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Author Topic: Upgrading to as much RAM as the OS can understand?! Joel N. Weber II Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Somerville, MA, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 09-09-2007 10:56 AM                     If he said it would work fine, that might be an implied warranty that might overrule what the receipt says. Of course, it would be hard to prove a verbal promise in court (unless you have someone else as a witness, perhaps), and I'm not entirely clear on how implied warranties work, legally, in the US (I think it varies by state), much less Canada. However, if he's an honest businessperson, he'll probably be willing to exchange it, and if not, hopefully you'll have the good sense to take your future business elsewhere (which may well cost him more in the long run than whatever profit he might get from not making the exchange in the short term). 32 bit operating systems can only address 4GB. Moreover, some of that 4GB space is used for things other than RAM. One of my computers will only let me use 3.3 GB because the other .7GB or so is reserved by the motherboard for video cards etc that I don't have. I could switch to a 64 bit OS and use the whole 4GB, but storing those extra 64 bit numbers instead of using 32 bit numbers might use up a good chunk of the extra RAM that would become useable that way. Edit: the hard drive size thing may have something to do with how some people think that a gigabyte is 2^30 bytes (probably including your operating system), and others believe a gigabyte is 10^9 bytes (including drive manufacturers). And as for having servers, you most certainly can have too many servers; most rooms that were built 5-10 years ago to hold servers used by businesses do not have enough air conditioning to keep up with all the servers you might try to pack into them these days, and electricity can cost a lot of money, too; consolidating functionality into newer, more powerful servers can reduce the electric bill substatially (though it's not entirely clear to me to what extent the electricity savings really pay for the new hardware).  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-09-2007 04:29 PM                     Under 32-bit WindowsXP or Windows2000, the operating system will recognize up to a total maximum of 4GB. Further, installed applications will only recognize up to 2GB. True 64-bit operating systems will recognize a far higher amount of RAM (and use it more efficiently). Unfortunately, you only get real benefits when the installed applications are compiled in 64-bit code. The vast majority of commercially sold computer applications are still only 32-bit. That even goes for nearly all graphics programs. None of Adobe's applications are compiled in 64-bit code on either Mac or PC platforms. The only 64-bit graphics applications you'll find are 3D modeling and animation applications and certain high end compositing applications. It's probably going to be another couple of years or so before many applications are recompiled into 64-bit code. It may be even longer than that before you see most applications converted into multi-threaded code (for use with multiple CPUs or CPUs with multiple cores). With that stated, don't break your back chasing after 64-bit stuff. For now it causes more problems than it solves.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-09-2007 05:36 PM                        There's also the /3GB switch that can be inserted in your boot.ini file, which is supposed to allocate up to 3GB for an application that can take advantage of it (instead of the normal 2GB). Note that some application developers specifically say "Don't do that" (Perforce Server for Win32 platforms being one). /3GB Switch Don't be messing with boot.ini though unless you know what you're doing.  |  IP: Logged Joel N. Weber II Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Somerville, MA, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 09-09-2007 06:28 PM                     There's also a hybrid mode known as PAE (Physical Address Extensions) which lets your operating system see a larger-than-32-bit address space, but each program only sees a 32 bit address space. I believe that Windows Server 2003 and Linux, at least, support it (NetBSD seems to make a point of rather intentionally not supporting it), and it may be useful if you're running lots of programs on a single server all at once. PAE mode is also really useful for VMware servers, where the physical server may well have many times more RAM than fits into a 32 bit address space, but most or all of the running guest OSes may be in 32 bit mode with relatively modest amounts of RAM per virtual machine. At least one of my coworkers has some software running on Linux that requires more than a 32 bit address space to run effectively, and we also end up having to provide 64 bit builds for a number of customers, so whether 64 bit software is worth the effort depends on awful lot on what you're doing. However, if you don't know that you need 64 bit support, you probably don't need 64 bit support. And at least in the pre-Vista world, 1-2GB typically is plenty for most desktop computers, and fits very nicely into 32 bits.