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Topic: THX completely out of business ???

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-02-2003 12:51 AM

THX NEVER had the "best" crossover or one that couldn't be replaced with as-good or better performance. They had a good crossover that was customized to work with the JBL 4675.

I'm curious as to a decertified theatre with the newer THX D1138. It is not leased. Personally, I'd use a RANE RPM-26Z (as many as necessary based on channels and speakers) over it nowadays with a good stand-alone booth monitor. The RANE will also accept AES3 inputs for those with digital outputs on their processors.

Steve

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-02-2003 05:52 PM

quote:
Also, if a house is decertified, do they still get to use the THX crossovers?

Carmike purchased many of theirs. I think the crossovers in this theater are an older variety that was standard through the early to late 1990's (doesn't THX use something different now?). The tech guy Carmike uses for the theater here (and others in this region) retunes all the houses on his quarterly visits whether they are THX or not. The theater is almost 9 years old, but is well maintained. A lot of speaker drivers have been replaced and the HVAC system had a good amount of work done on it.

With its competition down the street going 2nd run, Carmike may do a stadium seating conversion and add some screens sometime in the near future. But I strongly fear that in doing so Carmike will drop the THX certification from screen #4 and not do THX on any new houses. The stadium seating conversion could change a lot of acoustical properties that could drop it below the THX spec. Ultimately that is the issue killing THX in the professional cinema business. THX cannot seem to get movie theater circuits to include it within new stadium seated / digital sounded theaters. It is pretty rare to find a stadium seated theater that is THX certified and actually hits the specification.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 11-03-2003 03:03 PM

quote:
To give an example of how THX hype is misunderstood, the Carmike 8 in Lawton was built with two THX screens. Carmike dropped the certification on screen #5 a couple years ago but kept #4 certified. There are times where the theater will get 2 prints of a big film and put both prints on #4 and #5. There will be times where a customer missed the showtime on #4, but wants to see the film in a THX house. It is difficult for the box person to make them to realize house #5 is just as good a room without having the manager take the customer up into the booth to see the equipment racks. The only difference is you'll see a THX trailer in #4.

Doesn't this reinforce the argument that the THX marketing was working? The customer was demanding to see the film in a THX theater. Without that designation, how is he supposed to know that the other theater is "just as good"?

Since I began The BigScreen Cinema Guide almost 9 years ago, I have made an effort to accentuate those elements which should provide a better experience. We even have descriptions of THX, digital sound, and stadium seating, to help educate people on what these designations mean.

Take a look at these:

Star Cinema - Fitchburg Schedule Page
Scary Movie Schedule for Theaters Near Madison, WI

One of the most frustrating things is that we have trouble getting theaters to provide us with the necessary information to make this a value to our readers. You can see it in the above example; when there is a THX designator, there is no digital sound indicator.

Even the THX houses that we list don't often mark their presentations as THX so that people know which presentations are which. When people ask, I tell them that they have to call the theater since I have no way of knowing. So now, the theater must field a phone call instead of supplying the information up-front. I also tell people to attend the shows that are marked properly in the first place.

Our efforts to work with theaters to improve this information have been largely in vain. After all, we're trying to help them display information their customers want.

I don't buy the "customers don't know the difference between THX and DTS" argument. To me, that demonstrates a lack of respect for the customer and a blown opportunity to educate those who don't understand on what makes for a better presentation.

If theaters don't take the time to help their customers figure out how to appreciate good product, what's going to stop them from going to a competitor or staying home and waiting for the DVD?

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Daniel Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Okmulgee, Ok , USA
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 11-03-2003 05:25 PM

How many of the customers actully know what THX is? I mean in the sense of sound deadening and setup. I agree with the previous posters, that useing it for home video transfers and cheap stereo equipment has dropped it's value as a name drastically.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-03-2003 05:27 PM

Scott,
You're right. Its extremely confusing and quite rediclous and knowing the owners of Star Cinemas I'm pretty surprised at this lax approach. They were never lax when I did work for them in past years........

So I went to their web site....apparently new, however definately very UNIMPROVED! They used to list data for the type of sound system, screen size, etc. installed in each autitorium for each site....thats gone. The movie listing descriptions are also so fuzzy its hard to tell what site you'd want to see a film at. And, oddly, in Star's case they have a conglomeration of theatres around the Baraboo area with many screens to choose from so better advertising and returning the screen by screen description would be to everyones advantage. In fact on their own web site they don't state which digital format they are playing any given film in...... Did they take out all the digital systems, and the THX screens I installed for them? Who knows....no one for sure.

Mark @ CLACO

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 11-04-2003 02:32 AM

Scott said

quote:
I don't buy the "customers don't know the difference between THX and DTS" argument. To me, that demonstrates a lack of respect for the customer and a blown opportunity to educate those who don't understand on what makes for a better presentation.

If theaters don't take the time to help their customers figure out how to appreciate good product, what's going to stop them from going to a competitor or staying home and waiting for the DVD?

