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Topic: Need help from my pilot friends on here...
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 05-21-2012 06:07 PM
Agreed completely - if you're ever having actually to use the emergency exit for real, that means there's an emergency ... and an emergency on a plane by definition means that at the very least you're going to be on edge, and at worst there's going to be a panic going on. When looking at emergency exit cards, my starting point is to assume that all I need to do is to pull the lever, and then the door will open and (if there is one) the slide will deploy automatically; and then to ask myself what is different from that, if anything, and to try to remember it. On the Fokker 70, for example, the card shows the door detaching completely from the fuselage (I'm not a complete plane geek, honest! I just know this because I travel on them quite frequently). It also shows the person putting the door on the seat next to them, which seems to me unrealistic if someone is sitting in it at the time. If I ever had to, I think I'd just chuck it out of the plane. But in any case, if you're not expecting to have to lift a 40-pound object out of the way, I'd guess that this could cause a real problem if an evacuation had to be done for real.
Although no-one's life is at stake, the thought processes in a way must be similar to that of a projection breakdown. I used to train projectionists to stop and think if confronted by a brain wrap, lamp going out, sudden loss of sound etc., because suddenly rushing in to doing something could make the problem worse. But of course that's easier said than done and takes a lot of willpower if the phone is ringing and you know that 300 teenagers are giving you a slow handclap in the auditorium below.
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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!
Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 06-11-2012 03:40 PM
quote: American Customer Relations
It sounds like the plane stalled out, similar to a car stalling and just needed to be restarted.
Wow. Unbelievable that bit of total ignorance came from a spokesperson at a major air carrier. There's simply no way jet engines just "stall out" when idling or at breakaway thrust settings on the ground unless one turns the fuel off or greatly disturbs the incoming air flow. Once lit, they stay lit, even if the igniters are turned off.
It's true that if the airflow coming into the engine(s) has been disturbed enough, the engine can overtemp and fail. But that requires a big disturbance (like a large tailwind, debris in the inlets, or standing in another aircraft's jet blast) and that doesn't seem to be the case here.
My 757-rated buddies never returned my inquiries, so I still don't know of a combination of events that would lead to the total shutdown situation described here. Usually, when a transport-category aircraft has just begun taxiing for departure, the engine igniters will still be on, and the APU will still be on and sharing electrical and air loads. I don't know if a 757 can be dispatched with an Deferred or MEL (MEL - Minimum Equipment List) APU.
I don't remember if American taxis with both engines running or not. Many carriers don't start the other engine until just before taking the active runway for departure. Still, I can't think of a single-point failure that would result in both engines and the APU shutting down.
And even if such a simultaneous shutdown happens, there is still battery power for some systems on the flight deck. The escape path lighting in the cabin is separately powered by its own batteries too.
I can see non-essential loads (like the In-Flight Entertainment (IFE) system (playing the safety briefing), and galley power) going off-line in the event of electrical buses going off-line, but to lose everything... I just don't understand how that can happen.
And for Frank, yes there is an Aircraft Logbook which must be aboard the aircraft and kept current. Apparently in this case, the situation was not considered noteworthy, and therefore no log entries were made. Also apparently, no calls were made to either dispatch or maintenance control. Curiouser and curiouser...
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