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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Are you gonna get an Apple HomePod? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Are you gonna get an Apple HomePod?
Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 02-23-2018 04:42 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.
- Cardinal Richelieu

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Mike Blakesley
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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 02-23-2018 07:03 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe the "Echo" and similar devices need two microphones: One that's connected to the Amazon or whoever but is NOT always listening, and one that IS always listening for the wake-up word and its only function is to turn on the other one.

And a big red light that comes on when the 'real' connected microphone is listening.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 02-24-2018 01:28 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Google Home devices currently operate in much the same way, although they don't use separate microphones for it. I think the separate microphones in itself also aren't necessary, since you could still cheat in the software.

Google Home devices are constantly listening for their activation phrase "Ok Google / Hey Google". Once they recognized the trigger, they will light up and respond. Everything you say from this point on, will be transmitted to Google.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the traffic pattern of those devices seems to match Google's claims, at least for now. The Amazon devices don't seem to be playing this nice.

What's even more evil though is one of those new Samsung "intelligent" fridges. I don't know what they're communicating, but they manage to push up to a gigabyte per day of traffic... They do have cameras built-in, who try to scan EAN/IAN codes and expiry dates on the stuff you put in there. I suppose they decided to put this "intelligence" in the "cloud", so it's constantly sending the contents of your fridge to Samsung...

quote: Mike Blakesley
I guess if I was a drug dealer I'd think twice about having an Echo in my house though.
It all seems to be fine for now, as long as the democratic systems around you are still mostly working. But we all know that stuff can go haywire, we only need to look at the recent past or just look around in the world.

Once shit starts turning haywire, you might find yourself on the "wrong" side of things faster than you think, simply based on political views, race, religion, sexual orientation or whatnot. In those cases, those years of stored archive of your inner live, like your buying habits, your Internet searches and even your voice recordings might quickly be turned into a tool against you. And like Frank already anecdotally mentioned, they'll usually find what they're looking for, as long as they look deep enough and have sufficient stuff to look through.

There is this much bespoke Second Amendment, which is supposed to keep the government honest. I think there's a much more important amendment to do just that, the 4th, because in this hyper-connected world, access to information will be the weapons of the future.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-24-2018 04:37 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The spirit of the 4th amendment has been pretty badly compromised. Once you venture outside of your house very little privacy remains. Surveillance cameras are proliferating at a rapid rate. Facial recognition technology continues to improve. Our phones and other connected devices can literally track where we go, even if the GPS feature is not running.

Most computer users are not savvy enough to use a VPN to protect privacy while surfing online; some ISPs and other connected services discourage or won't allow VPN use.

Most people consider their own home or apartment a sacred bastion of privacy. I think many take that privacy for granted. These new connected devices can undermine that. I think a Samsung refrigerator that constantly scans your food is creepy. It's one thing for the fridge to hard sell you on buying more of the food you like. But what if Samsung is bribed by health insurance companies to share your food buying habits? I put nothing past intrusion efforts by companies or the state. The smart fridge is just one example. Once self driving cars are sold to the public on a widespread basis driving the old fashioned way by hand may cost drivers extra on their car insurance. There's no doubt these cars of the future will be constantly connected to networks, reporting all kinds of data while they are operating.

Concerns such as mine might seem like paranoia in the context of our relatively "free" society. Free societies have caved into dystopia before.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

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From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
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 - posted 02-24-2018 10:09 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, just to tap on this one more time...

Buying two of these things, assuming you could get them to work in unison, would only give you dual-mono... not stereo.

... unless there's a way to sync up the units and assign one left and the other right?

Didn't think you could do that.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
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 - posted 02-25-2018 12:37 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apple HomePod has sufficient speakers to render a stereo image and uses active room correction.

Amazon Echo and Echo Plus have stereo speakers.
Amazon Echo Dot 1st Gen does have stereo speakers, but the current generation only has mono. It has a stereo AUX though.

Google Home Mini: Only mono
Google Home: Only mono
Google Home Max: Stereo

Google currently is working on a feature called "Speaker Pairs", which lets you combine multiple speakers over Bluetooth (not only Google Home speakers) to create a stereo field. It also supports room equalization. The feature is still pretty much in beta though.

