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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » PayPal/eBay policies are getting ridiculous... (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: PayPal/eBay policies are getting ridiculous...
Allison Parsons
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 630
From: East Peoria, IL
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 12:16 AM      Profile for Allison Parsons   Author's Homepage   Email Allison Parsons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony,
Couldn't agree with you more about your rant. I could go on a rant myself, but you said most of the stuff I would say anyway, so I'll keep quite and spare you my story.

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Paypal is going to place a HOLD on ALL payments made to my account, until THEY verify that an item I sold was received AND satisfactory to the buyer
Is this ONLY for ebay? I sell on Etsy and Ebay, but haven't received a notice about that via Etsy.

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 05-13-2010 10:42 AM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
EBay Persuades Judge to End Auction ‘Monopoly’ Suit by Sellers

quote:
EBay Persuades Judge to End Auction ‘Monopoly’ Suit by Sellers
March 06, 2010, 12:03 AM EST
By Andrew M. Harris

March 6 (Bloomberg) -- EBay Inc., operator of the most visited U.S. e-commerce site, no longer faces a lawsuit by three sellers claiming it monopolizes the online auctions market and the means to pay for goods bought there.

U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel in San Jose, California, ruled the sellers failed to show that they -- or anyone else -- had been injured by EBay’s alleged behavior.

“Plaintiffs have not drawn the court’s attention to any actual proof of antitrust injury caused by EBay,” Fogel said in his March 4 decision throwing out the case.

EBay was accused in the suit of anticompetitive behavior, including the acquisition of the PayPal peer-to-peer payment service in 2002. Paypal, bought by San Jose-based EBay for $1.18 billion, processed more than 40 percent of the $52 billion in merchandise sold on EBay in 2006, the year before Michael Malone of Texas first filed the lawsuit.

Malone was forced to pay “artificially inflated and supracompetitive fees to EBay,” according to a consolidated complaint filed in May 2007.

The sellers sought class-action, or group status, and a finding that EBay violated antitrust laws and illegally restrained trade, plus an award for unspecified money damages.

“We are gratified that the court rejected plaintiffs’ claim as baseless,” EBay Deputy General Counsel Mary Huser said yesterday in an e-mailed statement. “With this meritless suit behind us, we can continue to focus on our core business of providing platforms that bring buyers and sellers together to transact online.”

Michael McShane, lead attorney for the sellers, didn’t immediately return a phone message seeking comment yesterday.

No Line Crossed

“Plaintiffs challenge virtually everything that EBay has ever done,” the company said in court papers asking Fogel to throw out the lawsuit. “Every one of the acts identified by plaintiffs crosses no antitrust line.”

The case is In Re EBay Seller Antitrust Litigation, 07-cv-01882, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California (San Jose).


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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 12:50 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Allison, you would be getting that notice as a message when you log in to Paypal, it originates from them. If you have not gotten such notice, then it is further proof that Paypal/eBay are up to something unethical at least. If that notice wasn't sent to ALL Paypal users, then there's something fishy going on. And it is worded to apply to ALL payments to Paypal, eBay or not. If you didn't get the notice you can find it on Paypal's Terms and Conditions section.

One of the hold criteria is if your DSR's aren't PERFECT (that's the new five-star categories they added to feedback) you are subject to this hold. I do not have enough ratings in DSR yet so that is a probable reason why I got the notice. Yet I have been on eBay (and been using Paypal) since Dec. 2001 with 100% feedback. WTF?

Jeremy, The outcome of that suit proves nothing other than the plaintiffs did not properly prepare and present their evidence. It is not uncommon for cases which otherwise would have merit to be thrown out due to evidence-caused errors.

Remember the "Twilight Zone" case? Some key evidence was mysteriously "lost" by the NTSB and combined with the DA's office misconduct and strife the outcome was not what it clearly should have been. Look for the book "Outrageous Conduct - Art, Ego and the Twilight Zone Case", it is a very interesting read.

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 05-13-2010 04:52 PM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
I got an email from Paypal today which has me astounded to say the least.

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Allison, you would be getting that notice as a message when you log in to Paypal, it originates from them.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure that it is not a spam email? I'm on Pay Pal quite often and have not ever received this notice. I also just checked the "Policy Updates" under the "Notifications" link and do not see the change.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 05:42 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also sell and buy on Ebay with Paypal and have NOT seen any notice about that. Sounds like spam to me too.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 08:48 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeremy and Richard:

I thought at first it was spam, but it is also a notice on my Paypal account which I'm sure is authentic.

