|
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Night-vision goggles in battle for Batman
|
Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler
Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 07-19-2008 03:29 PM
quote: Frank Angel
And again I say, how is it the studios expect the theatre owner to increase man/hours with staff using these night-vision things without compensation? How is it they think they get this for free? Would they ask Technicolor to put extra security details on their prints for free? But they have no problem just assuming that all they need to do is hand the theatre a pair of these goggles and poof, schedules will be rearrange, added responsibilities will be given to staff and it will all be paid for by the theatres. I say, pay the theatres for a "night-vision detail" crew, if they want that extra security, out of the money they save by all that piracy it will stop.
Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't employees that would normally be checking the theaters anyway be using the goggles? How would simply doing quick checks with the goggles while doing your normal theater checks increase payroll, alter scheduling, or be considered an increase in responsibilities?
If we were sent goggles to check the auditoriums with, I would have no issue having staff use them. Heck, we would even use them to check the other screens since we had them.
You seem to think that if a measure doesn't stop piracy dead in it's tracks and immediately result in better fees for theaters and theater patrons it is a stupid waste of resources. I disagree. We are partners with the studios. They have every right to expect us to protect their property while we are renting it.
quote: Frank Angel
And how bout cutting them in on the savings just due to the fact that they had to endure crap codes in the picture and in the sound to prevent million of dollars lost to screen pirates?
I have never, ever had a single complaint, comment, or question about CAP code. I see it on the prints when I screen them and it bothers me for a split second. A customer, friend, or coworker has never asked what it was or complained about it, unless I pointed it out to them(friends, not customers). Do I like it? No. I also don't consider it such a distraction that I would say they had to "endure" it, as a great majority of people don't even notice it.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 07-20-2008 04:39 AM
quote: Anslem Rayburn
You seem to think that if a measure doesn't stop piracy dead in it's tracks and immediately result in better fees for theaters and theater patrons it is a stupid waste of resources. I disagree. We are partners with the studios. They have every right to expect us to protect their property while we are renting it.
I won't rehash the discussions in other threads about where the huge losses come from when it comes to piracy. The studios will have you believe that it comes from off-screen copies. Some of us here don't believe that is the whole story and that the SIGNIFICANT loss from pirates who make pristine counterfeit copies that can be duplicated and sold in foreign marks and can pass as legitimate DVDs or are played in theatres in poorer countries via inexpensive consumer video projectors -- these that are indistinguishable from studio copies do not come from off-screen copies. Arguably it is THESE that cost the studios the most in revenue. What hurts Rolex more -- some cheap knockoff from China that a potential customer can spot as a fake from miles away, or one that even the experts have a hard time distinguishing and which can be sold by not-so-ethical jewelry stores? What's more, the studios know the master-quality videos come from within, not from off-screen junk. It's THAT's an embarrassment to them.
As for us being partners with the studios....yah, sure. There are partners and then there are "partners." Did your partner consult with you about the those nifty night goggles? Did he ask you how that might impact your business? Did he call you in to discuss how dumping his product, which presumably is your business's life-blood, into ancillary video markets in shorter and shorter windows was going to hurt YOUR business.
Sure this is a partnership, but it is decidedly lopsided, and it's not in your favor. Were you consulted when your studio partners decided that in order to save themselves millions of dollars a year in prints costs, YOU are going to have to buy and install a completely new technology (discarding, one should note, your already bought-and-paid-for film equipment)? Did he off to share some of the loss that discarding that equipment represents? Oh, and about that virtual print fee....have you pocketed any of that money yet? Has it paid for your digital install and maintenance costs?
Sure, I am being facetious, but my point being that when someone comes into my establishment and tells me, here, use these goggles and get your staff to deal with them, especially since as you said, they are supposed to be my "partners," the fact that I am being TOLD, not ASKED, is what galls me.
