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This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
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Author
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Topic: Torrent Sites still going strong
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 04-11-2017 10:58 PM
Reading that exchange (or most any sting of Youtube or Twitter posts and there's no question in my mind -- the nation is doomed.
quote: Lyle Romer
Now, to break the code by brute force you'd have to try every possible key on potentially thousands of different algorithms. It is still breakable but would take a lot of time.
By then it will be out on video!
How robust is this watermark of which we speak? I mean, does it give just general information perhaps about the location, theatre, etc. Or is it more robust. In other words, does it have enough of a digital DNA to make it a real deterrent, and when not a deterrent, is it legally strong enough to get people caught and prosecuted?
Of course, if Academy members were required actually go out see movies in real theatres like the rest of the real people instead of being coddled with those Academy screener copies, you know, the least secure link in that piracy funnel out to the land of the bootleg stream, then maybe there wouldn't be such herculean efforts needed at the IMB. It might not stop ALL piracy, but it certainly would plug up a significant amount.
I say there sure seems to be a lot of near brain surgery-level effort going it to encryption at the projector end of the business and not nearly enough security in all those computers and laptops that the big execs and middle-management honchos carry around and have way too easy access to pre-release content. I am sure I mentioned it before, that I was at a party in which an assistant editor was proudly showing off the big blockbuster movie he was working on, playing it on his laptop which, much to my amazement, he only had a password to start the OS, nothing more than a few keystrokes; no protection at all for the movie file itself. And to my even further amazement, that laptop sat unattended after the screening with lots of people milling around, many I am sure he had no idea who they were. That big blockbuster was a thumbdrive away from being sold to China and duplicated on millions of DVDs. Of course studios want get all the algorithms and KDMs and super high-tech digital security protocols in place, but they need to look to the alarm systems in there own house.
As an IT once told me, sure you need to convince Users to come up with more secure passwords, but even before that, tell the dolts to lock their damn office doors.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-12-2017 03:33 AM
quote: Mike Blakesley
It's surprising that "reputable locations" are allowed to sell these things that are set up to do illegal activity. Although, I guess it's no different from a store selling "rolling papers" knowing full well the customers are going to roll illegal substances in those papers - the crime isn't being committed in the store.
There's a distinctive difference between selling "rolling papers" and those *free lunch for all* boxes. The outlet selling those "rolling papers" probably isn't selling the (illegal) goods that could go into them. So, it's up to the customer if he just rolls a mighty big cigarette or puts in something different.
It's the same as somebody selling me a generic Kodi box. Kodi is a free piece of software and there's nothing illegal about it. It becomes illegal or at least doubtfully legal, once I start installing certain plug-ins or other extensions.
Now, if I would buy an otherwise generic Kodi box and it had installed one of those plug-ins installed by default, it would still be doubtful but probably still bordering the legal, as long as the feature wasn't advertised.
If those boxes are sold and marketed as being the box that allows you to watch the latest movies and series entirely for free, it will quite obviously becoming illegal. You're actively marketing an illegal activity as one of the main selling points of this box.
I think the problem of those boxes will more or less solve itself though. Many of those boxes will stop working, once the infrastructure they run on, gets shut down. Once a particular piece of pirate-automation-software gets sufficient attention, it will eventually be taken down. The boxes connecting to it will stop working.
That's also why you're pretty darn stupid if you run an outlet selling those things as "free premium all-you-can-watch" boxes. Not only are you exposing yourself to litigation, your often unknowing customers will get back pissed at you, once their box stops working...
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-12-2017 11:16 AM
quote: Frank Cox
I think part of it is the ubiquitousness of those boxes. If they are available for sale on the shelf of your friendly local hardware store and from a website that you do a lot of online shopping for other stuff from, why would the average person think "This isn't legitimate."
Everyone has heard of things too good to be true. A box that lets you watch Hollywood movies for free definitely falls in that category. Any reasonable person should be suspicious when seeing the product. I think anyone who would immediately believe at face value those piracy boxes are legal is either a gullible person who can be easily had in any con game or the person is just plain lying to himself and lying to everyone else after buying it.
