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Author Topic: Xnsferring VHS to DVD -or- capturing to PC Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2009 01:10 AM                     Joe, I agree with you on the frame information but, for VHS, I don't think the color compression matters. Even with a time base corrector, you'll never get color out of a VHS tape that's better than a DVD can reproduce on SD TV. For rescuing VHS tapes, I still think DVDs are more than sufficient. Rescuing VHS onto Blu-Ray would be like putting racing slicks on a Model-T Ford. Brad, I like your idea about extra backups. I'm not trying to be a dick but it's a good way to upsell the customer. After all, it is extra work for me (even if it's only a 15 minutes) and it is extra value for the customer. I only charge $30 for what I'm giving them now. If the customer refuses the offer, there's virtually no way for them to complain if/when their disks degrade. I gave them the option. I never use cheap media for projects like this. I always use "name brand" disks. I try to get disks with azure blue or purple dye and avoid green/cyan dye disks. I don't remember the specifics but I remember reading that the green/cyan disks degrade faster plus they aren't as reliable in as wide a selection of players as the blue/purple ones are. Most name brand media like Memorex, Verbatim, etc. are using the blue/purple dyes now. I like your dupe strategy too. I will think about doing that for MY DVDs in storage now. It's also another service I can offer customers, as well. I'm not trying to be a greedy capitalist but, WTF, I'm doing the work. The customer gets value out of it. I should get paid for it. Right? Though, I have thought about "officially" going into business, right now, I limit myself to family, friends and referrals. Out of all the projects I've done since the year began, I have taken in just a few hundred dollars. You guys are getting me thinking again. Maybe I should put an add in the local Penny Saver. Oh, yeah! I NEVER put labels on disks. I have a labeler but I only used it a few times. The first time I saw a label come off in a player, I put the thing up on the shelf. I use nothing but Sharpies, now.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-30-2009 01:29 AM                     Charge 'em an extra $5 per archival backup. It is plenty fair and very smart. Personally though, I think your $30 is a bit TOO cheap. I am surprised you aren't $50 for a 2 hour transfer.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-30-2009 01:35 AM                     quote: Joe Redifer DVD is that it uses compression which lessens the quality of the video Dang, maybe some can find the need to revive the old laserdisc method - in making LD recoders since the video was uncompressed FM analog information. ..just a thought ... - Monte  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 09-30-2009 01:53 AM                        Actually LaserDisc also has uncompressed stereo PCM digital audio. You can even add a Dolby Digital 5.1 track for your VHS backups in addition to that stereo PCM. Then have a mono analog FM backup. Too bad the video doesn't seem to last very well on LDs. quote: Brad Miller Also NEVER put a label on the disc, use a Sharpie marker to label it. Thank you! There are so many ways that sticky labels can ruin a DVD that it just isn't worth it. Sure, a Sharpie may not look nice and professional, but the integrity of the data will be better. If you want "professional", stamp out a thousand copies with silk-screened artwork. Perfect for backing up those episodes of Charles in Charge recorded in VHS EP!  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-30-2009 02:03 AM                     What do you guys think about blank DVD media that is inkjet printable on the label side?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-30-2009 03:36 AM                     quote: Joe Redifer Too bad the video doesn't seem to last very well on LDs. Would that video dedregation caused by the usage of acrylic instead of the polycarbonate that is used on the present optical media?  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 09-30-2009 04:07 AM                        I don't know, but I watched some of my LDs recently and noticed that they had little blips and small lines here and there around the screen on occasion. Things that definitely weren't there years and years ago when they were new. LaserDisc video is analog so even minor wear can be seen onscreen.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2009 10:54 AM                     Brad, I started out charging $50 for 2-hour disks but people complained. I knocked it down to $30 but I specify that is just "copy and burn." No menus. No titles. No editing. Just put in the disk and play. If the disk spills over two hours, I can increase the compression up till about the 150 minute mark. (Joe is probably getting the shakes right now! ) But, if their material goes over the two-hour mark by more than a few minutes, that will cost them another disk and another $30. If they want menus or title cards, that's another $5 each and that only gets them a template. Photos, custom graphics and "motion" menus cost more. I "make up" the prices depending on how much work I feel like doing. Typically, I calculate it based on a $50/hr. labor rate. (Yes, I know that pros charge anywhere from $100 to $200 dollars per hour.) This is why I like your ideas about extra copies and backups. It lets me keep the prices down for people who want things cheap. It lets me offer extra service to people who want it and it keeps people off my back when they complain that their disks don't work any more. Erie has a depressed economy, even over the national economy which is in a big recession right now. People aren't spending money the way they once did. (or "should" spend money.) Many people just don't understand the process of how video tape rescue works. As much as I try to explain to them, they just don't "get" why I should charge them $50/hr. That's why I went down to $30 but I charge them for all the extras I might be inclined to do for them (based on how much I like the person) if I charged more. Sean, If I had the money or had the amount of business to justify the expense I would have bought a label printer that prints right on the disk. It's just not worth it right now. Maybe some day... I had considered getting some professionally screened disks that have my name on the top part and blank spaces to write in the title, date and client's name but again, not enough business and the expense is too much. Maybe later. As far as I know, silk screened or inkjet disks don't have the problems stick-on labels do.