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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Disney re-working "Beauty and the Beast" in 3-D (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Disney re-working "Beauty and the Beast" in 3-D
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-27-2008 08:04 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
They have used a variety of methods in transferring those drawings to acetate cels for inking or into the computer.
Bobby, do you know it the acetate cells suffer from the same physical characteristics and shortcomings of tri-acetate film, i.e., do you think they shrink and can be subject to VS? If that is the case, it might be as labourious to align those elements as it is going back to do restoration of 3 strip techicolor matrixes. Unless the cells have different properties than film.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 11-27-2008 09:06 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It took some digging, but I found it. The system I was talking about is the "Computer Animation Production System", or CAPS. The Little Mermaid was the first to use it, but only for the final scene where they sailed away under the rainbow. The Rescuers Down Under was the first feature to use it for 100% of the movie, then Beauty & The Beast followed.

So, Frank... there are no cels. There never were. While Bobby may be right that the drawings were done on paper, they were scanned, cleaned up and "painted" in the digital realm. The shots were composed in the computer and then output to film.

Link.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 11-27-2008 10:42 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Bobby, do you know it the acetate cells suffer from the same physical characteristics and shortcomings of tri-acetate film, i.e., do you think they shrink and can be subject to VS?
I had an acquaintence who was a commercial animator. (TV spots, coroporate films, etc. Had a complete OXBERRY animation stand in his house- they had to dig a pit in his basement to accomodate its' 12ft height)

Anyway, he had STACKS of old cells sitting around from projects he'd worked on.

I once asked him almost the same question.

As I recall, he said the main problem was paint flaking off the more the cells were handeled.

Also, the cells had a tendency to stick together if you stored them without a thin piece of paper between them before stacking.

I do remember him saying that there was a certain brand of "cheap" cells that he used for low-budget projects that eventually would shrink slightly and turn a little yellow after about two years of storage. They were useless after that.

I also recall his entire basement studio had a sort of "plastic" smell to it.
(Sort of like new car seats!)
But I don't remember ever sensing a vinegar odor.

As for re-working and 'tweaking' classic films-
I remember back in the early 80's when Ted Turner was colorizing
everything, one writer quipped:
"I hear Ted's next project is to buy up all the Marx Brothers
movies and make Harpo talk"

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-27-2008 12:48 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Disney's CAPS system is mentioned in The Pixar Story, a very good documentary about the history of Pixar. It's on the 2nd disc of Wall•E. Some of the people featured in the documentary aren't with us anymore, such as the late Joe Ranft and the last of the "9 old men" Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston. Highly recommended.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-27-2008 03:45 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CAPS was only 2K. We all know that 2K is inferior, like the devil.

I'll have to watch that Wall-E feature, but usually the second discs are invisible to me out of sheer disinterest.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-27-2008 11:12 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe instead of just 3-D-izing the existing Beauty, they are going to make a new computer animated 3-D Beauty and re-create the animation in snazzy new Toy-Story-like 3-D graphics. I wouldn't be surprised to see this. They already have the story and the score and everything, so it could be done on the cheap.

Otherwise I think it's going to look like Bobby predicts: a bunch of flat cutouts floating in front of a flat backdrop.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 11-28-2008 07:38 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't forget that there is a whole lot of 3D shading and texturing in that movie already on all of the characters. Just moving the shadows very slightly on everything will go a long way in convincing your brain that the characters are all solid.

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-10-2008 11:15 AM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Found these quotes from the producer of the 3-D BATB on /Film.Com

quote:
We didn’t want to do the layers of flatness. There are some old Chip and Dale cartoons that do that. One of the first 3D movies is called Starchaser and it was just layers of flat, kind of viewmaster-looking flat. I think what we we want to do is not do that, and create a truly dimensional environment. It’s a very hybrid approach. There’s some proprietary software that Disney created for this, and it actually bends the drawings around geometry. You take a character like Belle or the Beast and you create geometry in the computer that matches the image on the screen, and then bend the original movie around that geometry, be it the character or a background, a tree, or a building or whatever. That creates very dimensional, round faces.
quote:
We wanted to deliver the original movie. We didn’t want to add new drawings or take away anything from the original movie. I think all you’ll notice is that now suddenly there is great depth to everything on the screen. The effect is somewhat like the Haunted Mansion Madame Leota when you go through the ride at Disneyland and they project a piece of film onto a mannequin head. When that projector hits the mannequin head, it bends the light around it and it looks like it’s 3D. It’s not unlike that, where you’re taking the film, a character like Belle, and projecting her on a digital, rounded surface mannequin head. When it hits that, it breaks out into a 3D looking object that then you can photograph with a right eye, left eye, and create the illusion of depth.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-10-2008 11:49 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The effect is somewhat like the Haunted Mansion Madame Leota when you go through the ride at Disneyland and they project a piece of film onto a mannequin head. When that projector hits the mannequin head, it bends the light around it and it looks like it’s 3D.
Well I've seen the Haunted Mansion within the last 6 months and I can tell you Madame Leota does NOT look 3-D, she looks like a face projected on a ball. Of course maybe with 3-D effects added (left/right eye material) it would be better. The Leota figure of course is just a 2-D image.

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