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Author Topic: Drive-in theatre must go digital or close Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-15-2012 08:25 PM                     quote: Tony L. Hernandez I was unaware that VPFs were not offered to DIs..... Can your drive-in provide discrete 5.1 sound? Nope. Can your drive-in provide proper masking? Nope. Can your drive-in provide 14fl of light on the screen? Well, depending on the projector you choose and your screen specifics maybe...but you don't WANT 14fl of light on that screen or people will be watching the surface of the screen instead of the movie. Regardless, a requirement of VPF payments from the studios is to meet DCI spec for picture and sound, and drive-ins by their sheer nature can't do it. Any drive-in that does enough business for the studios to care about will have enough money to convert anyway...so what makes anyone think the studios will give VPFs to the drive-ins? There is no incentive. Anyway, anyone promising VPF payments to a drive-in is trying to sell you something to look after their best interests, whether it be a piece of equipment that company manufactures, or some sort of bulk "group" purchase where a minimum quantity is required. There are people working hard to try and get the studios to make an exception for drive-ins, but my personal opinion is that it won't happen for the reasons I outlined above. For those drive-ins that do find the money to convert, make your equipment selection very carefully. If a 14 plex goes down on a screen and loses a weekend, it isn't the end of the world for them. If a drive-in goes down, most of them will suffer tremendously. As such everything needs to be taken into account. How resistant is your projector to the typical drive-in booth's conditions? How about the server's capability to be remotely re-installed in the event of a crash? How far away are your service techs? What capabilities does your NOC actually have vs. the others to keep you on screen, rebuild that server, etc? These are important questions that most people are trivializing.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-15-2012 08:40 PM                     ..looks like Digital isn't everybody's "friend" .. almost like a "destroyer virus" of sorts.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-15-2012 09:52 PM                        I really don't get why people are so obsessed with VPFs. If your theatre cannot make the conversion (which will no doubt be required at some point in the the future) on its own, then VPFs do nothing more than push the inevitable closing of the venue forward by a number of years equal to the lifespan of the current generation of D-cinema equipment (let's say 5-10 years). DCI has the effect of increasing the ongoing costs of running a cinema by requiring expensive equipment with a short expected lifespan. If your business cannot support this, then VPFs will not help over the long term. (No, I do not consider delaying the inevitable to be "helping" anything.) Even in the short term, it is not the "free money" that some people make it sound like it is. This is why I do not see a public "donation" working for a private cinema business. This is not a one-time expense. It is not in the same category as helping a local business deal with a catastrophic event (fire, flood, etc.) or with a one-time capital expense. It is an ongoing increase in the costs of doing business, and the public likely will not (and should not) take kindly to being repeatedly asked for handouts to keep a local business solvent. The drive-in in question needs to do one or more of the following: a) decide to close when 35mm prints are no longer available; b) figure out some sort of financing deal that will work with their current business model; c) change the business model (raise prices, lease out some land/space for retail or other use, re-negotiate terms with film distributors, make the business work with fewer employees, etc.) to make the higher costs work; or d) convert to a non-profit organization that can accept donations. I am completely sympathetic to business like this which are being threatened by distributor to install D-cinema equipment, but asking the public for a handout is not a viable long-term strategy to stay in business.  |  IP: Logged Sam Graham AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues. Posts: 1431 From: Waukee, IA Registered: Dec 2004 posted 01-15-2012 09:52 PM                        The story that started this thread is being written for small-town theatres across the US (both indoor and outdoor). They're almost getting to be cookie-cutter. They're all looking for ways to get community support in raising the funds to go digital. Digital is already a significant problem for small independent operators running movies after the break because there's an increasing lack of film prints available to move down, forcing these theatres to either commit to more first-run movies than they would have done otherwise (which gets them a print commitment)...or face an abysmal availability of movies to show later because prints aren't available.  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 01-15-2012 11:42 PM                     Brad has brought to light some VERY important issues in regards to the ultimate appropriateness or otherwise of digital equipment in drive in scenarios. It is apparent, regardless of the suitability or otherwise of digital equipment, that drive in conditions will only exacerbate the operational degradation of that equipment much faster than the current mechanical systems. This will mean a correspondingly shorter lifespan and therefore an INCREASE in operational costs over and above multiplex/hardtop locations using comparable digital projection equipment. Without the benefits of 5-6 screenings a day per screen, the shorter lifespan of the equipment AND little if any chance of VPF's then the one remaining option (at the moment) is to maximise the use of the infrastructure that is already in situ. Where is the UDITOA (United Drive-In Theatre Owners Association) in all of this? NATO can't be expected to help out considering Fithian's views and stance on this issue, so it should fall to the likes of the UDITOA with their clout to put up plans and schemes to maximise the life of film-based distribution for the drive in industry. As I have mentioned before, here in Australia we have numerous independant repertory houses that BUY the prints to films that they run frequently, and then store them onsite for the next screening. The usual B.O reporting continues. Why could this not be extended to striking the Digital Intermediate and limited print runs to cater for that market? With the UDITOA's backing, the remaining drive ins that are facing the conversion issue (read: all of them) would at the very least have half a chance at remaining in operation for just that little bit longer.