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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: Was theatre exhibition really that much better 'back in the day'?
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-25-2009 10:14 PM
Regarding digital sound, the arrival of it did make things better for a few years. Since then much the ethic of maintaining sound systems has gone into the toilet. Sorry, but that's what I am seeing in a number of theaters I visit in Oklahoma, Colorado and Texas.
In the early 1990s, 5.1 digital surround sound had a real novelty to it. Finally an ordinary neighborhood theater could have the potential of delivering flagship theater audio typically associated with exclusive 70mm presentations without the trouble of booking a $15,000 70mm mag-striped film print.
When Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS were brand new items more movie theater companies were paying a LOT more attention to sound. They were doing more to EQ the auditoriums and get that startling, loud dynamic sound going -even if it leaked into other auditoriums. The THX certification effort peaked during that time. The theater circuits kept it up until stadium seating became popular and DVD arrived. Several years ago things really started to slip.
Today, I think it's a pretty rare occurrence for someone to visit a movie theater and find the audio part of the chain to be running in tip top shape. Not enough people at the top give enough of a fart to pay the extra money to maintain good quality audio in commercial movie theaters. Much of it is pretty abysmal.
I think the current situation is a sad contradiction. We have "Digital Cinema" rolling out in thousands of theater booths. D-cinema boasts UNCOMPRESSED linear PCM audio in 20-bit or 24-bit depth. Yet this unprecedented leap in quality of audio delivery is largely being wasted on theaters with way out of tune EQ, blown speaker drivers and plain overall wimpy assed audio quality.
One of the things I enjoyed about the 1100+ seat GCC Northpark #1 screen in Dallas was the audio system had more than enough "thump" in it to make the air in my chest move and not sound distorted. The thing that really pisses me off is that kind of audio quality is NOT exclusive to a gigantic 1100 seat premiere class theater. Just about any theater with good quality equipment can deliver much of the same effect simply by properly maintaining the equipment. The "suits" don't give a single shit about that, much less two shits.
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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 08-25-2009 10:38 PM
I agree Bobby. I remember when I was a kid/teen, in the 90s, digital sound was all the rage at the cinema. Seeing those trailers play before the film meant you were getting amazing sound. It was this sort of marketing and execution that got me into the technical side of cinema in the first place. I remember being more excited for a DTS trailer than the movie itself!
And yes, those systems sounded AWESOME! When I began working at the same theatre I frequented as a teen, the systems were still well maintained and sounded fantastic. After about 3 years, they went to shit for the most part, and there wasn't much I could do. Techs not able to visit the building, sound components being installed without an EQ. Hell, speaker drivers in surrounds were blown for almost 2 years before they finally "noticed", even though I had mentioned it on every report I ever did for a tech for 2 years.
Alas, the place is still rocking in a few houses, but not like the 90s. I also think my perception is different because some of the mixes from the 90s were just better than some of today. Where are you Gary Rydstrom?
AJG
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-26-2009 03:42 PM
quote: Jonathan Althaus
My biggest pet peeve is starting out of frame. I've kicked many projectionists out of booth for that exact reason.
Well, Johathan, you would have been looking around for a hand granade to take this theatre out if you were with me in a first run Regal (then UA) theatre a year or so ago. The first FIVE trailers were run with a frameline in the middle of the screen. Forget about starting misframed, this thing was playing for almost a half an hour out-of-frame. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
SURELY, someone would fix this before the feature, thinks I. No such luck -- the feature starts misframed and the audience begins stomping on the floor. I take out my cell and call the theatre, listen to the schedule of ALL 15 of their screens until finally they give the manager's number which I call and speak to someone who didn't know what a misframe was, and quite frankly didn't seem at all to care -- his main curiousity seemed to be trying to figure out how I was calling his office and from where. I dropped the "misframe" reference and just told him the film was "broken" in theatre 7. That he seemed to understand. When someone finally did attend to it 4 or 5 minutes into the feature, they just racked it down so you could no longer see the frame line, but it was painfully obvious that it was still at the very bottom of the full frame image (it was supposed to be 1.85); the composition was ruined. Actors were decapitated. The thought of calling him back and trying to explain about properly framing a full frame 1.85 film, but it seemed much too much beyond the scope of my ability to speak without screaming and pulling out my hair, which I cannot afford to do. Mind you, this was a first run, big chain theatre, not some subrun house.
Here's a good lesson which I learned from this -- before you go to any theatre, make sure you have the manager's office number already programmed into your cellphone; should something as simple as a misframe not be fixed in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of competence, call the office and tell the manager about your hand grenade.
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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-27-2009 11:01 AM
The exhibition industry faces a very different world from the one that existed years ago. It's easy to say that showmanship has decreased, but back then the theatre owners/managers were partners in promoting a film. A manager could order a "press book" with add slicks, you could order radio spots, and eventually even TV spots so that you could do you own advertising. The studios would have contests with rewards for managers to come up with innovative promotions. This would pay off because you hold on to the film long enough for this to pay off. This is no longer the case. Now a film must have a huge opening weekend, or it's gone in a week or two.