As far as I know, neither Amazon, nor Apple currently support combining multiple speakers to create a "virtual stereo" system, at least not without third party tools. Since all those speakers are essentially Bluetooth speakers, you could possibly put them into a "Virtual Speaker" pair on an Android device that supports the feature already though.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Concerns such as mine might seem like paranoia in the context of our relatively "free" society. Free societies have caved into dystopia before.
A little "paranoia" regarding stuff like this isn't all that bad. We easily forget what our forefathers had to endure to get us the little freedoms we now enjoy and which we're collectively giving away so easily, in return for a little fake security and some fake comfort.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 02-25-2018 04:42 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Our phones and other connected devices can literally track where we go, even if the GPS feature is not running.
I can't help wondering if this is at least in part behind the trend of sealing batteries into smartphones and tablets, and making it impossible to remove them temporarily. Back in the days of Blackberries and Nokias, if you were paranoid about that sort of thing, you could remove the battery in a few seconds. Not so with a modern Apple or Samsung smartphone. I'm sure that even if you have your phone switched totally off as far as the GUI is concerned, a lot of stuff continues to run in the background.

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Carsten Kurz
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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 02-25-2018 04:43 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apple did already announce both stereo and multiroom operation modes for the coming software updates. They would be stupid to not offer these modes, then being able to sell multiple devices per user.

My rather cheap Sony BT speaker supports SyncStereo over Bluetooth. The sender doesn't even need to know about that mode.

For the homepod with it's advanced 360 degree acoustic modelling and beam forming technology, adding stereo is not as simple as adding a second speaker and feeding it a signal.

- Carsten

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Frank Cox
Film God

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From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
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 - posted 03-07-2018 03:01 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Amazon admits Alexa is creepily laughing at people

quote:
Over the past few days, users with Alexa-enabled devices have reported hearing strange, unprompted laughter. Amazon responded to the creepiness in a statement to The Verge, saying, “We’re aware of this and working to fix it.”

As noted in media reports and a trending Twitter moment, Alexa laughs without being prompted to wake. People on Twitter and Reddit reported that they thought it was an actual person laughing near them, which can be scary when you’re home alone. Many responded to the cackling sounds by unplugging their Alexa-enabled devices.

Twitter user @CaptHandlebar was one of the first to report experiencing this back on February 22nd:

So Alexa decided to laugh randomly while I was in the kitchen. Freaked @SnootyJuicer and I out. I thought a kid was laughing behind me. pic.twitter.com/6dblzkiQHp
— CaptHandlebar (@CaptHandlebar) February 23, 2018

Since then, different people have noted hearing the laughter. It’s sometimes unprompted or appears as a bizarre response to requests to turn off the lights.

Lying in bed about to fall asleep when Alexa on my Amazon Echo Dot lets out a very loud and creepy laugh... there’s a good chance I get murdered tonight.
— Gavin Hightower (@GavinHightower) February 26, 2018

Many have related the laughter back to a moment in 2001: A Space Odyssey when HAL 9000 turns evil and says, “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.” Maybe it’s a sign that having smart devices in our homes is another step toward a creepy, dystopian future where robot overlords rule. When does that Terminator sequel come out again?


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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
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 - posted 03-08-2018 11:19 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
But what if Samsung is bribed by health insurance companies to share your food buying habits?
This is why I don't use membership cards at drug stores and supermarkets. At supermarkets, I ask them to use their card and they aways do. Of course when I occasionally use a debit card (where the card itself or via Apple Pay), I suppose they know what I'm buying anyway.

I really think this push to make all appliances "smart" is ridiculous. I attended a SMPTE meeting last week where they reviewed CES and the speaker said the appliance manufacturers are pushing the notion that the refrigerator should be the center of the connected home. I don't buy the notion that most people would want their fridge to automatically order food for them when they're running out, especially fresh food.

Back in the 70's when I was a recording engineer and producer, I had to produce a radio spot for "the world's first talking refrigerator". Basically, it was just a cassette recorder mounted in the door, the idea being you could leave messages like "put the meatloaf in the oven at 375 and bake for 20 minutes" and "don't eat the pie". That didn't work either.

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Frank Cox
Film God

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From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
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 - posted 03-09-2018 12:07 AM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess we all have our own personal "lines that shall not be crossed."

I wouldn't want an always-on microphone in my living room, but I pay for almost everything that I buy using one of two credit cards. Using the cards actually makes me money, since I get a cash rebate every year of a percentage of the amount spent on the card. If I paid cash I would still be paying full price but wouldn't get that rebate.

I buy 99% of my groceries at the local Coop store where I have a membership number and I get a percentage of what I spend there back each year as well. And I go to Costco four or five times a year, and get a cash rebate from them as well.

Ultimately, I guess that very nearly everything that I buy is on record somewhere.

