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Author Topic: What is this key that came with my car? Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-21-2007 02:32 AM                        The British motor industry of the 1970s was one of the final symptoms of the post-war nationalisation of heavy industry and the fact that we didn't invest in our manufacturing base to anything like the same extent as mainland Europe did in the '50s and '60s (in the context of cars, especially Germany). To be fair, that was partly because we couldn't afford to: we were paying off massive debts incurred during the war, whereas mainland Europe was receiving substantial long-term investment through the Marshall plan and other funding streams. But a lack of long-term investment, a mismanaged economy and chronically poor industrial relations over 2-3 decades culminated in the kind of vehicle that Basil Fawlty delivered a good thrashing to. My grandpa lived in South Wales in the 1970s, where he was a manager at a steel works, most of the output of which went to the British Leyland car factory in Lancashire. He drove a very unreliable Triumph, but often said that if his and thousands of his colleagues' jobs hadn't depended on the British motor industry, he'd have bought a BMW without a moment's hesitation.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-21-2007 04:12 AM                        quote: Leo Enticknap we were paying off massive debts incurred during the war, whereas mainland Europe was receiving substantial long-term investment through the Marshall plan Not true. Great Britain was actually *donated* most of the help it received from the US through the lend-lease act. They were also the main recipients of funds from the Marshall plan. Great Britain received more than any other European country although they had less actual damage than all or most other countries. I think the reality is that British economy was simply based mostly on economic exploitation of other countries through colonialism, not on their own technological development and industrial progress. Once the colonial base fell away, it could only go downhill. The Marshall plan was a great idea because it helped rebuild Europe after the war and avoid a lot of human suffering, because otherwise, an expansion of the influence of the USSR would have been pre-programmed, it also created new economies that could trade with the US (American economy was really booming in that time, but if you have overproduction and nobody you can sell the goods to, economic collapse can follow quickly) and it made sure that the mistakes made after WWI wouldn't be repeated when Germany was made to pay immense reparations which led to an economic burden the country could hardly bear and from there to the flourishing of radical movements like the Nazis and a desire for revenge. It worked out fabulously well. I mean, the Marshall plan, not the revenge. But it is often misunderstood. The Marshall plan was not that substantial as far as the actual funds which flowed across the Atlantic were concerned, its main effect was that it helped get things just started again. It was also very well administrated to make sure that the funds went into the right channels (not like in Russia in the 90s when countless billions of help offered from Western countries just kind of syphoned off, with the result that you have a lot of immensely rich people there, but still a vast majority of direly poor). What happened after the 4 years the Marshall plan ran was mostly up to the individual countries. German economy boomed so enormously during the 50s that they actually had massive need for foreign guest workers at the end of the decade. The reason for that was that there was already a strong industrial and intellectual base there which could be revived after the war even though the entire country lay in ruins. Things didn't go so well for Great Britain because they lost their most substantial colonies (like India) as a result of the war (oops) and they simply didn't have the substance to make up for that loss of essentially free resources from enslaved colonies.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 02-21-2007 06:30 AM                     quote: Leo Enticknap we were paying off massive debts incurred during the war There was something on the radio at New Year that we had, that day, finally finished paying off our outstanding debt from the Second World War; there was something a couple of months previously about the final payment being made soon. This sounds good, but somebody told me that we still have some outstanding debt from the First World War. Does anybody know if this is true?  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-21-2007 06:51 AM                        quote: Michael Schaffer Not true. Great Britain was actually *donated* most of the help it received from the US through the lend-lease act. That help was received during the war itself, and for the sole purpose of fighting it. Lend-lease had nothing whatsoever to do with the post-war reconstruction period, which was what my earlier post referred to. You're right in that the residual infrastructure that was in or en route to the UK at the time the Truman Administration suddenly terminated the agreement in December 1945, was sold to the British government at 10% of its pre-war cost price. But we had to pay that 10% back, and doing so imposed a significant financial burden (during the 1945-55 period, this was equivalent to 2.8% of the income tax paid by each British adult). The axis countries didn't have to pay anything, while at the same time their industrial infrastructure was being rebuilt, largely funded by the ERP. quote: Michael Schaffer I think the reality is that British economy was simply based mostly on economic exploitation of other countries through colonialism... That statement would be true if you were talking about the century before the First World War. The Empire had ceased to deliver any net economic benefits to the UK by the early '20s (see Correlli Barnett, The Lost Victory, London, 1995, for the figures). We handed back all the major colonies as soon as we safely could after WWII without the risk of leaving behind civil wars or worse (which, in the case of India/Pakistan, the Palestine Mandate and Kenya, was a very real threat). In answer to Stephen's question, we finally paid back the last installment (of around £45 milliion, if I remember the news story correctly) in December 2006.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 02-21-2007 07:29 AM                     Hi, Mitchell; I also had an X1/9 .. my first new car. It was a 1979, which was the first year they upsized the engine to 1500cc and added a 5-speed. After about five years, it started to turn back into iron ore.... Not being one to shy away from a challenge, I now have a Range Rover Discovery II. It does some strange things once in a while, but (at 80000 miles) has been a good car. I had read somewhere that the "V" in the Cinemeccannica projector model line stood for "Victory," meaning Cinemeccannica's return to stable production levels after WWII.  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 02-21-2007 12:35 PM                      |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 02-21-2007 02:57 PM                     Yes, but many good conversations drift away from the original topic, no? That's why it's called 'yak-king.' Growing up, the schools I went mostly only taught what happened to Americans in foreign countries, not what happended to foreigners in foreign countries. Personally, I find comments made by Leo, Michael, Stephen, (and others across the Big Pond) really interesting.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-21-2007 04:38 PM                        Indeed, and casually yakking about this and that is part of "getting to know each other" and forming an "online community". Besides, I already told Adam what the key is for. You may think I am kidding, but I am not. Only a few weeks ago a guy here blew up his truck and himself up with that because he thought he was attacked by Aliens. As it turns out, he had just had a really bad day and the people he saw approaching in his rear view mirror were just some really ugly people.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-21-2007 05:45 PM                       Adam, unless you're gonna share, please refrain from using smilies no one else knows the coding to...  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-21-2007 06:03 PM                  Right on, Tim! (Adam is such a brute)  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-21-2007 07:15 PM                        Well, you can save and upload the image.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-21-2007 07:29 PM                        :offtopic: :ot: :off: Well, it was worth a try (or 3).  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-21-2007 07:55 PM                        UBB code is actually :offtopic: but apparently that isn't activated here. I don't know if you can activate/block certain smileys. Looks like it though. Let's try another one: :applause: That doesn't work either. :notontopic:  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 02-21-2007 08:34 PM                        What makes you think that Adam didn't just upload it himself and link to it just like you guys did? See look, I can post it but I don't even have to upload it. You guys make my head hurt daily.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-21-2007 08:35 PM                        I don't know about Schaffer, but I was just wondering how long it would take to get a response out of you. 39 minutes, you're slipping.  |  IP: Logged

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