Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Plane Crash at Bluegrass Field Lexington Ky (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Plane Crash at Bluegrass Field Lexington Ky
Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-02-2006 03:09 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil, you are right, of course. It was an incredibly stupid thing to have not taken up that redundant taxiway when they constructed the extension.

Like motoring crashes, though, I've always believed that the majority of collisions can be avoided. Most of them happen when two people who are not paying attention to themselves or their surroundings... meet. I'm sure all of us can recall several instances where we've avoided a wreck simply by being vigilant and compensating for the mistakes of others. I know I have. I think this could also apply here... no one was paying close enough attention, and the mistake(s) of the designer slipped through the last set of fingers.
quote: Louis Bornwasser
The good thing about trucking, Tim, is that you are either at-the-motel or in the truck when you stop.
I do like being able to sleep whenever I need to, but the big problem (particularly late at night) is you can't always find a place to stop. Too many trucks and not enough parking spaces. You have no choice but to keep driving. Fortunately for me, I normally run at night, so by the time I shut down at 6 or 7am all the truck stops have cleared out. [Wink] If I get sleepy any earlier than that, though, it's very difficult to find a place to stop.

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-02-2006 03:33 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tim Reed
Like motoring crashes, though, I've always believed that the majority of collisions can be avoided. Most of them happen when two people who are not paying attention to themselves or their surroundings... meet.
Agreed completely. My no. 1 bugbear is people not leaving a safe enough distance between them and the vehicle in front. For at least half, I'd say, of my drive to and from work (48 miles each way, about half of which is on a 50-60mph single carriageway and the other half on a 70mph dual carriageway), there's usually someone close enough behind me that if I had to brake suddenly for any reason, (s)he'd be guaranteed to rear end me - no question whatsoever. The reason is either that they're just not paying attention, or that they're frustrated and want to overtake. The only way to deal with it is to slow down even more and open up an even bigger gap in front of me, to try and reduce the chances of ever having to brake sharply ... but of course that just makes the moron behind more frustrated and likely to do something really stupid, like try to overtake me from 55mph in a 1.1 Nissan Micra on a 200-yard approach to a blind bend. That's why I'll usually always sit behind a big lorry for the single carriageway stretch rather than try to overtake it - because (i) it can't brake that sharply compared to a car's braking action, and (ii) the driver is a professional, and therefore likely to be keeping a safe distance to the vehicle in front of him. And even if I did go past him, doing so would get me to work or home massive 2-3 minutes earlier (the difference between 50 and 60mph over a 10-15 mile stretch)! Not worth the risk or the hassle.

Oh, and people who drive up and down the motorway with one hand on the steering wheel and the other clasping a mobile 'phone to their ear really should be led up a hill and introduced to the wicker man. [Mad] This was made illegal here in 2003, but that hasn't reduced the problem.

quote: Phil Hill
I HOPE the airport and those responsible for the design and modification approvals get sued to hell!
That's already started. So far it's just the airline on the receiving end of the writ, but I imagine the airport soon will be as well, certainly over the understaffed control tower and possibly for causing the confusion over the runway remodelling/layout as well.

quote: Yahoo news site
Family Sues over Deadly Comair Crash
By JEFFREY MCMURRAY, Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 1, 4:59 PM ET

LEXINGTON, Ky. - The family of a woman killed when Comair Flight 5191 took off on the wrong runway and crashed in flames sued the airline Friday, blaming it for the nation's deadliest airplane disaster in five years.

The lawsuit accuses Comair of negligence and says passenger Rebecca L. Adams suffered "conscious pain and suffering" when the plane went down Sunday morning and quickly burned with 49 people still inside. The only survivor was the co-pilot, who remained hospitalized Friday but was upgraded from critical to serious condition.

The regional jet had left the gate before dawn with 50 people aboard. The pilots mistakenly turned onto the wrong runway, one too short for the twin-engine plane, and tried to take off. The plane crashed in a field just beyond Lexington's Blue Grass Airport.

The crash "could not have happened if those having control of the instrumentality had not been negligent," attorney Bobby Wombles of Lexington said in the lawsuit. Adams' son, Joshua Isaac Adams, said the family was pursuing legal action "so that we can one day have the answers we need."

The action needed to be taken immediately to make the family a full part of the investigation, giving it power to subpoena witnesses who also are being questioned by federal investigators, said another of the family's lawyers, Robert Clifford of Chicago. Other families also have contacted his firm, he said at a Lexington news conference.

Nick Miller, a Comair spokesman, said he couldn't comment on pending litigation. "Comair extends its heartfelt sympathy to everyone affected by the accident and our focus remains addressing the needs of family and loved ones in cooperating with the investigative process," Miller said.

Earlier this week, a Texas law firm ran a full-page ad in the Lexington Herald-Leader promising to get maximum damages for the families of victims who hired it. Comair, a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines Inc., operates 850 flights to 108 cities daily. Both airlines filed for bankruptcy protection last year.