And just out of curiosity, what happens if one of my halfwit ushers drops those goggles and they break....who gets charged? It's complicating my operation and that never comes without cost and it seems my "partners" aren't about to share that cost with me.
quote: Anslem Rayburn
You seem to think that if a measure doesn't stop piracy dead in it's tracks and immediately result in better fees for theaters and theater patrons it is a stupid waste of resources. I disagree. We are partners with the studios. They have every right to expect us to protect their property while we are renting it.
Now THIS is the way it should be done. If the studio is concerned about security and send THEIR paid people to police the audiences with whatever devices they want, be my guest. When we run previews, they send guards with the prints who are supposed to come up to the booth and sit there while I run the preview (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't -- it's five & half flights up with no elevator). Fine -- just tell me beforehand that you are sending someone as I have MY rules about that as well....partner. No objection.
And not for nuthin, but I haven't seen an usher or assistant manager or ANYONE come into a theatre where I was watching a movie for years now. It seems obvious to me that these theatres would have to change their staff -- more than likely even add some, because presently there staff is nowhere to be found when the film is out of frame for 15 minutes or when patrons actually start arguments or worse. So wherever they are when you need them, that's where they'll be but only they will be holding cool night-vision goggles while they are not in the theatre monitoring the audience. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
As for the crap codes -- there are quite lengthy treads about that as well. Look, there are allot of things patrons don't complain about but that doesn't mean that they are not making an impression, for better or for worse. I don't think you will find many people here who will accept the argument that if a patron doesn't complain, it's OK. Would you let lab splices remain, making a tear in the image -- hey, it's only one frame; no one will complain....they'll HARDLY notice?
If an exhibitor only reacted when patrons had to make an effort to complain about negative impressions, that business will suffer. Crap codes don't enhance presentation, they detract from it. For those of us in the industry, that's something that should be considered unacceptable, especially given the barely plausible argument that marring presentations for every single honest, paying customer who'll see that movie will somehow stop the revenue lost to piracy. Has anyone actually seen anyone go to jail for piracy due to a cap code trail? If there are such instances, making them known within the industry would go a long way to justifying the use of this highly questionable practice.
[ 07-20-2008, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006
|
posted 07-21-2008 10:02 AM
quote: Todd McCracken
I seem to remember that a company was marketing a IR led system that sat behind the screen that effectively rendered any video of a presentation unusable.
Out of curiousity, I did a bit of searching and couldn't find any info on a system exactly like you describe, but I did find these two press releases for something similar from Y2k5:
Press Release 1
Permlight, Osram use IR LEDs to stop movie piracy
17 Mar 2005
Permlight Products is using infrared LEDs from Osram Opto Semiconductors in a new LED system that prevents the use of digital camcorders in cinemas.
Permlight's Enbryten Piracy line of anti-piracy products uses Osram's recently introduced thin-film infrared power LED technology to transmit a harmless signal which is invisible to humans. The signal is directed towards movie audiences in cinema theaters, and will wash out any silicon-CCD-based digital camcorders, preventing signals from being recorded.
Manuel Lynch, Permlight's CEO, told LEDs Magazine that the system works by saturating the IR response of the camcorder detector array, in combination with emitting visible light at a variable frequency, above the human eye response but at levels the camcorders pick up.
The line of proprietary and patent pending anti-piracy technology uses a randomly generated pulsing algorithm that powers up to one hundred Osram Infrared Dragon LEDs. The Enbryten Piracy system does not affect infrared-based video surveillance or hearing-impaired audio systems.
The Enbryten Piracy system sells for between $1200-$5000, depending on the size of the screen. Each system consists of multiple nodes which use their own randomly generated signal - each and every system is unique and different, making it impossible for piraters to thwart. Coupled together with Permlight-recommended installation techniques, which range from shutting down projectors to sending warning messages to theaters managers in the event of tampering, a fault tolerant system can be established.
Estimates claim that the movie industry is losing $4 billion in lost revenues to piracy annually. Piraters videotape new releases and then mass produce low-cost DVDs which are sold on the black market. The US Federal Government has now made it a felony to record copyright-protected movies in cinemas.
