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Author Topic: Advice on Selling Old Radio Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-29-2006 11:54 PM                     I've actually got a thread going on antiqueradios.com already. One guy there, Dennis, says its a fairly common radio. I probably shouldn't put too much into it unless it's for my own gratification. I'm toying with an idea: What if I took the phonograph out and replaced it with a CD player? It'd only play back in mono, of course. I'd have to make a matching box to interface the phono cartridge input to the CD. But, wouldn't it be neat to open up the drawer where the phono used to be and find a CD? The thing isn't rare or expensive. Nobody plays 78 speed records anymore. Getting it to play CDs might even add to the value. I've still got a fair amount of homework to do before I decide to rewire and recap the thing. Yes, there are a couple of wax paper inductors inside there. I'll have to be careful of them. I don't think I need to get all the specially striped wire like you did. I could just use the standard stuff. Do I need to be super careful about getting the wires all back in their original paths? Some of them seem to be convoluted. Can I just rewire like they taught me in Tech School? Or, do I have to make sure that everythig is the way it was originally?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 12:06 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey Nobody plays 78 speed records anymore. I do on my wind up Victrola. Everyone that comes over HAS to hear it and there is some fascinating stuff out there on 78 records!! Some stuff is very valualable... 78 is cool dude . My Victrola sits next to my 1946 RCA Television. Mark  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 12:50 AM                     Okay. I stand corrected: "Nobody plays 78 records any more except Mark Gulbrandsen." But we don't have any 78s any more and it would probably cost too much money to get the phonograph working again. A cheap-o CD player and the matching box to interface it to the phono input would probaly cost less than fixing a turntable that would rarely, if ever, used again. Don't you think the novelty of being able to play CDs on WWII vintage audio equipment would make it a great conversation piece?  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-30-2006 03:35 AM                        I'd make it a modular snap in replacment for the cartridge. I wouldn't make it a mod to the unit itself. Also, regarding the tibes, and not remembering what pins were the filament and whatnot. If you remember, this varied from tube to tube and manufaturer to manufacturer. You can find datasheets for those tubes online that will tell you. I know I had to for some I have. Though, that may take some time to do, if you're radio has alot of tubes. Some of those manuals don't actually tell what pin goes to what, just the fact that Tube 2 is a 6EN4, and what other components it connects to. Some of those manuals can be that vague, yet some are very explicit. I don't know how well Zenith did their manuals back then.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-30-2006 06:27 AM                     Rand, You sound like you don't understand the true meaning of the "R" words. RESTORATION returning the item to its original condition using the same materials thus preserving its authenticity, an antique RENOVATION making an item into something other than originally intended, destroying the historic value for a new use I think the CD player idea is a renovation. Like in the movies where you can add color to an originally black and white feature. KEN  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-30-2006 09:37 AM                     Kenneth, HOW TRUE ! With the restoration of my RCA 816K I am forced into some compromises that might make purists squirm. For example the wire I am using. Unfortunately all the correct cloth covered wire is not available to me, but the compromise is that all of my color coding is correct. Another compromise. My original power cord has long since disappeared. According to the RCA books the outlet plug contained two glass fuses. Unfortunately an exact repro is not available and I have not been successful in finding a parts chassis with a good plug. But the compromise is that I have found a modern plug of the same design principle, using a modern type fuse. Randy, Rather than disposing of the original record player you might be able to put a CD player on a table next to this unit and simply connect it to the existing record player terminals. My RCA 816K of 1938 vintage has connection for external record player, and in all probability I could also hook up a CD player or tape deck to that same accessory terminal. BTW 78's are collectable and readily available. And a properly functioning Victrola, good needles and decent CD's can still put out excellent sound! There is one modification that I think is readily accepted in antique radio restoration. That is the placement of the safety cap circuit on the primary side of the power transformer. Dave Cantelon of JustRadios.com explains how o do this on his website. This is a safety issue that will eliminate the ole "tube radios pose fatal electrical hazzards".  