If we want to watch Hollywood movies legally we have to pay. There is no free & legal way to watch movies anymore. Deep down these Kodi Kustomers must know this. Movie theater tickets aren't free. Cable/satellite TV service is not free. Subscriptions to Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu and other streaming services aren't free. DVDs and Blu-rays at the store aren't free. Logically it wouldn't seem like movies on these Kodi boxes would be free either, but gullible people are making the leap in logic anyway.
The only truly free way to watch movies was on over the air broadcast TV channels. 30 years ago it was common for national broadcast networks and local affiliates to play movies. They would use movies to fill odd programming blocks like late night. At least one or more nights of the week the national networks would air a movie in prime time. Those days are long gone. Those odd programming blocks are now filled with infomercials, news programs, reality TV shows, etc. Now it's a very rare thing for a national broadcast network or local affiliate to show a movie. ABC still shows The Ten Commandments on Easter weekend. Outside of maybe a couple other movies aired during big holidays that's pretty much it.
quote: Mike Blakesley
It's surprising that "reputable locations" are allowed to sell these things that are set up to do illegal activity. Although, I guess it's no different from a store selling "rolling papers" knowing full well the customers are going to roll illegal substances in those papers - the crime isn't being committed in the store.
At least with rolling papers you could put regular tobacco in them. My mother's father was a Navy veteran who rolled his own cigarettes. He died of lung cancer too, kicking the bucket the same week as Elvis.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 04-12-2017 12:09 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
A box that lets you watch Hollywood movies for free definitely falls in that category. Any reasonable person should be suspicious when seeing the product.
That's because you and me and all the other members here know how the industry works. Laymen don't have a clue. I can tell you the thought process people go through.
- People keep seeing news reports that some movie "raked in" $140 million on its opening weekend. Tickets cost over $10 at their local theater, and popcorn is even more expensive, so they think the industry is just rolling in money. Nobody thinks about "cost of doing business" unless they're actually in that business.
- People see Redbox renting movies for a dollar, and they can get hundreds of movies streaming over Netflix for $8 a month, so that lowers their perceived value for the movies. In their minds, the video industry is just gravy for the movie studios.
- People are paying for their Kodi or their Movie-O-Matic or whatever it's called, so they think they ARE PAYING for the stuff that plays through it - they just think they're getting a bargain, because the industry has so much money that they don't mind selling these boxes at a bargain price. Plus, they don't differentiate between the maker of the boxes and the studios, theaters, etc. - to them, it's all "the movie industry." They figure the the industry will sell MILLIONS of the boxes, therefore they'll "rake in" plenty of money that way.
Remember, this is basically the same "public" that heard Orson Welles on the radio and was convinced the aliens were attacking.
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 04-12-2017 01:01 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
If we want to watch Hollywood movies legally we have to pay. There is no free & legal way to watch movies anymore. Deep down these Kodi Kustomers must know this. Movie theater tickets aren't free. Cable/satellite TV service is not free. Subscriptions to Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu and other streaming services aren't free. DVDs and Blu-rays at the store aren't free. Logically it wouldn't seem like movies on these Kodi boxes would be free either, but gullible people are making the leap in logic anyway.
Thing is, the way movies are sold on these other platform like Netflix -- the consumer pays their 8 bucks and then everything they watch on Netflix is "free" or perhaps they think of it as "paid for." Now here comes this other box that they buy for $159 bucks and they then also think that they PAID for the movies they can watch on it, same as they paid for the movies that stream on their paid-for Netflix.
I think Mike is right -- the industry has devalued the product to such a serious extent and has blurred the lines by rushing content to video that lots of these consumers may not even consider that the film is still in the theatre..."It's two weeks old; it must be on video already isn't it? That's how we get it on the FireTv thing." They see On Demand services like Optimum which has many titles they claim to be "Same time that it is in the theatres." Do you really think the average consumer is going to be able to figure out a movie's multiple release schedules...when it's On Demand, when it's streaming on this or that service...when it's on DVD or when it's available for $1? And even if they pause for a moment to ponder the ethics of why they can watch it on their hacked device, it would only be a fleeting fraction of a second because that studio has taught Joe Movie Consumer that movies are dirt cheap anyway...they are on sale for a buck at Redbox. Even if he might think it's probably not 100% legit, it barely rises above petty theft. Movie are worth a dollar.