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-16-2012 02:51 AM                     Ian, you also forgot the fact that most drive-ins play double features. Sure that second movie isn't a 90/10 split, but it just makes life even more difficult even if it was at a 50/50 split. Scott, don't discount the VPFs. They are the ONLY reason that A LOT of theaters will continue to operate! Unless UDITOA can get VPFs arranged for the drive-ins, they won't be doing anything substantial to help the cause. I stress again, there is no VPF program for a drive-in that exists today.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 01-16-2012 03:51 AM                        The way I see it, there are several issues besides digital which threaten most drive-ins over the long run. These could also factor into any argument about maintaining 35mm print availability. 1. The property is more valuable than the business. How many drive-ins would close tomorrow if someone made an offer on the land for a shopping center or housing development? 2. Can the small town single screen drive-in survive as it becomes more difficult to get prints in a timely fashion? 3. Are there enough drive-ins that put up a strong enough gross to prop up a niche industry if you're trying to make an argument for the continued availability of a small number of 35mm prints? 4. For drive-ins that play most of their product a few weeks off the break, can they survive when there are fewer prints in circulation? Especially when this makes it more difficult to schedule strong double features, or target tent pole pictures for peak weeks. These drive-ins are already being hurt by shrinking DVD windows and other entertainment choices. 5. If you argue for a supply of 35mm prints for the sake of drive-ins, how do you account for the seasonal fluctuation in the number of screens? Are seasonal drive-ins going to be lower on the food chain for getting prints?  |  IP: Logged Edward Havens Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 614 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 01-16-2012 04:03 AM                     Chris, I was simply responding to Ian's ascertain that "It is highly doubtful that any drive in currently running would be able to sustain the kind of finance needed to go digital." All I did was provide a single instance that proved overwise.  |  IP: Logged Barry Floyd Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1079 From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-16-2012 09:49 AM                        quote: Ian Parfrey Where is the UDITOA (United Drive-In Theatre Owners Association) in all of this? I do NOT speak on behalf of UDITOA, but I am a member who follows their discussion group and forums everyday. The UDITOA group does have a "Digital Cinema Committee" formed, and some of it's members have traveled from one end of the country to the other working on DCI specs for drive-ins. The UDITOA digital cinema committee has diligently worked with several equipment vendors and negotiated a fairly good "digital cinema package" that "price wise" will work for our needs. Like has been said in previous posts, paying for it is a whole different ballgame. Me personally, I agree with Scott - I don't do "hand-outs"... it cheapens the whole drive-in experience. Same reason I'd never do carload pricing or flea market / swap meets. I've never seen the local 14 screen Regal host a flea market in their parking lot, and I won't either. Digital conversion for drive-ins (and small mom & pop indoors too) will all come down to the "survival of the financially fittest". In my area (middle TN) there are currently 7 drive-ins within a 50 mile radius of Nashville. 2 are shuttered and for sale, 1 sits on leased land - and may be for sale by spring due to the owners health, and that leaves 4. Of those 4, one is a single screen that grossed 15% of what I did (ticket sales), my closet competitor who grossed 50% of what I did, another just over the state line who is doing just fine, and me. I have been very fortunate that our customers have taken care of us very well over the last eight years. We will convert, but still waiting for the right deal to come along. My local bank said they'd do the financing for an outright purchase, but I'm probably going to lease the equipment instead. Only make sense to me.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-16-2012 01:46 PM                     quote: Barry Floyd but I'm probably going to lease the equipment instead ?..are leasing options open for those who can't do VPF's? Heard that it was impossible to lease, but the only way is to purchase outright for the conversion.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 01-16-2012 02:15 PM                        Most things can be leased. The leasing company buys whatever you need, and you lease it from them. It's kind of like taking out a loan but it's structured like a lease. I know that the Credit Union here can do that if you want.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-17-2012 05:37 AM                        quote: Scott, don't discount the VPFs. They are the ONLY reason that A LOT of theaters will continue to operate! So, what happens in 5-10 years when they need to buy the next generation of equipment? It seems to me that VPFs are just delaying the inevitable for many venues.