The Lexington airport board met in a private session Friday morning to discuss "proposed litigation" against it as well. Michael Gobb, the airport director, said at least one family of the victims had told the airport it intends sue.

Federal officials have been looking into how the plane ended up on the 3,500-foot-long runway, the shortest of two runways at the Lexington airport and meant only for small planes. The taxiway to the 7,000-foot-long main runway had been altered by repaving one week before the crash.

In addition, only one air traffic controller was in the tower. The controller had had only two hours of sleep before starting work and had turned his back to do administrative work as the plane headed down the runway, according to the

Nearly a week after the crash, the first funerals began for the victims. Clark and Bobbie Sue Benton had boarded Flight 5191 for a trip to the Caribbean and vacation. They were buried Friday near Stanford in south-central Kentucky.

"We're asking difficult questions," the Rev. Wayne Galloway said at their funeral, attended by more than 300 people at Calvary Hill Baptist Church. "Why? Why do bad things happen to good people." Another memorial service was planned Friday in Lexington for Larry Turner, who oversaw the University of Kentucky's extension service.

Associated Press writers Samira Jafari in Pikeville; Roger Alford in Stanford; and Brett Barrouquere in Louisville contributed to this report.


 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 09-02-2006 09:15 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The legal concept is likely to be "Pilot-in command" though (as Phil says) there are certainly more factors like stupid airport design. The "problem" in LEX is well known and long-standing. A good friend was drummed off of that airport board because of his concern with this and other safety problems. The Mayor controls who is on the board. Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Joel N. Weber II
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Somerville, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 09-02-2006 01:39 PM      Profile for Joel N. Weber II   Email Joel N. Weber II   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In looking through avweb.com's coverage of this accident, I found it very interesting that the pilot's union focused on blaming the tower staffing. It certainly seems that the two pilots, not the people in the tower, are legally responsible for finding the right runway (perhaps unless the pilots had asked for progressive taxi instructions), and the compass ought to have been a clue that could have prevented this if the pilots had looked. Then again, avweb suggested that checking the compass is not necessarily a well standarized procedure, so perhaps poor signage actually is more than just a contributing factor.

Whether the airline was pressuring the pilots to be on time in spite of the distraction with the wrong plane is an interesting question, though, and I'm surpised the union wasn't asking about that.

 |  IP: Logged

Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 09-02-2006 02:15 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Honeywell has a cockpit system specifically for avoiding such disaters from occuring. At about $13,000 per aircraft, it is not "widely" used.

Kutler

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-2007 08:52 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And here is the NTSB's findings......
Article here.

Pilots in deadly crash didn't get warnings paper:

4 "Notices to Airmen" were missing from flight dispatch paperwork

One notice said normal taxiway to main runway was closed, says report

Comair Flight 5191 used wrong runway and crashed in August, killing 49

Notice wasn't included on recorded airport message system used by pilots


LEXINGTON, Kentucky (AP) -- The pilots in a jet crash last summer that killed 49 people left the terminal without receiving four important airport advisories, including one that said the normal taxiway to the main runway was closed, a newspaper reported Sunday.

The four updates -- called Notices to Airmen -- were missing from the flight dispatch paperwork the pilots received from Comair, the Lexington Herald-Leader reported, citing information the Air Line Pilots Association submitted to the National Transportation Safety Board.

Comair relies on prerecorded messages to get local advisories from the Blue Grass Airport, but the taxiway closing wasn't recorded that day.

Randy Harris, president of the local National Air Traffic Controllers Association, said he didn't know why the notice was omitted.

Comair Flight 5191 crashed on August 27, 2006, shortly after mistakenly taking off from the general aviation runway, killing all people aboard but one. The plane taxied to the wrong runway in the pre-dawn darkness.

Flight data recordings indicated the pilots thought they were taking off from the main runway and may have been confused by the alternate route.

The NTSB will release its findings and state a probable cause in the crash during a meeting Thursday in Washington.

The pilots -- Jeffrey Clay and first officer James Polehinke -- also did not receive information about the airport's general aviation runway being limited to daytime use and about the distance-remaining lights on the airport's main runway being out of service, the Herald-Leader reported.

Pilots contend the notice system is outdated and isn't always readily available. Anywhere from 300 to 1,000 notices are issued each day across the nation and can contain everything from departure procedures to airport construction. E-mail to a friend

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-23-2007 11:29 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The difficulty here is that these are only contributing factors. When a commercial pilot who routinely flies into an airport that has a known problem area: (unlit alternate runway, misleading signage, close alignment of simiar runways) does not check and cross check you will get errors. It is untimately the pilot-in-commands fault. Controller error, paperwork error, lack of timely notice, etc. are only contributing factors.

A simple cross check of the takeoff heading versus the runway heading would have yielded a cautionary hold if the check list had been followed.

In other words, these are NOT itinerant pilots; they are Comair pilots. Lexington is a mini hub for them and they should have been aware of this problem on-their-own due to experience. The rest of us in Kentucky knew (from personal experience)that confusion of runways is normal. Louis

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.