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Author Topic: Changeover guys/gals - test your skills Mark Ogden Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 943 From: Little Falls, N.J. Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-29-2007 03:42 PM                     quote: Rick Raskin Think Dorothy opening the door at the end of Wizard of Oz, R-1. At the risk of being too anal . . . ytical, the from behind P.O.V. shot of Dorothy opening the door is at the head of reel 2. It's the cut point between the sepia-tinted B/W footage and the full color stock.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-29-2007 05:33 PM                        John, that chart.....WAY freakin awesome, my friend! Details.... they're what make the world go round.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-29-2007 06:13 PM                     quote: Rick Raskin You'll catch a perfect fade-out, fade-in every time. ..another fadeout changeover to get exact was the change from reels 1 to 2 on the first STAR WARS (1977) movie. And with XL's and SH-1000's that I had, I would place "10" in the framebox of reel 2 to make the changeover just right due to the slow ramp up speed of the SH-1000 (4-star) heads. (Think what those guys would have to do with the 70mm prints to get that changeover just right in their "JJ's" and "AA-2's")  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-29-2007 09:15 PM                     Umm, Monte, slow ramp-up speed means you thread with LESS countdown, not more. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 09-29-2007 10:46 PM                     Around here the old guys said that they were expected to make the changeover WHILE the change cue was on the screen and trainees had to demonstrate the ability to do so before they were allowed to work by themselves.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-29-2007 11:02 PM                     Those old guys are just dating themselves...all the way back to pre-tape splicers. I've seen more than a few prints go through my hands where some idiot chopped off 12 ID frames and the leaders were cement spliced back on.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-29-2007 11:27 PM                     It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Always measure. Maaaaaybe if you're a screening room with a one-shot show and you're in a hurry, you can get away without it, but it's not Film Done Right. (Measuring the time between cue dots is sufficiently more work that I could see skipping that if you're in a hurry. It doesn't take much time with a sync block, assuming that you use the guess-and-check method and the timing is near to correct...) --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-30-2007 03:40 AM                     Yea John, you're right on that one - thx for getting me on the right track ..  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2007 10:29 AM                     Can't we have some important thread like "Best way to Pick Your Nose" or something more relevant?  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2007 11:26 AM                     quote: John Hawkinson Measuring the time between cue dots is sufficiently more work that I could see skipping that if you're in a hurry. It doesn't take much time with a sync block, assuming that you use the guess-and-check method and the timing is near to correct...) Most guys I knew would line up the changeover cue with the edge of the reel and then count the turns either of the reel or the rewind crank depending on the setup. It was fast and accurate. Bob  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2007 12:10 PM                     The best operators I knew would memorize the last line of dialog in each reel so they didn't clip off any of the dialog at all. On reels that didn't have ending dialog they'd go by the cues which they had previously checked for accuracy. Mark  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-30-2007 12:17 PM                     Huh, that's an interesting method, Bob. In the last millennium, before we had sync blocks and frame counters, we'd count "by hand." We have a paper blotter on the rewind bench with 24 frames (plus some extras) marked off, so you'd just pull out a second of film, move the right edge of the film to the left edge of the mark and measure off the next second, repeat 7 times. It wasn't terrible, but it's a lot faster with a sync block (travel 10-foot-8-frames and check. Or 10-foot-12-frames in the New World Order). As for crank-counts: I'm not quite so sure about accuracy... it seems like it depends a lot on the outer diameter of the reel. For instance, 7 seconds is 2.9 revolutions at 14 inches, but 3.1 revolutions at 13 inches, and 3.3 at 12 inches. Or, to put it differently, if you decide you want to measure with 4-frame accuracy (seems like a lower bound on the accuracy you want), you need to be able to resolve 0.068 (14") or 0.080 (12") revolutions, and that seems a tough act to follow. That's somewhere between 1/15th and 1/12th of a revolution. I guess we should all be able to do twelfths (clock face)... On the other hand, at various times I've toyed with the idea of mounting a revolution counter on the rewind bench. I'd always decided that it was mostly pointless as a footage indicator given the diameter variations, and the utility otherwise was insufficient. But then it occurs to me that if you measure the number of revolutions on both sides, perhaps there is something clever that is doable. But it probably leaves the realm of purely mechanical devices. Probably need to measure their rates, too... Perhaps after I make Steve's cue markers. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-30-2007 02:20 PM                     John, Using standard house reels with 5" hubs...unless you have a incredible amount of tail scrap leader...the "kitchen physics" rule is 8-truns between motor and changeover cues. It is accurate enough to check cues, not accurate enough to scribe cues. So when I'm working a screening room and checking for cues...I'll locate the c/o cue...go back 8-turns and verify the motor cue. It takes virtually no time, presuming your are checking in the print anyway (which I always do...even for just one show). Steve  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-30-2007 02:25 PM                     Sigh...you know, I didn't think of counting revolutions of the small diameter, just the big (variable) diameter. Fooled by the obvious again! (Of course, handchecking from tail-out to head-out on a motorized rewind bench, there's no hand-crank to gauge it by, ah...) --jhawk p.s.: Yes, Scott, with a foot pedal.  |  IP: Logged

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