That doesn't bother me, but an always-on microphone does.

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Dave Bird
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From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
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 - posted 03-09-2018 11:28 AM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our family ran supermarkets for generations. The big boys have been dreaming of "direct to home" delivery for decades, but nobody's ever cracked the nut....mainly due to the razor-thin (to negative) margins in retail grocery. The customer just doesn't want to spend one nickel more so long as anyone with a large box building is willing to schlep out skids of product and beat you on price. So you never know, but.....

The thing is, the concept isn't new at all. Even in the 80's and 90's we still took many orders by phone (or fax!), shopped it and delivered it at NO CHARGE. Can't get a better deal than that (and you WON'T ever see a business entirely operated in this way be as careful as we were in selecting the best produce or meat in the counter). And there will always be someone to beat you on price.

I think people are going to stick with doing their own food shopping for quite some time, though you'll see things like cashiers and check-out lanes disappear.

(And no damn way we're putting one of these "personal assistants" in our house!)

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 03-15-2018 07:35 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think there are some aspects of certain food that make you want to see (and maybe touch) it before you buy. I much prefer to find and buy technical items on the net so that I can look up technical parameters, sizes, colors, etc.. But e.g. fresh food can not be selected by such parameters. It's a sensual thing, and you want to see it before you buy. Of course, non-fresh food, brand stuff, etc., is usually safe going. No trouble to order e.g. a bottle of Heinz - you know what you get. That's why brands will become even more important with online food ordering.

- Carsten

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Martin McCaffery
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 - posted 03-16-2018 09:20 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dave Bird
though you'll see things like cashiers and check-out lanes disappear.
I don't know about other places, but here they went through a lot of trouble installing self checkout lanes and now they are gone, or just down to one per store. They may save money when everything goes smoothly, but, like driverless cars, you still have to have someone live for when things go wrong. And things always go wrong.

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Frank Cox
Film God

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From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 05-24-2018 07:51 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[URL=https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/woman-says-her-amazon-devicefujitsu ar-dl10-recorded-private-conversation-sent-it-out-to-random-contact/755507974]Woman says her Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact[/URL]

quote:
A Portland family contacted Amazon to investigate after they say a private conversation in their home was recorded by Amazon's Alexa -- the voice-controlled smart speaker -- and that the recorded audio was sent to the phone of a random person in Seattle, who was in the family’s contact list.

"My husband and I would joke and say I'd bet these devices are listening to what we're saying," said Danielle, who did not want us to use her last name.

Every room in her family home was wired with the Amazon devices to control her home's heat, lights and security system.

But Danielle said two weeks ago their love for Alexa changed with an alarming phone call. "The person on the other line said, 'unplug your Alexa devices right now,'" she said. "'You're being hacked.'"

That person was one of her husband's employees, calling from Seattle.

"We unplugged all of them and he proceeded to tell us that he had received audio files of recordings from inside our house," she said. "At first, my husband was, like, 'no you didn't!' And the (recipient of the message) said 'You sat there talking about hardwood floors.' And we said, 'oh gosh, you really did hear us.'"

Danielle listened to the conversation when it was sent back to her, and she couldn't believe someone 176 miles away heard it too.

"I felt invaded," she said. "A total privacy invasion. Immediately I said, 'I'm never plugging that device in again, because I can't trust it.'"

Danielle says she unplugged all the devices, and she repeatedly called Amazon. She says an Alexa engineer investigated.

"They said 'our engineers went through your logs, and they saw exactly what you told us, they saw exactly what you said happened, and we're sorry.' He apologized like 15 times in a matter of 30 minutes and he said we really appreciate you bringing this to our attention, this is something we need to fix!"

But Danielle says the engineer did not provide specifics about why it happened, or if it's a widespread issue.

"He told us that the device just guessed what we were saying," she said. Danielle said the device did not audibly advise her it was preparing to send the recording, something it’s programmed to do.

When KIRO 7 asked Amazon questions, they sent this response:

“Amazon takes privacy very seriously. We investigated what happened and determined this was an extremely rare occurrence. We are taking steps to avoid this from happening in the future."

Amazon offered to “de-provision” Danielle’s Alexa communications so she could keep using its Smart Home Features. But Danielle is hoping Amazon gives her a refund for her devices, which she said their representatives have been unwilling to do. She says she’s curious to find out if anyone else has experienced the same issue.

"A husband and wife in the privacy of their home have conversations that they're not expecting to be sent to someone (in) their address book," she said.


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