Of course, we are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room, home video. With a 90 day or less window to the home video release, the public no longer has to go out to see a movie. Those who want state of the art will set up elaborate home theatre system, those that don't care will watch on the TV. Yes, people still like to get out, and movies are still one of the best entertainment values for the price, but unlike in the past, there are many choices for viewing a given film besides the theatre.
Another issue is that back in the 1970's, the motion picture business largely abandoned the family audience. It is difficult to say whether entire family movie going decreased do to the fact that the majority of films were geared to adults, or whether the studios geared to adults because family's stopped attending on a regular basis. Whichever it was, decades of tradition where an entire family would attend the movies weekly was broken. We live with the repercussions of that today, where the majority of movies are targeted at teens thru 20 somethings, the generation with no tradition of going out for a movie.
As too projection, I entered the business at the tail end of the carbon arc/reel to reel days. Overall, I think it is a wash as to which era was better. I feel a loss that today's booth ushers know nothing more than how to thread and press start, but I think projection is better today in most locations, and in the short term D-Cinema will make it even better.
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-27-2009 11:57 AM
I've seen theatres that ordered "trailers" receive TV spots and clips on 3/4" and, later, Beta tapes (and probably 1" before that). This is within the last few years, so I assume that it is still possible for theatres to get this stuff to promote whatever they are showing, at least for films from smaller distributors (unless the distributors are just confused enough that they are sending 35mm trailers to TV stations while sending TV materials to theatres). Unfortunately, they don't, for the most part. Everything depends on national ad campaigns now, and it's been a while since I have seen or heard of an interesting local promotion for any film.
(Side question: how did/do radio spots come? On 45s, CDs, magnetic tape, carts, etc.?)
One other related point that is worth making is that, now, films have less time to find an audience through word-of-mouth. Everything needs to have a huge opening weekend, or else it is doomed to a short theatrical life and limited advertising after the first week. This is sad, especially since many films that were duds in their theatrical releases have become hits (or, at least, "cult classics") in the video market. At least in this area, the "midnight show" has gone from being rather popular to nearly dead in the last few years (I don't know why), which does not help in this regard.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-27-2009 10:27 PM
As some are discovering...it all depends on what you consider "back in the day" is.
Take this enlightened response:
quote: Chad Souder
Sound - better today
Average screen size - better today
Seats - better today (by a looong shot)
Sight lines - better today (and some thought stadium was a fad)
Choice of movies/movies per year - better today
Concession food choices - better today
Likelihood your show will be sold out - better today (as in less likely)
Film stock - better today
Price - better back then
Individual ownership in projection quality - better back then
Showmanship - better back then
Customer behavior - better back then
Pre-show advertising - better back then
Projectionists' blood alcohol content - higher back then
If one were to compare a '70s to mid '80s theatre...much of this would be accurate. If one were to compare much of this to a '60s and before...well some things would definitely change.
Sound - better today as compared to the '70s...worse as compared to the '60s and before. That is, the mixes are generally worse and just "cookie cutter" Today...must is in Left/Right, dialog is in the center...god knows what in the surrounds. I'd say generally the surrounds are better than yesteryear...the rest...far worse today. In the '70s, you normally had blah mono and uninspired at that...with some notable exceptions, for sure...Star Wars, Close Encounters and the list would go on...but by and large..blah.
The people that mixed in the 60's and prior..when they did stereo or 6-track mixes...did a phenomenal job, considering their equipment availability (and that will be a theme with my response...who is doing what given the technology available). Listen to a mix like The Sound of Music...it is truly great and I can't think of anything mixed today that really is as good as that. Today's folks are afraid of panning dialog, for the most part...they also bury the dialog behind music and effects...they have no sense of balance...one could listen to the mixes of yesteryear without blasting it too. Just like with modern CDs...in order to appreciate the LOUDS, you need the quiets and in-between too. All loud all the time sucks...turning the volume down just makes the dialog go unnaturally soft.
I'll take good mono over mediocre stereo every time. We've had mag sound since the 1950s...it is discrete and can play all of the frequencies you are going to feel/hear...digital merely brought it to the masses...which is a good thing but it isn't better than good mag and I'd argue that good mag beats good digital.
Average screen size - better today if compared to the '70s/mid '80s crackerboxes, twin-ems or triple-ems...etc. Far worse than the '60s and earlier palaces. Today you get a screen that is often too big for the room. It is like sitting in the front 1/4 of a movie palace...you pick up all of the flaws but few if any of the benefits. Normally, the theatres of the '60s and prior had their screens fit the space quite nicely and it wasn't required nor desired to go wall-to-wall or ceiling-to-floor. One often had a much more comfortable experience.
