3 that sound exactly the same and determine which are digital just by that. Then the two that are left have some analog about them. Determine which starts out sparkling digital clear and then transitions to muddy, generation-loss analog which is unbearable to listen to and then back to sparkling clear digital perfection again. That is the mix. The last one is the analog one by default.

It is interesting what Monte heard as "muddy". But the music does have a lot of high frequencies where generation loss would most likely be heard.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 11-10-2005 05:08 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is a way you should be able to make a digital copy of a CD with the Sony crap on it. If you have a stand alone CD recorder, and a CD player with a digital output, connect the digital out of the player to the digital in of the recorder. This way you can make a digital copy, without copying the Sony crap. Now you have a CD that can be put in any computer without fear of the Sony crap screwing with your computer, and you can make as many copies as you want of this new disc.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 11-10-2005 06:23 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know you could skip all the making copies crap and just not let the software install itself.

Just one of many, many reasons why you shouldn't be using a privileged account for non-privileged tasks. If you're logged in as a restricted user, like you should be, the software won't be able to install itself.

I wonder how long it'll take for someone to launch a class action suit. I know installing software without consent AND without providing a means to fully remove it, is illegal in Canada, the US and the UK.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

- posted 11-10-2005 06:51 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As with all of these anti-copying systems, spyware and so on, Sony probably knows full well that anyone with relatively advanced IT skills will circumvent this sort of thing using either Daryl's or Bruce's method (or even copying the CD using a computer which runs an operating system other than Windows). But they also know that 99.99% of consumers are IT illiterate, and that most will end up with the malware on their PCs without knowing anything about it.

The software and entertainment industries worked out long ago that it simply isn't worth the investment needed to develop protection systems that will stop people who know what they're doing. Another example: it will take you about 10 seconds on Google to download software which will copy a DVD, stripping out CSS and/or Macrovision in the process. Both the Digital Millenium Copyright Act and the European Union Copyright Directive make it illegal for consumers to actually use it: so presumably the intention is to use those laws against anyone who does so on a significant scale and for profit.

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Kyle McEachern
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 165
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted 11-10-2005 09:55 PM      Profile for Kyle McEachern         Edit/Delete Post 
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/16f8bba2-5219-11da-9ca0-0000779e2340.html

quote:
Sony BMG Music Entertainment, the world’s second largest music label, faces a slew of lawsuits in the US after PC security companies found that copy protection software included on some CDs made PCs vulnerable to hackers.

At least three lawsuits have been filed in California against the company, a joint venture between Japan’s Sony group and Germany’s Bertelsmann.

...

On Thursday Sophos claimed it had found the first “trojan” e-mail virus designed to exploit secret “rootkit” software that a number of Sony BMG music CDs install on owners’ computers when they are played.

This week the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a US-based consumer advocacy group, identified at least 19 Sony BMG music CDs that it claimed installed the software when played on a PC.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 11-10-2005 11:03 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
test1.wav = ?
test2.wav = ?
test3.wav = ?
test4.wav = ?
test5.wav = ?
They all sound pretty much the same to me. But I'm also playing them on a laptop computer with tinny speakers. Tried some Sony headphones, which yielded quite a bit more detail. But still all the audio sounds very much the same.

"test2.wav" is the only one that has a hint of a bit more muddiness to it, but then I could just be imagining it. You sure this isn't some kind of a trick (such as all the tracks actually being the same)?

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted 11-11-2005 12:03 AM      Profile for David Buckley   Author's Homepage   Email David Buckley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That was unexpectedly really really hard, and I'm listening through reasonable equipment, SWG1000 sound card, Naim amp, Mission speakers. Mind you, my ears are a bit shot due to excessive rock and roll as a youth...

Anyway, the only thing I think I can hear is a change in the snare drum "airyness" about 4.something seconds into track four. So my guess would be thats the mix track. The others I cant tell apart.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 11-11-2005 12:58 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby, no tricks. That wouldn't be any fun.

David, nope, but good guess. I will post the answers tomorrow if I am not too damned lazy.

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