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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: FIFA World Cup 2010 - South Africa
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-02-2010 01:46 PM
quote: Kurt Zupin
Americans are to stuck on having high scoringfests and if the score isn't a million to a million and half they don't care. Kinda sad actually.
Not true. While the NFL has done things to increase scoring, MLB, the 3rd most popular sport in the USA, is low scoring. Lots of 1-0 games, even in the AL. Scoring has less to do with interest as what's happening on the field and what's happening on a soccer field makes a lot of people really bored.
I heard an interview on the radio last week with Eric Wynaldo (sp?). He talked about how embarassing all the flopping and bad acting is in soccer. He said it makes it hard to defend his sport and it has to stop. That's another huge reason Americans don't care. We prefer toughness, not crybabies that flop around hoping to get a foul called. If you notice in the NBA, the most notorious floppers come from other countries.
quote: Kurt Zupin
These guys are better athletes then 95% of the NFL players.
That may be the silliest statement I've ever read on this site and being a member as long as you have, you know that's saying a lot. I would love to see some of them participate in the combines NFL hopefuls go through. It would be hilarious. As a casual guess, I bet 50% of the players in this World Cup couldn't put up the 225 bench. Maybe more. Could you imagine them trying to do the Cybex strength testing? 60 yard shuttle? Oh man that would be comical.
Fact is, if the USA cared about soccer, you would have never heard of 3/4 of those who are considered the best soccer players in the world. This country, largely due to nutrition and technology, produce the best athletes in the world. Sure, there are always a few exceptions here and there, but the sports we truly care about, we dominate. That's just how it is. We don't have the best guys in soccer because we don't give a crap.
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-02-2010 02:05 PM
quote: Kurt Zupin
Americans are to stuck on having high scoringfests and if the score isn't a million to a million and half they don't care. Kinda sad actually.
I don't think it's about the score, itself. It's about the potential for scoring.
Whenever any player on a basketball team gets the ball, he has the potential to score. Whenever any player on a football team gets the ball, he has the potential to score. Virtually, at any moment, it is possible for them to score.
A hockey player can get a breakaway and score 0.68 seconds later, even from the other end of the ice. A basketball player can put the ball in the net from half court, virtually at any moment. Hell, even the 382 pound defensive lineman, William "The Fridge" Perry made a touchdown!
It is virtually impossible for a soccer player to score from more than 20 to 30 yards away from the goal. (Yes, I said YARDS, not meters!) It might be possible on some kind of freak, "Hail Mary" play but that's about it.
Any player on a football team can run the ball into the end zone from 95 yards. Any player on a hockey team can slap the puck in from the blue line. Any player at bat on a baseball team can hit a home run on any pitch. Any player on a basketball team can put up a 3-pointer.
These are not common occurrences but they happen frequently enough to make the game interesting.
In soccer, it is quite possible that you'll end up watching 22 guys run around the field for 90 minutes but not one of them ever scores a goal...
Which is probably the reason why that asshole announcer started shouting "GOAAAAAAAL!" Scoring happens so infrequently that he has to wake up all the spectators!
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Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 593
From: London, UK
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 07-02-2010 07:04 PM
Randy I don't know how to counter your criticisms of 'soccer' without getting you to come to a game in England, because on TV I don't think you can 'get' the sport. Whereas you pretty much see all of an NFL play in the frame of the TV camera (please tell me if I am wrong here) there's so much of our Football that doesn't come across. I find it hard to watch the games on TV unless it is my team, England or a good tournament game.
Chad, with the cheating and diving being a problem I think it's not the game itself but an organisational issue. The referees aren't being picked from nations with strong leagues and it's impacting their ability to control matches. It's something that the media manipulate as well because it sells newspapers. Also I think for some people being able to rant at a cheat is part of the game, bit of transference of their anger from their own lives.
As for the fitness it's no doubt the NFL players are far better conditioned for their game, that is why increasingly our Football coaches and fans look toward that league as a way to do many things right.
I just got back from South Africa, it has been a fun and well run tournament so far, just a shame England were useless. The vuvuzelas aren't that bad when you get in the stadiums. Went to the USA v Ghana game and the US side did well but lost their composure in extra time. I would have had my US Soccer jersey on cheering you if I wasn't pissed off at them topping England's group!
I'm glad the game got a bit more exposure in the USA although I get the impression it's going to end up being like Rugby Union is in England, a big sport with a mainly middle-class following that will never challenge Football for dominance. With the money you guys put in to high school and college sports it is only a matter of time before we start seeing stronger US Soccer sides and more high-profile players.
Expect more efforts to win your hearts and minds, the lure of the US tourist Dollar to FIFA, sports companies and tournament host nations is far too strong for them to resist.
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-02-2010 08:14 PM
Caleb, it's the same with hockey. I don't watch much hockey on TV at all.
If the camera is zoomed in to see the player with the puck, you can't see the play develop around him. Because the players move so fast and the rink is so small, plays can develop in a second. By the time the camera pans to the guy who makes the play, the puck has been stolen and put into the net by the opposing team.
If the camera is zoomed out to see the play develop, you can't see the guy with the puck. So he's moving down-ice and he comes up to a defender, fakes and dodges him then drives to the net and the camera doesn't get the details of the puck handling and maneuvering that went into the play.