"Technologies from digital projectors to watermarking have been pursued to track down the origins of pirated films," commented Manuel Lynch, president and CEO of Permlight Products. "None of these systems renders video cameras useless, nor can they compete with the cost effectiveness and simplicity of the Enbryten Piracy system."
"When I first saw this system I believed that it held potential to be nominated for a technical academy award," commented Karl Leahy, Marketing Manager of Osram's Infrared Technology. "Permlight's use of Osram's Infrared thin film technology is truly innovative and novel and shows the vast potential of this Infrared Dragon technology." Introduced in the fall of 2004, Osram's large format infrared technology has potential applications ranging from traditional data transmission and golf club swing analysis to covert security monitoring applications.
The final product, scheduled for introduction in April 2005, will include TIR lensing and Kinoform diffusers to create a vast array of different signal intensities and patterns. The system is patent-pending.
And here's another press release about the same system-
PressRelease2
* Permlight Enbryten Piracy LED system technology thwarts would be video
piraters
* OSRAM Thin Film Infrared LED behind the scenes
LAS VEGAS, ShoWest Tradeshow, March 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Permlight Products
Inc. announced today at the opening of ShoWest, the cinema industry's largest
gathering of Motion Picture professionals and Theatre Owners in the world,
that it had together with OSRAM Opto Semiconductors introduced a new LED
system for stopping movie piracy.
The Permlight Products Enbryten Piracy line of Anti-Piracy products uses
OSRAM's recently introduced thin film infrared power LED technology to
transmit a safe, harmless and human invisible signal into movie audiences to
wash out any silicon CCD based digital camcorders. The line of proprietary
and patent pending anti-piracy technology uses a randomly generated pulsing
algorithm that powers up to one hundred OSRAM Infrared Dragon LEDs using the
new thin film technology. The Enbryten Piracy system does not affect infrared
based video surveillance or hearing impaired audio systems.
Estimates claim that the movie industry is losing $4 billion in lost
revenues to piracy annually. Piraters videotape new releases and then mass
produce low cost DVDs which are sold on the black market. The US Federal
Government has now made it a felony to record copyright protected movies in
cinemas.
"Technologies from digital projectors to watermarking have been pursued to
track down the origins of pirated films," commented Manuel Lynch, President
and CEO of Permlight Products. "None of these systems renders video cameras
useless nor can they compete with the cost effectiveness and simplicity of the
Enbryten Piracy system. Permlight's patented thermal management technology
coupled together with the superior performance of OSRAM's thin film technology
makes for a compelling proposition to cinema operators."
The Enbryten Piracy system sells for between $1200-$5000, depending on the
size of the screen. Each system consists of multiple nodes which use their
own randomly generated signal so that each and every system is unique and
different making it impossible for piraters to thwart. Coupled together with
Permlight recommended installation techniques which range from shutting down
projectors to sending warning messages to theaters managers in the event of
tampering, a fault tolerant system can be established.
"When I first saw this system I believed that it held potential to be
nominated for a technical academy award," commented Karl Leahy, Marketing
Manager of OSRAM's Infrared Technology. "Permlight's use of OSRAM's Infrared
thin film technology is truly innovative and novel and shows the vast
potential of this Infrared Dragon technology." Introduced in the fall of
2004, OSRAM's large format infrared technology has potential applications
ranging from traditional data transmission, golf club swing analysis to covert
security monitoring applications.
Permlight Products demonstration of the technology at ShoWest booth 427 at
Ballys in Las Vegas comes in advance of the scheduled introduction in April
2005. The final product will include TIR lensing and Kinoform diffusers to
create a vast array of different signal intensities and patterns. The
anti-piracy is a patent pending system.
About Permlight Products Inc.