And if the movie is more than a week or two old, the studio has already bragged about the fact that they have made millions more than it cost to produce the film, first weekend it opened. It's all perception and the studios, mostly in their greed to surpass their last quarter at any cost, are losing the perception game with the public.
Cheapening the product by rushing it out to lower priced video markets, not holding it back so it's ANTICIPATED by the public, selling it for less than a cup of coffee..it all adds up to a devaluation that the public will then translate into this dismissive attitude toward watching pirated movies that we are all lamenting.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-12-2017 03:55 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
People are paying for their Kodi or their Movie-O-Matic or whatever it's called, so they think they ARE PAYING for the stuff that plays through it - they just think they're getting a bargain, because the industry has so much money that they don't mind selling these boxes at a bargain price.
They may approach it with that understanding, but it's still really stupid, faulty logic.
When you buy a computer the only software bundled with it is usually crap-ware. You have to buy the applications you'll use to get work done. Depending on the industry the software can cost as much or even more than the computer running it. When someone buys a CD player the box doesn't include any music CDs. The same goes for DVD players, Blu-ray players and Ultra-HD Blu-ray players. Legal video streaming devices like the little Roku box, Chromecast, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, etc. don't come bundled with lots of free stuff. You gotta pull up the various streaming or cable TV apps and log into them. Unlike those Kodi boxes, the cable and streaming applications have revolving monthly charges.
I've never messed around with any of those Kodi boxes, but I'm wondering if they allow both legal and illegal streaming apps to run on them. If someone's legal Netflix account can run alongside the illegal piracy apps it would be laughably crazy for anyone to enter any login information into the piracy box. I can just imagine these Kodi boxes harvesting all sorts of user information and sending it off to organized crime rings if the user is stupid enough to enter any of it.
quote: Frank Angel
Thing is, the way movies are sold on these other platform like Netflix -- the consumer pays their 8 bucks and then everything they watch on Netflix is "free" or perhaps they think of it as "paid for." Now here comes this other box that they buy for $159 bucks and they then also think that they PAID for the movies they can watch on it, same as they paid for the movies that stream on their paid-for Netflix.
Again, the difference with every legit streaming service or cable TV app (like HBO GO) is the customer has revolving monthly fees that never end. The customer also has account information that must be established and maintained to activate the account on the device and log in successfully. I can't believe people are stupid enough to think there is such a thing as a "buy once and you're done with monthly fees" service.
quote: Frank Angel
Cheapening the product by rushing it out to lower priced video markets, not holding it back so it's ANTICIPATED by the public, selling it for less than a cup of coffee..it all adds up to a devaluation that the public will then translate into this dismissive attitude toward watching pirated movies that we are all lamenting.
Another thing that has cheapened the product is Hollywood studios are putting in the least amount of work into items like movies on DVD and Blu-ray. Home theater industry critics are giving harsh reviews of Star Wars: Rogue One. The image and sound quality are great. But the disc doesn't have extras that are worth a damn. It pales in comparison to the effort put into previous Star Wars DVD and Blu-ray discs. It's as if the movie studio doesn't even want to sell movies on disc.
I've never bought a movie via download or to virtually own in the cloud. I probably never will do that. If I have to buy what seems like an even lesser quality version of the movie I'll just stream it on Netflix or catch it on cable.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 04-12-2017 04:27 PM
Let's stop calling them Kodi boxes. It makes Kodi look bad. Kodi itself is just a free open source media center and a pretty decent one. It's not a piracy tool. It's also being sponsored by some big brand names like Alienware/Dell and Nvidia. Some of those auto-piracy-boxes are based upon Kodi and most often Android. You wouldn't associate Android with piracy.
I'm pretty sure many people out there don't have a clue about piracy regarding those boxes. They paid something north of 100 bucks for it and it should be ample compensation to watch this stuff for free...