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 10:42 AM                     Ken, I have considered whether or not to restore the unit to original (or near-original) condition. I've been researching this model and its history for a while, now. Without coming right out and saying it, most people seem to imply that the Zenith 10S690 is "Dime-a-Dozen." A unit in pristine, original condition might sell in $300 or $400, tops but it would have to be in mint condition. Mine is definately not anywhere near that. One guy even told me that he bought a near-perfect unit at a garage sale for $90. He probably weaseled the owner into giving him a better price but, still, I can't expect to get more than a couple hundred for it, even if I restore it to its former glory. To restore the cabinet to original condition would cost me at least $100 if I did it myself. (Grille cloth and drawer handles/hardware all need to be replaced.) It's probably going to cost me another $100-$200 to do the electrical restorations. Adding that up, I've already potentially spent more money than the thing is worth. It'd be silly to treat it like a museum piece. As you know, old radios have a tendancy to go up in smoke. I would NEVER sell it to somebody who didn't know what they were getting, lest their house burns down when the radio goes up in flames. So, that puts me in a sticky situation: 1) Spend a lot of money to make it reasonably safe to operate and risk not recouping my expense. 2) Sell it off to a collector, as-is, and get $100 for it, if I'm lucky. 3) Work on it for my own gratification and, maybe, get it into safe, working condition for my own use. Right now, I'm shooting for #3. But my wife would never let it into the house if it wasn't safe and it didn't play music that she can listen to. The AM broadcast bands in this area are all "Talk Radio" or "Music of Your Life" stations. We'd never be able to find 78 speed records that she'd like. So, the only way to make it play today's music would be to install a CD player in it, somehow. I do like the idea of just setting a CD player on top of the cabinet and simply hooking it up to the phono input. I could simply clean the cobwebs out of the phonograph and put it back the way I found it. It doesn't need to work since I probably never would use it beyond curiosity. So... If I go straight to the phono input with a CD player's output, would I need to do anything to match the impedance and/or the line level? Or could I just adapt the plug and let 'er rip?  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-30-2006 10:49 AM                     Randy Not sure about the impedence or line level. Mark G. could probably best answer that question. One thing that you mentioned in one of your previous posts was a question regarding what is termend "precautionary lead dress". The service manuals should give you all the info regarding "precautionary lead dress". There are leads that may be called out to a specific length. Some leads may require twisting. And others may specify the physical placement of leads in relation to the radio chassis and other components.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 12:02 PM                     One guy on the radio forum mentioned that there was something called a "gimmick" inside the chassis, used to add a hair bit of capacatance, here or there. It's a piece of wire, twisted around one of the leads but not actually connected to anything. When we were taught to build those tube amplifiers at Vo-tech, we had to maintain certian standards of isolation by keeping wires away from power supply leads and such. I suppose I'm going to have to get the manuals and do some studying before I take on the job. Assuming I have the manuals and considering the level of detail I want to put into this restoration, as I mentioned above, is there any reason I can't simply order parts from Mouser or Digi-Key or Allied? They would probably be the cheapest source. I don't see why I need to spend a lot of extra money on cloth covered wire and exact visual replicas of the old caps as long as I use wires and components that are of the right specs and color codes. No?  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-30-2006 12:58 PM                        quote: Randy Stankey is there any reason I can't simply order parts from Mouser or Digi-Key or Allied? Dunno, can't answer that for you. And Randy, on at least more modern radio, the poho inputs are more senitive than the other RCA inputs. Being so old, I'm not sure about yours. I know this becase my sister had an older Yamaha "Hi-fi" stereo from the 70's, it obviously didn't have a set of CD jacks in the back, so we had to use the Phono jacks, which were unoccupied. It was 2x if not 3x as loud ans it should have been, fortunatly it was a portable CD player, an we were able to simply turn it down.