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Topic: Audio Teen Repellant

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-01-2005 08:16 AM

quote: Dan Lyons
Even if a tv set is on in another room with the volume muted, I can hear it whining! I've noticed that I can hear this with all tv sets, new or old.

Same here. If I'm home sometimes I leave the TV on and leave for work (black screen because I was watching a DVD). Then when I get home, I hear it immediately and think "DOH!!" I guess I don't hear it when I leave because I've been hearing it for an hour so I probably tune it out.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2005 10:09 AM

quote: Steve Guttag
When I was in college, I had to leave a lecture hall due to the horrible whine comnig from the monitors that were just showing black...it was truely painful.

Indeed, there was one lecture hall at the university I went to where taking a couple of classes in there I quickly realized that I had little chance of learning anything in there because the stupid video projector's whine was so incredibly loud and distracting. Many students pointed it out to the professor, who insisted that there was no noise and would not even bother trying to figure out how to turn off the projector (which foolishly ran 24 hours a day).

As far as this idea of a high pitched noise for loiters, I can still clearly hear the whine of a tv set at 35, so it's hardly a "teen" repellant. When I needed my ushers to clean the auditoriums faster, I simply put on a Carpenters CD and they would work twice as fast to get out of there. So if Barry Manilow doesn't do the trick, try the Carpenters!

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Matt Barth
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Albuquerque, NM 87109
Registered: Oct 2005

posted 12-01-2005 11:49 AM

I'd love to see that guy get sued for damaging the kids' ears. Then again I suppose that's my American liberalism at work.

---Matt (can't stand leaving the TV on in another room)

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 12-01-2005 12:19 PM

NTSC H rate is 15,734.26 Hz (at least for that flavor of NTSC that uses 3,579,545 Hz as its color subcarrier frequency). [Big Grin]

Yes, those flyback transformers can really sing.

At age 50 I can still just barely make that out. Never was annoying to me though. Can still hear incandescent bulb filaments though, especially when they are being dimmed by SCRs or triacs. It's another reason I don't like to leave the house lights at a glow during features. The students in my school's anime club complain if we do that in our screening room.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2005 12:46 PM

I can hear TVs whine if I listen for it, but never has it bothered me. If I sit in a room with nothing going on and listen, I can hear ringing in my ears which is ALWAYS there. I think it is for everybody, at varying levels. It doesn't really bother me.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 12-01-2005 04:53 PM

Women keep their 12 year-old hearing until age 60. Men are 50 db down at 5k by the time they are 50. I am not sure a program to reduce or eliminate this is desireable since it is related to male hormones and pbberty. Louis

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-02-2005 01:40 AM

quote: Paul Trimboli
What is the best way to preserve my hi end hearing? Aside from not listening to loud music and having proper ear protection when operating loud equipment?

As Daryl said, cryonics.

Presbycusis, literally, "old hearing".

Related for the cinema tech industry is presbyopia, the gradual reduction in acuity of eyesight in focusing the lens due to its growing rigidity as time passes, plus universal age-related reductions of perception of contrast, sesitivity to light, etc.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-02-2005 03:09 PM

I used to hear the horizontal scan frequency from the flyback (part of troubleshooting in television repair), but alas, no longer. Likewise, I used to be able to hear the ultrasonic detectors that used to trigger traffic lights.

quote: Paul Mayer
At age 50 I can still just barely make that out.

Paul: I assume pilots and others in noisy environments loose their HF response at an early age.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Women keep their 12 year-old hearing until age 60. Men are 50 db down at 5k by the time they are 50. I am not sure a program to reduce or eliminate this is desireable since it is related to male hormones and pbberty. Louis

Men: Keep your hearing, lose your ability to [sex]

. No thanks. [Eek!]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-02-2005 03:33 PM

quote: John Pytlak
I used to hear the horizontal scan frequency from the flyback (part of troubleshooting in television repair), but alas, no longer.

How about right when you engage the power to a CRT television, can you hear the high pitch start up then?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-02-2005 03:38 PM

You hear the sound when the horizontal oscillator started, which then also generated the high voltage for the CRT. In a tube set, the tubes had to warm up a few seconds before it happened. If you adjusted the "horizontal hold" control, you could hear the frequency change.

Sometimes when you turned on a old CRT set, you heard the "thump" of current in the power transformer, or the automatic degaussing coil.

Flybacks: "I miss the smell of ozone in the morning". [Wink]

(I don't miss the painful high voltage burns if I accidently got near the lead from the flyback tranformer to the cap of the high voltage rectifier tube (e.g., 1B3)).

(God, I'm old [Wink]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-02-2005 04:58 PM

1B3GT? Yes Pappa John, you are old. [Razz]

I thought most of the 15.734kHz (15.750KC, for you John) was emitted from the deflection coils. The higher the CRT deflection angle, the more power needed to deflect that beam thus more noise.

In the old CRT high-end studio monitors that didn't have a flyback for HV but used a separate supply, one could still hear the noise.

And yes, that "buzz" at turn-on of color CRT monitors/TVs is due to the initial high current applied to the degaussing coil which then tapers off.

(BTW: I have NO personal knowledge of this as I'm too young to know about such things and have only read about them in OLD books.)

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-02-2005 07:11 PM

In my experience, the sound came mostly from the flyback. Often, you could shim or pot the windings to quiet it somewhat.

I've dealt with 3A3's as well, in my "later" years.

I was 3 years old when "I Love Lucy" premiered on television. Here I am a year later:

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 12-03-2005 02:57 AM

Did that little boy ever dream he would become a film god? [Wink]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-03-2005 03:24 AM

I really want to see 70's John Pytlak wearing polyester pants.

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-03-2005 11:51 AM

from quoted article:

quote:
The results were almost instantaneous. It was as if someone had used anti-teenager spray around the entrance, the way you might spray your sofas to keep pets off. Where disaffected youths used to congregate, now there is no one.

Sounds to me like dialogue lines from Dr. Strangelove. [Frown]

Using classical music to drive away young people is certainly a perverted idea, maybe someone got the idea from seeing A CLOCKWORK ORANGE: (quotes from www.imdb.com)

quote:
Alex: No. No! NO! Stop it! Stop it, please! I beg you! This is sin! This is sin! This is sin! It's a sin, it's a sin, it's a sin!
Dr. Brodsky: Sin? What's all this about sin?
Alex: That! Using Ludwig van like that! He did no harm to anyone. Beethoven just wrote music!
Dr. Branom: Are you referring to the background score?
Alex: Yes.
Dr. Branom: You've heard Beethoven before?
Alex: Yes!
Dr. Brodsky: So, you're keen on music?
Alex: YES!
Dr. Brodsky: Can't be helped. Here's the punishment element perhaps

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