Permlight Products is a leading developer and manufacturer of thermally
managed LED lighting systems for signage, visual merchandising, safety
lighting, refrigeration/ freezer retrofit products, educational lighting
systems, and POP displays. Founded in 1995, Permlight has the longest track
record of supplying LED lighting systems that provide high brightness, low
voltage, long lifetime, and low maintenance. Using its enabling patented
thermal management techniques for spreading and dissipating heat Permlight is
well known for providing low cost solid state lighting systems.
About OSRAM Opto Semiconductors
OSRAM Opto Semiconductors is a wholly owned subsidiary of OSRAM, one of
the world's two leading lighting manufacturers. It offers its customers
solutions based on semiconductor technology for lighting, sensor and
visualization applications. The company employs more than 3,400 people
worldwide and operates sites in Regensburg (Germany), San Jose (USA) and
Penang (Malaysia). Sales for the year ending September 2004 totaled EUR
459 million, 11% of the total sales of OSRAM of EUR 4.2 billion. For more
information, visit http://www.osram-os.com
For further information, please contact Manuel Lynch, President and CEO of
Permlight Products Inc., +1-714-227-0556.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 07-21-2008 08:52 PM
Gee, if the MPAA spent $3,500 mean average cost for the Enbryten Piracy/Permlight system for 4500 screens, the hardware would cost them $15,750,000 for what sounds like a foolproof system. Add, say, another $15,750,000 for installation, and that would put an end to their piracy problem....at least the part that comes from off-screen copies. That's a drop in the bucket out of that 4 BILLION they are loosing (their own figures, which change btw, with every press release).
This system was ready in 2005. So were is it? Why isn't it in every theatre where MPAA member studios allow their product to be shown? Could it be that they really aren't all that serious about off-screen copies? Maybe because the MPAA knows they are just pulling those guestimate figures out of their asses? It wouldn't cost them a fraction of that 4 BILLION to put this system on every screen. But instead, they huff and puff and hand out this joke of a solution, night-vision goggles, with the inference, yet again, that piracy is cause by unscrupulous exhibitors, either by criminal theatre personnel, or by lax theatre security and poor management on the part of the exhibitors.
IMHO, MPAA members should bite the damn bullet and put their money where their mouth is -- if they are serious, here's a very viable, do-able solution; they should use it and stop whining already.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anslem Rayburn
Master Film Handler
Posts: 476
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 08-22-2008 12:07 AM
quote: Frank Angel
What hurts Rolex more -- some cheap knockoff from China that a potential customer can spot as a fake from miles away, or one that even the experts have a hard time distinguishing and which can be sold by not-so-ethical jewelry stores?
Whichever one is being mass produced and sold to the most people. A DVD rip is much nicer to watch that a camcorded version, you are correct. But that doesn't automatically mean that is what is out there.
All but 1 bootlegged movie I have ever seen any part of has been a camcorded version. 1 (which was shown in detention back in high school) was a screener video. Every bootlegged movie friends have ever talked about seeing were camcorded versions.
Based on my personal experience, I believe that most pirated movies are camcorded, not screener rips. Therefore, based on my personal experience, I believe that they are the bigger problem.
And camcording is definitely happening at a fairly regular rate, whether you think it's a problem or not:
quote: MPAA
Hong Kong - Operation Takedown, an Asia-Pacific wide anti-piracy enforcement operation launched by the Motion Picture Association (MPA) in May 2008, concluded at the end of July 2008. The operation resulted in the arrest of 461 suspected pirates, 56 camcorders caught in the act, as well as seizures of more than 7.5 million pirated optical discs and 1,000 optical disc burners, capable of producing hundreds of thousands of pirated movies a year and potentially millions in illicit revenue.