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 02:45 PM                     quote: Charles Greenlee ...It was 2x if not 3x as loud ans it should have been... That's the reason why I asked the question, "Does the phono input need impedance or level matching?" I got a schematic for it but I'm definately going to need the service manual(s) for it, too. I'll know more if/when I can get my hands on them. Or, if somebody knows off-hand.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-30-2006 03:59 PM                     Mr. Greenlee: your sisters Yamaha had a Magnetic input on the phono. They are always much more sensitive that the aux input, etc. Randy: I think you are probably OK hooking the CD direct to the phono input there. Instead of replacing all the caps at once, how about just replacing the electrolytics in the power supply first? There are probably 4-5 of them at the most. You can usually install the replacements under the chassis in the viscinity of the old ones, and simply cut the wires at the old caps. Also, install a 2A fuse in the supply line from the power cord. That will help if something shorts out. What does your radio use for a rectifier? 5Y3GT, or maybe a 6X5GT?  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-30-2006 04:48 PM                     Randy Order a complete cap kit from Dave Cantelon at www.justradios.com The average kit should cost you about $20.00 or so and Dave will put a complete kit together for you. This includes E-caps. The only caps that they recommend not replacing are micas. It is said that Micas rarely go bad and that replacing them will usually require a major realignment. As for wire you can't go wrong with UL1015 18AWG 600V/200F wire. It is about $0.10/ft. A 25 ft roll should run you about $3.00. You can contact Pacer Elcectric Wire and Cable in Phoenix, AZ. Also, some of our antique radio parts suppliers are now stocking 600V/200F wire of solid color in both non-cloth and cloth covered versions at very reasonable prices. Antique Electronic Supply has some, as well as some other vendors listed in Antique Radio Forums. Order your resistors from NTE.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-30-2006 11:44 PM                     Bruce, According to the schematic, the radio uses 5Y4G for the rectifier. I like the idea of getting the power supply caps and leads in good shape first. Once it is in condition where it's reasoably safe to operate I can go through it at leisure and work on it a littl at a time. I took a closer look inside the chassis today. >> Click HERE for pictures. << There are a few frayed wires but none that would be excessively dangerous if I turned it on. (At least as far as I can tell.) If somebody plugged it in the way it was, I don't think it would blow up in their face. Personally, I wouldn't power it up until I got the dust out of it and replaced the power cord and put a fuse in it. That's just common sense. You can see the condition of some of the caps inside. Yes, I know you can't always tell by just looking at them but, there are none that are obviously bad. You can also see some of the things I was talking about when I refered to the convoluted way the leads are run. There is one lead that's run right through the middle of the ganged band switch. There is a picture of that one piece of wire that was used for a 'gimmick'. Looking at the wax-coated inductors or the mica/ceramic trim caps I can see none of those that are broken or bent out of shape. Overall, I'd say this radio is in "decent" shape. Not "great" bu any means but it's within workable limits, I think. Melanie says that, if I can get it spiffed up and working again, she would entertain the idea of letting me put it in the house as a conversation piece. It would be a big plus if I could hook a CD player up to it. Our house was built in the early 1940's. A radio like this MIGHT have been part of the original furnishing of the house.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-31-2006 01:19 PM                     Electrolytics dry out. You might try to reform the caps by starting the unit up with a variac very slowly over a few hours. I did this with a 1941 Philco floor model a few months back. Its running fairly well with all its original electrolytics, but then again, it was run daily by the original owner from the 1940's thru the late 1970's when I got it. My 1942 RCA radio did fine with 2 caps replaced for over 15 years. Recently, I noticed that the hum was coming back, so I have just ordered all the caps to replace all the electrolytics in the radio. I think there were 7 in all. The rest of the radio sounds great, and is VERY sensitive with just the loop antenna that came with it. I have never adjusted anything here. Leave the trimmers alone, and dont tweek the coils. They dont seem to drift over time. I have a Brunswick-Collander (?) radio from the 1920's that has had one cap replaced. A 10uf 450v. The hum is quiet, and the UX-280 rectifier runs fairly cool. a new UX-227 made it come to life, and as I type this, I am listening to talk radio on it. I love old electronics!  |  IP: Logged

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