Amen brother! Managers need to stop thinking of customers as mindless cattle who couldn't tell the difference between mono and stereo. We should respect them as humans, understand that they do care about presentation, and make an effort to be showmans. Give them the benefit of the doubt and do whatever it takes to keep a great presentation. This whole discussion reminds me of why people dislike letterboxing on DVD: they just are not educated on the matter. It's nice to know most here on Film-Tech care about the matter. God knows that some of my managers do not.

AJG

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-04-2003 01:10 PM

Actually there are a lot of customers who indeed do not know the difference between THX and sound presentation formats like Dolby Digital or DTS. This is part of my complaint on how THX is treated in advertising.

Some of the blame goes to exhibitors, such as the marking of a show as being "presented in THX" but any digital sound notation is dropped. This is also a common problem with the various Surround EX formats too since a DTS-ES or Dolby SA-10 unit can be applied to any of three theatrical digital sound formats. The exhibitors just figure one logo is enough. That creates a kind of rock-paper-scissors game where one item like THX is seen as being better than another aspect of the show like DTS. Very little is done to say THX and digital surround is a better combination than either system alone.

THX does make some flyers available where they describe a digital soundtrack as being like a CD and the THX sound system as being a really great stereo system on which to play the CD. That's a good point. However, I've seen very few people pick up one of those flyers and go to the trouble of reading it. THX has to find some way to better illustrate its role in movie theater presentation and probably have to do that on screen during a THX trailer, or even perhaps on THX trailers used on so many DVDs.

quote:
Doesn't this reinforce the argument that the THX marketing was working? The customer was demanding to see the film in a THX theater. Without that designation, how is he supposed to know that the other theater is "just as good"?

The problem is the customer I mentioned did not have a clear understanding of THX. He really only knows the logo. The box office staff tried telling him for his own benefit that house #5 was the same in every detail as house #4 so he wouldn't have to wait an hour and a half for the next show. If the customer had said something like "well I want to be able to see that THX logo thing before the show," then his insistence on #4 would have made more sense.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 11-05-2003 12:47 PM

It's too bad that THX and Dolby/DTS/Sony can't work together to come up with combo trailers that speak to that very issue.

Something like "Wings" where the text explained what was going on, and the deep note was starting to build.

The version of Cimarron that I have starts out with the text "Dolby Digital Sound in a THX Theater" and then goes to the conductor w/ the baton, and then the amazing light tunnel, the climax, and then the light tinkling at the end.

This would actually do the trick in Dolby Digital equipped theaters, even without extra explanatory text.

But alas, we run into the problem that we've talked about before. Many theaters don't seem to be willing to take the time to educate people on what can make a better experience.

It's been a very long time since I've seen a THX or a digital sound trailer in a theater. That's unfortunate, since it (the THX/digital sound trailer) would provide a nice beginning for the presentation as a segue from the ads and trailers.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-05-2003 01:59 PM

I thought running the THX trailer was a requirement for certified theatres?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 11-05-2003 03:29 PM

THX certified theaters are supposed to run the THX snipe before the show, but many do not. I suppose it comes down to having to build up a print with the THX snipe included and then taking the snipe out when you move the print to a different auditorium. Another issue is trailers wearing out and needing replacement. You only get so many free THX trailers per year/per auditorium.

I personally think any theater equipped for digital sound and/or certified by THX should play the trailers. Audiences do find them entertaining. And it adds a little more showmanship value.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 11-05-2003 05:08 PM

I wonder how often those audio snipes continue to be played in other houses after a show is demoted to a theatre that is not THX certified or is not equipped with a digital audio format.

It must happen. The question is really how frequently...

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Daniel Fuentz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Fresno, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 11-05-2003 08:53 PM

In regards to stadium theatres and THX, the Signature Stadium 16 here in Fresno is certified on all their screens, and they do play the THX snipe as well as the appropriate sound format snipe before each feature. The only other THX theatre in town that I am aware of is screen #8 at the UA Towne Center 8 in Clovis. Last time I was there (In April) they did not run a THX snipe, and the only mention of THX in that auditorium was a tiny little logo in the mylar holder above the door. I do agree that they don't really do a good job of marketing what exactly THX is, and why that makes a difference.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-06-2003 02:54 PM

Speaking of THX, I'm wondering if any film-tech members have a copy in their possession of a THX-Certified Cinemas list?

Why not download or print the info from the THX Web site, you ask? Simple: because the specific information I am seeking is no longer incorporated into the lists available on the Web. What I am seeking is either a hard copy from the early-to-mid 1990s or a copy from that same timeframe that was printed from the Web.

I've requested a copy directly from THX, but they have been unable to provide me with anything from the desired timeframe. So, I'm hoping perhaps a theatre manager, projectionist or an enthusiast here on film-tech may have a list handy and would be willing to make a copy, or can direct me to someone who might. If anyone can help in any way please contact me.

Thanks.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-06-2003 03:42 PM

I have the published THX "Certified Theatre" listings from Summer 2000, March 1997, October 1996, September 1995, and January 1994, if that is any help. [Smile]

Ex-THX guys like Tom Lipiec, Ted Costas, Tim Shafbuch, Ross Herring, or even Tom Holman might have stuff too. I've got some early 1980's Inter-Society correspondence with George Lucas, but it doesn't list any theatres.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-06-2003 05:40 PM

What info do you need specifically?

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