For the record, if this policy applied ONLY to eBay payments I could live with it, but ANY AND ALL payments can be affected, even private party payments outside of eBay.

I don't think forum rules will let me copy and paste the entire section of the policy here. Perhaps those who want to see it can send me a PM.

So this may prove that it is something that Paypal is only targeting to specific people, which now makes it possibly discriminatory as well.

Do you guys have 5.0 DSR's as well as good feedback?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-13-2010 08:58 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are other ways to acccept payment on E-bay. Credit card is one and it's not that hard to get set up for it. Wire transfers on large amounts and check or money order. Let the check clear before you ship. Seems to me there is another service similar to PayPal's out there too. I am primarily a buyer but did clean out my garage last summer and sold lots o stuff off got a power seller rating which I have since lost because I have not had anything listed. Your feedback rating speaks for itself no matterwhat form of payment you take...

Mark

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 09:09 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, eBay is about to eliminate ALL options other than Paypal. They have not allowed (by the rules anyway) other wire transfer services for at least the last year.

As a buyer eBay is a good deal for you, since buyers have ALL the rights and protections. Sellers have been screwed ever since John Donahoe took over and changed many of the rules.

For example, you can report a buyer for non-payment BUT it does NOT appear anywhere on their feedback or standing. FACT.

Sellers can no longer leave a negative or neutral feedback for a buyer EVEN IF THE BUYER DOESN'T PAY. FACT.

Buyers can leave a negative or neutral feedback even BEFORE they get the item and eBay won't do shit about it. FACT.

When you log on to eBay, click on "Discussion Forums" and the "Feedback" forum and you'll see I'm not the only one unhappy with the direction things are going.

All that combined with the ever-growing fees is why I am quitting eBay and it's sister company. I have had enough of their bullshit.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-13-2010 09:13 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Please post the policy.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 09:26 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Brad for the permission. Here it is:

quote: From Paypal's site
PayPal Payment Holds

We're committed to providing you and your customers with a fast and secure payment service while keeping our prices competitive. To keep ourselves on track, we've established a Funds Availability Policy.

We might be throwing some new words at you here, but we promise to explain them in full detail. As part of our Funds Availability Policy, "reserves" may apply to certain accounts. A reserve is a percentage of your payments that'll be released at a later date. A related term is "payment hold." A payment hold is a type of reserve in which 100% of the funds received are held for a specified amount of time.

Payment hold - a longer definition

A payment hold is an amount of money that belongs to you, set aside by PayPal, while we make sure that your customers are satisfied. The payments received are held temporarily as a pending balance in your account, and released after a given timeframe. The funds may be released early if PayPal determines that the transaction has been fulfilled and your customers are satisfied.

Please note: Although not available for use, the funds are yours and will be reflected in your pending balance and eligible for money market dividends* for eligible accounts.
Why does PayPal hold payments?

Payment holds ensure that sellers have sufficient funds in their account if, for example, a customer files a dispute. This allows PayPal to provide a fast and secure payment service to you and your customers while keeping our prices competitive.

We know this is a change in the way we do business with you and we hope you understand that, if your payment is held, you haven't done anything wrong. In deciding whether to hold payments, we review many factors including transaction activity, business type, and customer disputes.
When do payment holds apply?

Payment holds may be applied to some or all transactions in your account. Here are some common reasons for holding payments:

* You have limited history or selling activity with eBay and PayPal
* You have an eBay feedback score of less than 100 or received fewer than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months, and do not have a record of good performance
* If you have low Detailed Seller Ratings or other indication of below standard performance on eBay
* You have a high rate of customer disputes, claims or chargebacks
* You're selling in a high risk category or industry such as, but not limited to, tickets, travel, gift certificates, computers, consumer electronics, or cell phones
* Your payment activity is inconsistent. For example, you have a spike in selling activity or you started selling in a new category without an established history in that category
* The account information you have provided is incomplete or inaccurate

If your payments are held, PayPal will provide you with notice specifying the terms. The terms may require that the amounts received into your account are held for a certain period of time. PayPal will re-evaluate your account periodically and contact you when we stop applying payment holds.

If your payments are held, the funds will be shown as "pending" in your PayPal balance.

When does PayPal release the payment?

Payments will be held in a pending balance for a certain time period. For example, if you receive a $100 payment (after fees), the $100 will be held in a pending balance for the specified amount of time. After the hold is released, the money will be available for withdrawal.

The money may be released sooner if:

1. We can confirm that the item was delivered**
2. Your buyer leaves positive feedback. (Applies only to eBay items.)

To get access to this money more quickly, please process this order right away and communicate with your customers early and often.