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Raisler Film Handler Posts: 52 From: Warsaw, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2003 posted 09-09-2007 07:48 PM                    Andrew, It has always been my experience that 98 and ME don't behave well with more than 256 MB of memory installed. most computers of that era had around 32 to 128 of ram. you shouldn't need the extra ram unless you run memory intensive programs like photoshop or do lots of video editing. which was never good under 98 or ME for that matter. Since you upgraded to xp home (memory hog) you will have to find out if your mobo will handle the ram if not i would reinstall 98 and just run legacy software.  |  IP: Logged Bob Healey Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Milford, CT Registered: Sep 2001 posted 09-09-2007 09:47 PM                     Microsoft explicitly disables PAE for its 32 bit non-server OS offerings. I think they do it so people can't try to run servers on the cheaper OS's.  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 09-11-2007 06:55 PM                        So, I went to the computer store, and they gladly exchanged the 512mb RAM for 2 sticks of 256mb of RAM, with no extra cost. One problem: When I turn the computer on, it makes the four beeps again and won't boot up. Any suggestions?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-12-2007 12:44 AM                     Sad thing about some manufacturers, esp IBM with the older systems (Compaq was horrible with this and experienced the same crisis when my friend tried to do the same memory upgrade thing..) is that some momboards are horribly proprietary based..in short, you need to buy THEIR memory (which their momboards needs RAM in paired value to work), HDD's, BIOS upgrades, et.al. to make the thing run correctly and as you want to. Called: "you buy their products, they expect you to run back to them for service" - no questions asked since they expect the nominal customer to be computer illiterate (like they think that the CD tray is a coffeecup holder...) I'd yank the momboard out of that case and start over with a new momboard and go from there..and make sure that the PS is at least a 500w PS if you're gonna turn that new rebuild into a screamer.. ..been there, done that a few times.. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Anslem Rayburn Master Film Handler Posts: 476 From: Yuma, AZ, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 09-12-2007 01:02 AM                     According to on-line memory configurators, PC133 NON-ECC RAM rated at 3.3v are the modules for this computer. Check and see if that is what you bought, if not that could be the problem.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Pitt Master Film Handler Posts: 266 From: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: May 2007 posted 09-12-2007 01:31 AM                     Changing RAM isn't as simple as taking out RAM sticks and putting new ones in. After doing that, you need to tell the machine that it has the new memory. Although most modern machines use their BIOS setup to do this (you'll see a message on the screen saying that the RAM size has changed and offering to go into setup), older machines would require you to change DIP switches or jumpers. If you don't, the board will do an error beep code when you turn it on. Also, if I remember correctly, there are certain sizes of RAM that a motherboard will accept. If you install RAM so that the total is between those finite values, the board will refuse to accept the RAM. For example, if you install a 128MB stick and a 16MB stick (making 144MB), that's not in the list of acceptable values and the board won't accept it.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-12-2007 02:03 AM                        ...and if you've got a dual channel RAM facility, you sometimes have to have exactly the same type of memory stick in slots 1 & 3, or 2 & 4, or else it won't recognise some of the memory, or even refuse to work at all.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2007 02:11 AM                        quote: Thomas Pitt Changing RAM isn't as simple as taking out RAM sticks and putting new ones in. It's always been that simple for me.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-12-2007 02:21 AM                     quote: Joe Redifer It's always been that simple for me. ..same here, but the trick is to construct your own computer from scratch and stay away from any store bought, "big box name" units. This is where a lot of upgraders think that they can make a mondane machine into a monster that they've bought from Wally's World and the such and find out they can't due to the previous comment that I posted on proprietory manufactured units. In short, they want you to buy a new machine JUST for that very reason - not for you to rip it apart to modify, hack and overclock that one unit.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 09-12-2007 08:33 AM                    Monte hit on one important thing and that is the power supply. Since you have upgraded that computer. It may be lacking in the power supply department. Did you try to put one stick in or try putting in the original sticks of memory to see if it boots up.  |  IP: Logged Joel N. Weber II Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Somerville, MA, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 09-12-2007 09:26 AM                     I think the PC133 RAM used by this computer became popular long after DIP switches to indicate the amount of RAM became obsolete. While the power supply could be a problem in theory, RAM doesn't tend to use very much power in the grand scheme of things, and I suspect it's much more likely that the specs on this RAM happen to be completely incompatible with this motherboard.  |  IP: Logged

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