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 10-03-2009 04:38 PM                        Have you ever looked at Lightscribe discs? I've seen some very well-done Lightscribe labels, but I've also seen some bad ones. Like everything else, it's all about skill and attention to detail. I've done DVD work in the past, and dealing with inket labels was an experience I hope to never repeat! The end result looked pretty good, but I wonder if they are playable after five years of time passed.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-04-2009 10:34 PM                     We have a Lightscribe at work. They work as advertised and, if you know how to do it right, you can produce some nice labels but there are drawbacks. First, they take a long time to burn. Some times they take 20 minutes or more. The burn time is dependent on the complexity of the design and the contrast level the burner runs at. Obviously, the more printed area there is on a disk, the longer it takes to burn but, if set to the darkest contrast level, a complex design can take "forever" to burn. Disks are more expensive, as well. About double the cost of regular. They are also sensitive to ultraviolet light. If left in the sun long enough, they will fade. I think Lightsribe is okay but it's certainly not usable for producing more than a few disks at a time. If it was really as great as the advertisers often make it out to be, wouldn't all DVD burners have it?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-25-2010 07:19 AM                     Okay...so I have an iMac (Intel based, 5,1 version) and would like to use it to make the occasional DVD from some form of analog source. I don't plan to be doing much of any one type of source but it could be VHS, LD, phone, Camera, DVR...who knows. But from those sources, I want to be able to edit "work on" and output DVDs. This is strictly for myself/family. Note, I suspect many will be just strictly load onto the computer and burn to DVD First, is there a recommended device (USB/Firewire) to inputting the analog video signals (and audio)? I will definitely want S-Video, Composite and Component available with component being the least needed). And once that device is connected, do the typical Apple programs that hang around OS X (I'm running 10.6.3) allow for burning DVDs (like iDVD)? I also have Toast...it is probably dated now...Toast 7 Titanium. Steve  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 04-25-2010 12:43 PM                        Regarding Monte's Q and Joe's comment on LDs, yes some LDs (depended on the pressing plant) were known to flex or warp just enough to break their edge seals, thus allowing oxidation of the aluminum layer to occur. Once that begins happening, eventually the disc will become unplayable. In its early stages this "Laser Rot" looks like colored snow during playback. It is also to see the oxidized areas of the aluminum layer by visual inspection of the disc. As Joe mentioned, since LDs are analog, any scratches or other surface issues will readily show up during playback, just like LPs and 45s... or film! LDs used a plastic that was hygroscopic - it absorbed moisture from the air. Combined with the large size of the discs themselves, the warping forces could become large enough to cause the edges to split, thus exposing the aluminum layer to the outside. DVDs use a different plastic that is not hygroscopic. That, combined with the DVD's much smaller size, make them much less susceptible to warping. DVDs can have edge failures too, just not ones caused by warping. * * * * * I too am interested in seeing what tools you all are using for doing these kind of video transfers. Out of the several hundred LDs (and a handful of VHSs/S-VHSs) I still have, there are a few I'd like to transfer to digital storage and playback.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-25-2010 01:51 PM                        Steve, you can probably do all that (except for a component connection) with any MiniDV camcorder switched to AV input mode. Capture through the firewire and into iMovie. Then burn with iDVD. Don't ask me how to use those programs, though, as they are extraordinarily bizarre. They are not built for editors. They are built for grandma.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-25-2010 02:37 PM                     I don't have a miniDV camcorder...or any camcorder, for that matter. However, since posting this...I looked at the tutorials on iMovie and iDVD...it looks like for ones basic DVD making, Apple has it pretty figured out...as Joe puts it...for "Grandma." There isn't any real way to sweeten it any though there are "effects" on can do. As for video capture devices...I did find several...one of which from a company that I use, and like, from the professional world. Black Magic-Design. In fact, they have a "home" version of their video capture device that does indeed support Component as well as S-Video and Composite! The down side...I haven't found a good means to move the digital multi-channel audio over. This is something I definitely want from some of my LDs. I have an RF->AC3 converter for the LD player too. How does one deal with AC3 or some image improvements on an iMac or is that pretty much the domain of Final Cut? I also see that Toast is up to version 10 and they have their own "drop-n-save" means of going from source file to DVD burning. My version 7 does have the ability to burn DVDs but it seems a bit more basic. There is even a Toast package that included the capture device in the box with a basic version of Toast (by Roxio). Steve  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 04-25-2010 05:17 PM                        That's all about Final Cut Studio. Drop a grand on it and then we'll talk. However recording the 6-channel audio will require special hardware unless you record 2 channels at a time and then sync them back up... a pain for a full length movie! Toast sucks. In fact, ALL Mac disc burning apps suck. Toast is fine if you want to burn a music CD, a Mac ISO or a DVD where the VIDEO_TS folder already exists, but beyond that it offers very little flexibility. It cannot burn ISO + MP3 or ISO + AIFF/WAV and the like.  |  IP: Logged

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