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 01-17-2012 07:34 AM                     There are certain issues being discussed here that I find particularly troubling from an anti-trust perspective. Has anyone thought of contacting a good anti-trust lawyer?  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 01-17-2012 11:28 AM                        quote: Ian Parfrey It would be cheaper for the Drive-ins to band together, pay for a negative to be struck and use independent labs to make prints. It is highly doubtful that any drive in currently running would be able to sustain the kind of finance needed to go digital. And what happens when the mediocre life span of these things expires? Good grief, people. Where does all this come from? Given the push to digitize the country, I don't see the studios showing any interest in a group of relatively low-grossing theatres "banding together" to extend the life of film. Just their (debatable) piracy rationale should be enough to stop that. The infrastructure required to make a small number of prints available to the bottom end of the food chain, I think, would be too much trouble for them to consider it. I suppose drive-ins in other countries might not have the life spans that they do here, considering here is where they were invented. Ours is over 60 years old, and we're not the only one that's been around awhile. Hardly mediocre. The anti-trust angle has been circulating around for a long time. Personally, I don't see much there. There are plenty of examples where industries have changed directions, taking the troops along for the ride. Probably the most recent is television's switch to digital. You think it wasn't cheap for TV stations, large and small to switch their studio and transmitter infrastructures to an incompatible format, then push the "off" button on million-dollar analog transmitter plants? OK. The government mandated it, but governments can be sued (remember AM stereo?). It didn't happen, and television has somehow survived. There have ALWAYS been signals out there, that VPFs might not be the way to go for drive-ins, if they could get them at all. Even if you could get them in the first place, the conditions that came along with them were enough to make you think. The notion that a $60,000 digital projector is somehow more fragile than glass is ludicrous. To begin with, the published specs for those things go way beyond most peoples' comfort levels, so ranges that would make a person wilt (or freeze) would also be noticed by the projector. Nothing much difficult there... reasonably decent ventillation, temperature and humidity controls. I have 5 computers, a Dolby box and two DTS units in my drive-in booth. They like where they are just fine, so with some appropriate adjustments, I expect I'll be in reasonably good shape for digital. Not quite sure how the Twilight figures they need $100k to convert one screen, but OK, if that's what they've got penciled out. I'm doing 3 this Fall, and it's not going to cost me $300k to do it. I suppose the emergency service and NOC issues are something to think about, but I guess I have that reasonably well worked out. The nearest company to me is 3 hours out. Yah... if you lose a projector, you've probably lost your show for the night. However, there's not much choice being presented to the drive-ins that are left in this country. If we have to accept that risk or close, then that's one of many adjustments we've made in this business since it started. Mom & Pop indoor theatres across the country are facing exactly the same issues that we are. Maybe they're just too marginal to make this work. If so, then it's a sad thing, but businesses start and fail all the time. Drive-ins will be no different. Those theatres, indoor and out, that have the ability to plan their business models around periodic upgrades... screens, roofs, driveways, etc., will not be freaked out by the prospect of changing out their projector(s). Those dynamics aren't that much unlike any other business.  |  IP: Logged Barry Floyd Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1079 From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 01-17-2012 12:38 PM                        We are NOT pursuing VPF's. VPF's while marketed as a savior for helping us little guys (and the big guys) pay for digital conversion, they are in my opinion a double edge sword that will come back to bite you in the ass in the spring and the fall. If the negotiated VPF for your theatre is $800.00 per NEW first run print, that means the studio will pay $800.00 to your 3rd party integrator (Cinedigm, NEC Financial, whoever) no matter what you do business-wise. In the summer months that's not a big deal since we (drive-in's) all can churn out fairly decent numbers during the months of May, June, & July. It's folks like me who open in March and don't close until Thanksgiving weekend that can get burned in a VPF scenario. I don't know about all drive-ins, but there are many times in the spring and fall at my place (weather related issues, county fairs, etc.) where our negotiated percentages for film rental won''t equal the guaranteed minimum of the studio. In that scenario we'd end up paying the shipping and the guaranteed minimum (usually $250 +/-) to the studio for playing their product whereas the studio was forced to pay an $800.00 VPF. I know our grosses in the spring and the fall are low, and so do the studios. Instead of us paying the minimum, and they being forced to pay the $800.00 VPF, they'll end up just refusing to book the film at our place. I'd hate to think that we might have missed the opening of "Breaking Dawn" a couple of months ago due to some studio person thinking it MIGHT rain, resulting in low grosses and we'd have been passed up on the opportunity to play the product. That ONE film practically paid the bills for the whole entire month.  |  IP: Logged

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