What can I do to avoid payment holds?

Here are some things you can do:

* Improve your DSR feedback rating
* Avoid buyer disputes, claims, and chargebacks.
* If you have a buyer dispute, resolve it quickly.
* Process your orders right away and ship quickly using a service that provides tracking and delivery confirmation
* Communicate early and often with your buyers
* Make sure you confirm your address and phone numbers and keep them up to date
* Verify your account and keep your financials up to date

I'm a new seller. Will payments I receive be held?

Not necessarily. If you're a new seller with PayPal, we may hold your payments until you establish a record of good selling performance.

I'm a tenured PayPal seller. Will payments I receive be held?

Not necessarily. If you don't have a record of good performance or have limited selling activity or other indication of potential performance problems, your payments may be held.

Can held funds be used to pay for shipping?

If you print labels and pay for shipping through PayPal or eBay, the cost of shipping will be released from your pending balance shortly after purchase. Printing labels on eBay and PayPal is free. You're charged only the cost of shipping.

* For US customers, if you are enrolled in the PayPal Money Market Fund, you will earn interest on your held funds.

**We can confirm delivery if you ship the item with UPS, USPS or FedEx and either use PayPal or eBay shipping labels or upload tracking information from the transaction details page. This applies to US domestic shipments only. Once the tracking number reflects the shipment is delivered, PayPal will review and may release the Hold after 3 days elapses. This provides enough time for the buyer to review the shipment and file a dispute if necessary.

Bold added by me.

The tone of this policy is slightly softer than the tone of the email, which is kinda understandable since the email was a bit shorter.

It seems to me this is a somewhat punitive action because I don't have great sales volume and don't have established DSR's yet. Since joining eBay though I have made close to 80 sales and ALL have been 100% positive feedback with no complaints or issues.

The first bold point is the one that pisses me off the most, as my Paypal is linked to my bank account already to cover any shortfalls in my Paypal account, so that's a very weak excuse IMHO.

I knew when Paypal was bought by eBay that it was only a matter of time before the [bs] hit the fan.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 09:44 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, my feedback is 100%. I understand why they are doing it. It may be a bit strong though. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I can see if you don't sell much but have 100% feedback, why you would be pissed.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 09:59 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard, if I have 100% feedback why should my sales volume matter? As long as I have had no claims against me (and I don't) why should I be subject to the hold? And what about the NINE YEARS of good track record? That should weigh in a lot more than sales volume.

I'm pretty sure if you did a sale and had your money held despite your 100% you'd be pissed too. [Big Grin]

Again, since they have access to my bank account anyways why should they hold my access to the funds?

There are other online services to get paid by and I can also set up my bank account to accept credit cards if need be.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 05-13-2010 10:21 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, I thought I had read that you didn't have many sales at all on Ebay. I must have read it wrong. I don't understand it at all. It seems that they are picking on certain people. I also have been on ebay for about 10 years and have 100% feedback. My feedback number is only around 250 though. I would have thought that I would be included in the new policy also.

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 05-14-2010 02:17 AM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK. After some digging I found the policy. Its under the "Security Center" link. Security Center>Safer Selling>Tips to Sell Securely>Payment Holds

Maybe they're sending notice to those that are actively selling( but with low sales volume) on eBay. I can't find any indication as to when the policy went in to effect, but maybe its been on the books for a while and they're just sending out reminder notices. I am in no way defending what they are doing. It will certainly give me pause if and when I decide to sell something via eBay again.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-14-2010 10:32 AM      Profile for Chad Souder   Email Chad Souder   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Putting holds on money is common practice. Many banks place holds on your account whenever you use their debit card. Mine and two other locals hold $75, unless I tell the cashier (assuming they have the option) to run it as credit.

As far as I can see, other payment options on Ebay are still available, including credit cards and "receive payment upon pickup" which translates to "I'll ship it when your check clears." It doesn't seem like the hardest thing to avoid if it's truly a burden. It would seem it's origin comes from all the creditors that offer buyer protection. Maybe that's even a federal law, I don't know. I do know that my credit cards have protection for purchases I make that I either don't get or are faulty or whatever. Maybe this is Paypal's version of that?

Ebay is huge. You would reduce your exposure by leaving Ebay. If that's a risk you're willing to accept, then go for it. As Randy mentioned, the online private trade world is beginning to mimic real-world retailers. Specialty sites are becoming the preference, as Ebay has grown so large that what used to be a simple search now returns thousand of items that have nothing to do with what you want.

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