The crackerboxes of the '70s/'80s are embarassing...how many had aisles right down the middle too so the "best" seats were the aisle? And the sound leakage was just great too! At least they didn't charge you for two films even if you heard two!
Seats - better today in many theatres. There have been good and crappy seats in any era, that is for sure. In fact, seatback-to-seatback spacing has been anywhere from great to painful and no decade has a lock on that one. Often the real old theatres were designed for shorter legged people, it seems. I do not think that high-backs are inherently better but they are not inherently worse. I have had real comfortable shows in both low backs and high backs...I've had painful shows in both too! When the Uptown in Washington DC got their high-back seats in the '90s...we had continual daily complaints! They just were not shaped well unless you HAD Scoliosis! I do know that many of the Haywood-Wakefield seats of the '60s turned into squeaky son of a guns!
Sight lines - better today than many '70s/'80 theatres but no better than most '60s and before. Stadium seating was the answer to the incompetent architects that didn't do proper sightlines. Slope-floor theatres can be designed to offer all of the benefits of stadium but are inherently more ADA friendly, more elderly friendly and are less likely to trip up folks. Furthermore...stadium theatres tend to have the people enter/exit in a much more obvious manner than the old traditional 3-section theatre (my personal favorite).
Choice of movies/movies per year no better today and MUCH WORSE the further you go back. In any year you can find your good films and your turkeys. Anyone know how many titles where in 2.55:1 CinemaScope? It is on the order of 400-500 titles...that is from a 2-3 year period! Most folks of today don't realize how prolific movies were once upon a time. It is one reason so many have been lost...there were so many of them, very few were valued beyond its initial release. It would be like buying a new pair of shoes every day (and you had the funds for that)...and then worrying about keeping more than the ones you particularly liked (felt good).
Most folks today don't have a conception of just how big STAR WARS was...the fact it played over a year in many cities...it is particularly hard given the latest offerings...the closest you could find to that sort of big success today is Titanic...now over 10-years old and it wasn't 1/10 the phenomenon of Star Wars. Go back a decade...and you have many films playing over a year...2001, The Sound of Music, Hello Dolly....etc. It isn't like there were not other offerings...in fact there were MANY. It isn't like there are not good films today...there are (Thank God) but the occurrence of that level of buzz and excitement isn't there as much. Certainly home video has cut way in on that too. I'm sure Harry Potter fans would watch their film more and longer in theatres if they knew it wouldn't be available in the home for years.
Concession food choices - better today in most respects. I do miss the better popcorn cooked in such oils as Coconut and REAL Butter...the lack of it cuts way back on my popcorn consumption. However, the '70s concession food items were some of the worst selection and often stale.
Likelihood your show will be sold out - less likely
Film stock - better today BUT...print quality was better before. Once upon a time prints were struck from the camera or early generation negative. They were FAR steadier then and real technicolor was often used until the mid '70s. Like your income...it isn't what you make, it is what you keep. The feeling today is that it is better to protect the original elements for future generations than to risk damaging those elements pleasing the generation they were made for! I can see it both ways. Certainly protection copies should be made but one should do a better job of putting their best foot forward. Today's prints are embarrassing and incompetently made. There is also no excuse for having not utilized 65/70mm better by now..even for a digital release, it is better source medium. One thing yesteryear definitely slams today on is making the most of ALL that is/was available. People did more with less back then. Today, people do less with more.
Price - better today...actually. Compare movie prices as the index of inflation rises...movie prices do not keep up. Compare movie prices with the national minimum wage...movie prices do not keep up. I remember paying $5.00 to see The Empire Strikes Back in Washington DC. That was 29 years ago...minimum wage was bopping around the $3.10 mark (I don't recall the exact figure)...today what is the minimum wage $7.25/hour? It is more than double what it was in 1980...ticket prices in a Washington DC theatre are only double in 29 years.
Individual ownership in projection quality - better back then primarily because there were more independent owners and MOST (though certainly not all) were showmen back then...they set high standards....however, in ANY group you are going to find some that stand out for being better or worse than the norm.
Showmanship - better back then, for the most part.
Customer behavior - better back then and the theatre had "ushers" that actually ensured a pleasant experience
Pre-show advertising - less to non-existent back then though sponsorship is nothing new to theatres...theatre clocks with the local drug store other ads were certainly used as far back as one could imagine. One thing is for sure though...back then, one didn't have to wade though a lot of crap before their show but they did have cartoons, newsreels...and such. Also credits were very short and at the beginning, not at the end (other than possibly "The Players.")
So again, depending on the era one is comparing as "back then" today either is better, equivalent or worse. It also depends on one's perspective. I do find that most theatres today uninspired. I find that the reuse of relatively recent titles of movies that were just fine in their previous release to show what a drought of ideas Hollywood has.
On balance though...the bang for the buck back then was better, in my opinion.
Steve
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