Really, the best way to watch hockey is to watch it in person.
A similar criticism can be made for professional basketball on TV. It's a lot like watching tennis:
The ball goes back and forth, then back and forth. Every so often, somebody misses. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I generally don't like to watch any sport on TV. (I don't watch much TV at all, really.) If I watch sports, it is more than likely that I'll watch at the stadium.
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-02-2010 09:21 PM
quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
I think it's not the game itself but an organisational issue.
I can agree with that in part, but in another part it is a weakness of any game that allows fouls to be called by a person. When you allow the judgement of an official to be a deciding factor, you simply open the door to acting by the players in an effort to draw the official's eye. It happens in american football too, and it really happens in basketball, but neither to the extent that I have seen in soccer. It may be a reason why I love baseball above all else. Because there are no penalties to be issued, the player has no say over the official's decision. Complaining happens after the fact, but never to influence a call as it happens.
Some sports certainly play to television better than others. Many NFL rule changes have been specifically for a superior television watching experience. In baseball, you get a much better feel for where a pitch is and what kind of movement it has on TV versus live, even if you're sitting behind home plate. Maybe soccer is better live (I'm sure the atmosphere is remarkable), but since I won't be getting to any major matches anytime soon, I, along with millions of others, have no choice but to see how the game translates via television. That translation to this point has been extremely boring for the majority of the United States, which is why it hasn't caught on here.
quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
With the money you guys put in to high school and college sports it is only a matter of time before we start seeing stronger US Soccer sides and more high-profile players.
Not necessarily. High Schools do sink a lot of money in sports, but they are typically sports that return the revenue. Even at a High School level, football is big business, especially in Texas. At the college level, Title 9 has changed sports programs nation-wide. It is a requirement to offer the same number of scholarships in women's sports as in men's. What has happened is that men's sports that don't make money are being cut since schools can't afford to keep them on with all the money they're pouring out to the women's sports. Women's sports rarely make money at the college level, so universities have to funnel money from elsewhere to keep the programs alive. In the state of Iowa, for example, only one of our three major universities still has a baseball program due to Title 9. Wrestling, swimming and other sports are being slashed everywhere. Anyway, that's a long way of saying that money for men's soccer just isn't there in a lot of schools, so the programs will not develop the future talent needed to compete world wide.
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Kurt Zupin
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 989
From: Maricopa, Arizona
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 07-05-2010 06:07 AM
quote: Chad Souder
Not true. While the NFL has done things to increase scoring, MLB, the 3rd most popular sport in the USA, is low scoring. Lots of 1-0 games, even in the AL. Scoring has less to do with interest as what's happening on the field and what's happening on a soccer field makes a lot of people really bored.
While baseball has a following, baseball is just as boring for your average American as you say Soccer is. This debate is never going to be finished as it is very much a matter of prefrence. I love all American sports, I am a Insane College football fan, and I love the NFL. My point of all this was to say that after the World Cup I can very much appreciate the game. I was like you all before the World Cup. I had not watched a single soccer game ever, now if its on I'm going to watch it. And if the US soccer team comes back to Phoenix to play a match I will be going.
As for flopping it is sad, every announcer during the World Cup has made a point to condem it. Joe you realize your GIF is of players from the same team right? My guess is that they are goofing and making a joke of a call would be my guess.
quote:
I can agree with that in part, but in another part it is a weakness of any game that allows fouls to be called by a person. When you allow the judgement of an official to be a deciding factor, you simply open the door to acting by the players in an effort to draw the official's eye. It happens in american football too, and it really happens in basketball, but neither to the extent that I have seen in soccer. It may be a reason why I love baseball above all else. Because there are no penalties to be issued, the player has no say over the official's decision . Complaining happens after the fact, but never to influence a call as it happens.
This is where I have to ask are you serious? Flopping happens in the NBA every game. Some are not as bad as others but it happens all the time, and it influence's the refs decision all the time. I shall now give you a few NBA flops for your enjoyment Example #1 Example #2 My Personal Favorite And I know there is flopping in Soccer, you don't need to post videos to prove it. I only posted these to show that flopping does infact sway the NBA ref and as you said "NEVER to influence a call as it happens".
quote: Chad Souder
That may be the silliest statement I've ever read on this site and being a member as long as you have, you know that's saying a lot. I would love to see some of them participate in the combines NFL hopefuls go through. It would be hilarious. As a casual guess, I bet 50% of the players in this World Cup couldn't put up the 225 bench. Maybe more. Could you imagine them trying to do the Cybex strength testing? 60 yard shuttle? Oh man that would be comical.
Show me one NFL player that can run for 90mins? I know not all of the soccer players have to run for the 90 minutes. NFL playesr can do the things you described because they have to be able to do those things to play their desired position. I would take your bet that less then %50 of the players in the WC could not bench 225lbs. Some of these guys are monsters that I wouldn't want to meet in a dark ally. Point being, what ever sport your playing your going to focus on what you need to to play that sport. I didn't mean to take anything away from a NFL player. Cause guess what, every soccer play and football player and anyother sport for that matter are better athletes then any of us could hope to be.
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