Also, don't expect too much sympathy for Hollywood from the average public. They don't see that they're also hurting the normal man. But like Frank already pointed out, they see studios boasting about how succesful a movie is. How they earned the entire movie back on the opening weekend. Furthermore, they see A-list stars living the good life, owning expensive cars and big houses. They don't see a failing movie theater.
I'm afraid Hollywood really made their own bed. The perceived value of a movie is near zero for the average public. They diluted their own strong brands and franchises by massively overfeeding their own consumers and their own reputation is that of sleazy, greedy bastards... It's still no excuse for rampant piracy, but they're currently not helping themselves and the industry they support.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Again, the difference with every legit streaming service or cable TV app (like HBO GO) is the customer has revolving monthly fees that never end. The customer also has account information that must be established and maintained to activate the account on the device and log in successfully. I can't believe people are stupid enough to think there is such a thing as a "buy once and you're done with monthly fees" service.
I think you can divide them about 50/50 into "just stupid" and "just ignorant". There might be also a substantial group falling into both categories, but let's just call them "just stupid" for sake of simplicity. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. -- Not my words...
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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 04-12-2017 07:59 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I've never messed around with any of those Kodi boxes, but I'm wondering if they allow both legal and illegal streaming apps to run on them.
Yes, yes they do.
The Kodi software natively knows how to connect to things like a NAS on your LAN, or a DLNA, but one can also install addons, and there are popular addons that connect to a multiplicity of sources, some legal, for example, a YouTube plugin, and some not so legal.
If you've not seen Kodi in action, have a look at this video on YouTube, for example. There are many others.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-13-2017 10:29 AM
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Let's stop calling them Kodi boxes. It makes Kodi look bad. Kodi itself is just a free open source media center and a pretty decent one. It's not a piracy tool. It's also being sponsored by some big brand names like Alienware/Dell and Nvidia. Some of those auto-piracy-boxes are based upon Kodi and most often Android. You wouldn't associate Android with piracy.
If the piracy apps are pre-loaded in the box and retailers are selling the boxes as supposedly legitimate products it's a piracy box as far as I'm concerned. Whenever I hear the term "Kodi" I automatically think "piracy box." I absolutely know I'm not the only person who see Kodi in that image.
If the box is coming pre-loaded with piracy apps, I wonder what else might be pre-loaded. This kind of device would be perfect malware bait for unwitting suckers. How would anyone know if it was infected with all sorts of spyware? If the device asks for any personal information, particularly any credit card of banking info one would have to be really idiotic to enter any of that info into the device.
I can just see a gullible user getting had by a device like this and then going to the police to complain about all the money suddenly lost. Then they get hit with the double whammy, finding out what they were doing was illegal. And then they lose even more money in fines, court costs, etc.
Android may be a more flexible platform than iOS, allowing users and developers to do more with it. But most Android users are smart enough to download any new applications from Google Play, where the apps are screened for malware.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I think you can divide them about 50/50 into "just stupid" and "just ignorant". There might be also a substantial group falling into both categories, but let's just call them "just stupid" for sake of simplicity.
I think it's fair to call anyone using these piracy boxes who thinks the box is a legit and legal device "stupid." I have another label for most of the people using these devices: "thieves." Deep down they know the piracy apps they're using are illegal. They'll vomit out some bullshit to rationalize their illegal activity, like "Aurra Sing" in the discussion thread Buck quoted. Whether or not anyone listens to the bullshit they know they're still in the wrong.
quote: Mike Blakesley
They DON'T want to sell movies on disk. They'd much rather do away with physical product altogether. That way they not only wouldn't have to produce it, ship it, etc. and they'd also save on the production costs for those "extras" people expect on disks.
I'd like to know how many download versions of movies Hollywood studios are selling versus the movie sales on physical discs. I've never bought a download version of a movie and have no desire to do so. But that's just me. I'm under the impression the sell-through numbers for movie downloads are puny compared to retail disc sales. I mean, why bother buying a download of a movie when streaming it gives you the same experience?
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