Nearly 600 raids were undertaken by enforcement authorities in 12 countries across the Asia-Pacific during Operation Takedown. As with previous similar operations, a focus on camcording as a root of piracy and the operation showed results - 56 of them were nabbed. The raids were also aimed at targeting the producers, distributors and sellers of pirated movies within the region, and particularly on the Internet. In tandem, governments across the region began to tighten their laws on camcording,
recognizing the damage that camcording cause to local film industries. Thailand is the latest to join the fray with a multi-pronged approach that includes a public outreach campaign, use of night vision goggles for cinema staff and a reward scheme, measures that were introduced in Hong Kong in July. In Hong Kong, plain clothes police officers will also patrol cinemas.
In the Philippines, a City Ordinance that criminalizes camcording in Manila has been passed and makes it punishable with jail time and fines. A 24-hour hotline has also been
set up to report instances of camcording. MPA in the meantime conducted training for cinema staff to identify camcorders and
prepped enforcement officers with basic knowledge of copyright law and to identify pirated products all around Asia.
Another highlight of Operation Takedown was the first ever cross-border enforcement action between Singapore and Malaysia against a DVD-smuggling syndicate operating online in both countries, in which four men were arrested.
In Taiwan, authorities seized a total of 548 burners during Operation Takedown. 329 burners capable of producing more than 15 million pirated discs a year were seized in one single raid, the biggest burner lab bust since 2004. Nearby in Hong Kong, officers raided 17 locations bringing down a substantial criminal syndicate smuggling in pirated discs from the Mainland China.
Chinese authorities have also been on piracy alert in the run up to the Olympics, clamping down on DVD piracy and running public campaigns against online piracy. Among the highlights of Operation Takedown were:
China: 21,757 infringing files taken down
4,114,051 pirated optical discs seized
Korea: 530,472 infringing files taken down
Malaysia: 182 burners seized
230,183 pirated optical discs seized
Philippines: 39 camcord interdictions
2,432,631 pirated optical discs seized
Taiwan: 154 raids conducted
548 burners seized
121 people arrested
Thailand: 141 raids conducted
110 people arrested
"Our anti-piracy actions have brought down a significant number of pirates all around theregion, whether they be burning DVDs in a lab somewhere or selling via the Internet. While we are pleased that 56 camcorders were caught red handed, there is still a long way to go to deter camcorders from thinking about breaking the law,” said Mike Ellis, President and Managing Director, Asia-Pacific for the Motion Picture Association. “With support from law enforcement agencies and strengthened laws against camcording, intellectual property rights protection will continue to remain top priority in this region.”
In the past four years, MPA has conducted eight bi-annual operations resulting in over 5,400 arrests and 39.5 million pirated optical discs seized.
Operation Takedown operations were conducted in Australia, China, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, the Philippines, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and Thailand.
# # #
Piracy in Asia
A comprehensive study aimed at producing a more accurate picture of the impact that piracy has on the film industry including, for the first time, losses due to internet piracy, recently calculated that the MPA studios lost US$6.1 billion to worldwide piracy in 2005. About US$2.4 billion was lost to bootlegging*, US$1.4 billion to illegal copying* and US$2.3 billion to Internet piracy. Of the US$6.1 billion in lost revenue to the studios, approximate US$1.2 billion came from piracy across the Asia-Pacific region, while piracy in the U.S. accounted for US$1.3 billion.
In 2007, the MPA’s operations in the Asia-Pacific region investigated more than 36,200 cases of piracy and assisted law enforcement officials in conducting nearly 13,000 raids. These activities resulted in the seizure of more than 31 million illegal optical discs, 40 factory optical disc production lines and 6,400 optical disc burners, as well as the initiation of more than 10,000 legal actions.
*Bootlegging: Obtaining movies by either purchasing an illegally copied VHS/DVD/VCD or acquiring hard copies of bootleg movies.
*Illegal copying: Making illegal copies for self or receiving illegal copies from friends of a legitimate VHS/DVD/VCD.
*Internet piracy: Obtaining movies by either downloading them from the Internet without paying or acquiring hard copies of illegally downloaded movies from friends or family.
56 cases of camcording in 3 months is pretty prevalent. It's someone being caught just about every other day.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Printer-friendly view of this topic