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Author Topic: "Star Wars" 3-D Re-Issue — Postponed? Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-28-2006 05:26 PM                        What makes any one think 3D will do more for the industry than it did in the 50s? How long did 3D last back then when it was a totally new experience for the moviegoer, before the public got totally bored with it? Three & a half, four years? And back then, they were watching NEW films, not half-baked re-treads, and even then they gave up on it. How many times does Lucas think he can rerun 30 year old stuff? We all love the first three, but that was a much different era; our expectations were different. Moviegoers today, when they put that the original SW up against what they expect to see in the way of special effects and slick filmmaking, most young moviegoers will find it quite dated, and 3D will not help that at all. As for the last 3 SW installments...not digital, not 3D, not even the video gods can help that pile-o- .  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-30-2006 02:23 AM                       What I don't comprehend is how they're taking a flat (i.e., 2D) image and generating a stereo pair out of it? This has got to look like the old 3D cartoons did in the 50s, where the animation cameraman just shifted the background slightly under the foreground cels, to make the second image. This results in a "shooting gallery" type of effect on the screen; nothing really looks dimensional, they only look like planes of flat images moving in relation to one another.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-30-2006 02:55 AM                        You're referring to the multiplane camera. It's truely a remarkable acheivement, at least for cartoons. It allows for them to have depth. However, with today's technology, it's uneccisary. Computers can composite the different layers much more effectively, and even apply special effects to make it more seamless. That said, I would not want a faux multiplane effect on my live action movies. I don't even want it in my cartoons, now that something better is out. I don't see how you can take a 2d image and make it 3d without cutting elements out of the back plane, and superimosing the in other planes in the 3d environment. Which as stated before, makes flat elements at different percieved distances. It'd look similar to taking carboard standees and moving them back and forth in front of a matt background. This would be amusing for the first 5, maybe 10, minutes before it'd get cheezy. If you're going to show a 3d movie, then film it in 3d to begin with. Heck, I'd be tempted to film in 3d as a default, and if you wanted to present it in 2d, you could simply discard the second images, but if you wanted 3d, you'd use both in whatever your preferred 3d format is.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-30-2006 01:23 PM                       quote: Charles Greenlee You're referring to the multiplane camera. No, I'm talking about the handful of 3D cartoons that were made (like Casper in Boo Moon, Ace of Space with Popeye, Bugs Bunny in Lumber Jack Rabbit and Woody Woodpecker in Hypnotic Hick ) which only employed a shifted background (i.e., panning on a standard animation stand) to create their Left/Right stereo pairs.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-31-2006 07:11 PM                        I gotcha. Still uses the multiplane camera.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-04-2006 03:51 AM                       Multiplane was Disney's alone. The titles I'm talking about were shot on normal animation stands - you can tell by watching them today. (You may be thinking of the camera mount itself, which rides up and down a prominent long vertical track, and which allows the camera to zoom or truck-in on the artwork.) One frame was photographed, the bg shifted slightly left or right, and another frame was photographed of the same cel stack. The bg was returned to the original position and the next cel(s) put under the platen and photographed. Then, the bg was shifted left or right again (as before) and the frame rephotographed. This created a faux L/R stereo pair, which was then skip-printed in the lab to separate the sequential L,R,L,R,L,R timing of the camera original. It was a very inexpensive way for the strapped cartoon units to make dimensional subjects with no additional equipment. The only other adjustment was in the X-sheet timing.  |  IP: Logged Mark Lensenmayer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1605 From: Upper Arlington, OH Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-04-2006 09:48 AM                     Tim is right...there is a big difference between the multiplane camera and a 3-D rig. The multiplane camera was a development by Disney studios to give a 2-D film the illusion of depth. The earliest case is in THE OLD MILL, a classic Disney cartoon from the 30's. I especially like its use in my favorite Disney cartoon TOOT, WHISTLE, PLUNK and BOOM, when the camera appears to move directly into the auditorium passed the usher. I believe Ub Iwerks had some hand in the development of this camera. The 3-D technique Tim is speaking of was, I believe, also used for 3-D comic books in the 50's. The characters would appear to be on distinct layers of depth, as opposed to a smooth 3-D transition. For example, if Superman was flying toward the audience, you would see his hands outstretched on the front layer, the torso on the next layer, and maybe part of the cape on another layer. It was a quick and dirty way to get depth from a 2-D image. Why does Superman fly with his arms outstretched anyway?  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2006 12:38 PM                        To keep the wind from messing up his super-hairdo.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-04-2006 03:03 PM                       quote: Mark Lensenmayer I believe Ub Iwerks had some hand in the development of this camera. You're absolutely right. When Iwerks was running his own studio in the early 30s, he came up with the multiple-level idea and built a prototype out of an old car frame, which he used to great advantage. When his studio subsequently closed and he returned to Disney's, he brought the Multiplane idea with him.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 08-05-2006 03:45 AM                        Ahh, I was thinking the multiplane would aloow for the effect alos, maybe with some modification it could facilitate a similar effect, and even allow you to pass amongst the 3d layout . But anyways enough with that. Yeah, I'd say if you think you may eventually want 3d, film in 3d to begin with, and just disregard the second perspective if you decide to go 2d. Who knows, you may want to dig up the secondary footage to do a 3d special edition later.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-05-2006 12:41 PM                        I think I've figured out the Star Wars strategy. Every "new" version of the movie is really just a way to re-sell the "original" version again. They brought out the new/improved version on DVD and sold tons of it, but now will sell tons of the "original" version that everyone wanted in the first place. Now they'll put out the 3-D version in theatres, claim that the original "no longer exists because this is now the definitive version," all the fans will flock to see it and hate it, and then a few years later the "classic" version will be released again. This scenario will be repeated with hi-def DVD once the 3-D angle is perfected. This cycle will continue until all Star Wars fans are dead.  |  IP: Logged

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