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Topic: Company reading company issued phone text messages.

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-18-2010 09:37 PM

It is not usual for communications by cell phone or text message to be monitored in real time by a third party. Sure, it's possible but it is not a common occurrence.

Everybody knows or should know that communications can be monitored by the cell phone company or by the government but this normally only happens as part of an investigation of a crime or a problem in national security. Even so, a warrant is usually needed. Therefore, it is NOT common practice for cell phones to be monitored. It is not common practice for communication to be monitored in real time and it is certainly not common for communications to be monitored by somebody who is not the government or the cell phone company.

Therefore, a cell phone user could have a reasonable expectation of privacy and rightly believe that his phone calls and text messages are private.

I've got no idea what kind of company would feel the need to monitor other peoples' communications in real time like that. Are they a government contractor or a firm that has a stake in national security? Is it a nuclear power plant or something?

It doesn't matter whether the company has the right to monitor communications. It probably does. That's not the issue, AFAIAC. It is the issue of whether the person had fair notice.

Again, I don't think any ordinary company would have a policy of monitoring communications like that. I don't see why most companies would need to. And, because I think there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, I believe that an ordinary person could rightly believe that his communication would NOT be monitored.

Because of this, I think the company should give fair warning and NOT by printing it in the back of an employee handbook somewhere or in small type at the bottom of a cell phone contract. The employee needs to have this spelled out to him. He needs to be specifically warned.

Yes, I think a company has the right to do so if it thinks this practice is in its best interest. I'll say it again, this is something that can ruin trust between management and employees and turn the work atmosphere into an "us versus them" mentality on both sides. Management would look down on and distrust employees. Employees would hate and distrust management. The place could literally take on a prison mentality where it is always the guards squaring off against the inmates.

The solution to all this is simple: Just tell people.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-19-2010 01:35 AM

quote: Randy Stankey
It is the issue of whether the person had fair notice.

Which this is the very simple case here.

Yet, what is very interesting that this company where this employee works at, screams on that fair practices should be implemented, yet they can do the Januvian Syndrome stunt by turning the other face to the employees and decide that they don't need to be treated fairly.

Major case of a double standard operation ...

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-19-2010 01:38 AM

One of our off duty officers that does security for us recently stopped using his department issued phone for personal business do the the fact that the Supreme Court is (and after consulting with FOP lawyers reasonably) expected to over turn the 9th Circuit decision because the policy was stated in writing even though a department head verbally stated something contradicting that written policy.

Either way, if I was issued a phone, I wouldn't use it to conduct personal business, because the company automatically has access to all communication logs since they pay the bill. The grey area is if they give you the option to pay for any additional features or overages.

I don't even fully expect privacy being part of a "family" plan, since the account is in my sister's name and she has access to each phone's statement detail.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-19-2010 01:59 AM

Communication logs and statement details are one thing.

Real time monitoring of communication by a third party who is not the phone company or who is not working for the government is a whole completely different thing.

If my company pays my cell phone bills, yes, they get the statement and, yes they can see a listing of the calls I make or a count of the number of text messages I send or the amount of data I transmit and receive. I fully expect that. However, I do not expect my phone calls to be monitored in real time, while they are in progress without due process. (e.g. A court order or warrant.)

I do not dispute that calls can be monitored. I do not dispute that a company may have the right to monitor calls. I DO expect I will be afforded reasonable privacy unless I am informed in advance that company policy is otherwise.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 03-19-2010 11:47 AM

When I worked at Allegiant Air, they made it very clear during new-hire orientation and quarterly after that, in writing, that the contents of any email or text messages which pass through the company's servers are considered company property. The contents can be read by company administrators at any time.

Under current law there is no such thing as a "right to privacy" covering employees in the workplace. Companies argue that since email and text capabilities are provided by companies for business purposes, companies have the obligation to monitor non-business use of these company-controlled assets.

Most companies, Allegiant included, have a fairly relaxed policy regarding non-business employee traffic on company servers and workstations. No one minded things like occasionally calling home or checking personal email or even web surfing as long as business was being taken care of. Generally, anyone logging a lot of such traffic had more work duties assigned to them.

But the point is the company certainly did check network logs and the contents of emails and texts. If they saw something they didn't like, they would certainly tell you, just as in the example being discussed here. Fair warning about no expectation of "privacy" involving company phones and other means of company-provided communication was and is routinely given.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-19-2010 12:26 PM

quote: Randy Stankey
Communication logs and statement details are one thing.

Real time monitoring of communication by a third party who is not the phone company or who is not working for the government is a whole completely different thing.

There's nothing to indicate that this is real-time monitoring. Just because I send a text to Bob and before he replies I get a message saying "We know you're talking to someone about stuff you shouldn't" doesn't mean that it was being tracked real-time, because they could've previously polled phones for their texts and saw my messages I'd sent to Bob earlier and just happened to send out their message while I was waiting for a reply from Bob or they could've polled the phones while I was waiting for the reply.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-19-2010 03:01 PM

Chris, you are probably right about the text being monitored in some automated way. We don't know the specifics.

The company does allow use of its phones for personal business by employees. That blurs the line. Do they turn the monitoring software off at 5:01 PM? What is the line between "personal" and "business" use and how do you know the difference? What if I work weekends or work at home? Does the company say that phones are monitored at all times? If so, then fine.

In other cases, there have been rulings to the effect that if the company allows the employee to read newspapers, magazines or other personal reading material while on break then an employee might also be allowed to use his company issued computer for personal recreational purposes while he is on break. The rationale is that reading news or other things on the computer is, in effect, the same thing as reading a newspaper. If one thing is allowed then it follows that the other might also be allowed. This further blurs the line between personal and company use.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-19-2010 03:40 PM

quote: Randy Stankey
Chris, you are probably right about the text being monitored in some automated way. We don't know the specifics.

If it works anything like any other system that lets you monitor texts on corporate phones, it would be automated (short of someone telling the software "poll now").

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 03-19-2010 07:45 PM

quote: Chris Slycord
There's nothing to indicate that this is real-time monitoring

..just that in this case that I began with this thread where the office personnel came in between the two partie's text conversation, I'd shake a bet that this was a real time observation and action.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-19-2010 09:09 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
..just that in this case that I began with this thread where the office personnel came in between the two partie's text conversation, I'd shake a bet that this was a real time observation and action.

1) In the rest of my post I explained how it could easily be that they weren't monitoring it with some guy reading each text and still appear in the middle of the two's text conversation
2) How do you know they aren't doing some logging of text messages and having the computer search based on the content? Like it looks for certain words that they think likely are only used with someone talking about stuff they shouldn't and when it finds such a message it sends a copy to your boss who reads through it (and does nothing if it was a false alarm).

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-19-2010 09:56 PM

quote: Chris Slycord
How do you know they aren't doing some logging of text messages and having the computer search based on the content?

You mean like: "President. Election Day. Explosion. 12:00 Noon. Carnivore."

That's what I thought at first but the message reply that interrupted the conversation threw me off. I suppose it could have been coincidence that it arrived at that moment. [Shrug]

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 03-19-2010 10:20 PM

quote: Randy Stankey
That's what I thought at first but the message reply that interrupted the conversation threw me off. I suppose it could have been coincidence that it arrived at that moment.

Like I said, the server could've searched for the special words then automatically sent a message to the superior. So while he was involved in the convo, the computer alerted the superior to the content of one of the messages which he immediately noticed as a breach of confidentiality. Just an idea.

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