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Topic: Steven Colbert says he watched AVENGERS with no soundtrack.

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2019 02:05 PM

quote: Sean McKinnon
I can tell you that the system at Cinemacon is calibrated to the same spec for SPL as any other Atmos/7.1 set-up. However, the studios have final say over how the content is presented including what level it is played back at.

If that's the case, it's obvious that the powers-that-be are suffering from either ear damage, or hearing fatigue.

CinemaCon aside, what those sound guys are forgetting is that the trailers don't NEED to yell at you to get your attention. They've already got a captive audience, most of whom is watching the screen. The ones not watching are glued to their phones, and would probably not pay attention unless a nuclear attack started destroying the building.

It is kind of fun to think of some poor shlub in the booth at Cinemacon getting yelled at. "You dumb sonofabitch, I wanted that trailer played on the Barco at 7.5 and you clearly played the motherfucker on the NEC and it was only at 7!"

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 05-29-2019 05:49 PM

Well, there is a 85 LEQm regulation for trailer loudness (TASA). And it IS followed by most trailers I get to know.

The trouble is, those people mixing that trailer forget that THEIR trailer is not the only one the audience will listen through before the main feature starts. 85 LEQm is not a 'proper' level, it's a 'near-complaint' level. Quite obviously, after 20minutes of preshow, a 'near-complaint' level is becoming a 'complaint-level'.

- Carsten

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-29-2019 06:15 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
Their "intent" is to scream at you. Whether they believe it or not, it is off-putting to the industry. I, for one, would welcome regulation on preshow levels that sets the maximum for EVERYBODY so nobody has to worry about being lost in the crowd.

Thing that we also have to remember is that trailers are advertisements and created to make you remember them, not to make you comfortable. If screaming at you will make you remember the product (in this case a movie) the ad agency and the trailer producers have no problem doing just that. This issue has been going on for decades, and now with the headroom digital affords the sound mixer, he/she can mix that ad right up to red line and probably that is just what his client, the studio marketing director or producer wants him to do. We are worse off now than we were with trailer analog tracks, but it an issue we spoke about seems like eons.

There is no reason why with automation, exhibitors can't reduce levels on trailers at will. I am not that familiar with what the servers can or can't do, but seems it would be a simple thing if the industry REALLY wanted to solve the problem, i.e., not assault the paying customers' ears, the servers could oh so simply allow volume parameters to be programmed for every entity in the play list just like they program aspect ratio changes or any other change per item. And therein lies the rub...IF THEY WANTED TO. Do they really?

The reason trailers have been too loud all these years is because the studios produced them that way. Right or wrong, they think a loud ad is a better ad. And since this industry is a mutual masturbatory symbiosis between studio and exhibitor, what motivation do we really believe the exhibitors have of going thru the effort to thwart what the studio wants? And THAT boys and girls, is why nothing substantial has been done to curb uncomfortable audio levels on trailers since the dawn of Dolby Stereo. Any I would even bet, if theatres actually began countering these overly loud trailer levels, the studios would soon get miffed enough write into their master contracts that at whatever level the theatre plays the feature, they must play the trailer pack at that same level as well.

Of course someone should tell the mucky mucks at the studios that if ALL the trailers are loud, then NONE of the trailers will stand out -- their trailer will just be equally annoying as every other trailer.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 05-29-2019 07:20 PM

My non-sync music plays at 3.3

The "start show" cue switches to the movie audio source, cranks the house lights down to mid and sets the volume to 4.5

The "start feature" cue cranks the house lights down to low and sets the volume to 5.2

The "credits" cut cranks the house lights back to mid and that's all it does.

The "end show" cue switches back to non-sync, turns the house lights to high and sets the volume to 3.3.

I've been using those settings since I got the digital cinema setup and I'm pretty happy with the results.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-29-2019 11:29 PM

Ours is similar, except ours starts at 3.6 and stays there until the feature starts. I like to play the trailers soft compared to the feature.

This is one of those situations where being a one-screen theater is nice. We don't have a "feature" automation setting since every movie is different. I find a setting that sounds good to me when I test the movie, and I let the staff know what that is, and we reset the volume (thanks to a volume pot next to the ticket window) for every show. It's basically muscle memory now. Since we can see and hear the movie from the boxoffice it's pretty quickly obvious if somebody forgets to turn it up for the feature. I can't even remember the last time that happened.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-30-2019 06:44 AM

That, guys, is the beauty of the small, mom and pop type exhibitor where human beings are actually involved with the presentation. But of course that is probably only the case in maybe 10% of all exhibition. The other 90%, the bulk of exhibitors are the two or three mega-exhibitors that run godzillaplexes -- the automated, assembly-line cinemas -- and even if a server could adjust volume levels for trailers vs. feature, who's going to sit there and evaluate and set program levels specific to the 10 to 25 screens in the multiplex? And again to my point about intent -- if the studios WANT their trailer to play at ear-splitting volume which I believe they do since that's the way they've been produced for decades, eventually they will put contractual requirements in place on exhibitors who are seen consistently countering that intent by actively turning down those trailers. And let's face it, if the studios say, "Hey, play our trailers at the same level as the feature," AMC and Regal will certainly capitulate regardless of whether or not that annoys their customers.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-30-2019 12:11 PM

Disney, a few years ago, tried to get everyone to turn down the house lights during their trailers since they have spent millions of dollars producing them, blah blah blah. I don't think anyone followed that "direction." So I don't think the industry would cave on trailer volume either.

It just amazes me that something that is clearly a problem is not addressed by people who must KNOW it's a problem. But then there are a lot of problems that everyone knows about but are never addressed. This one would be one of the easiest to fix.

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William Kucharski
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 244
From: Louisville, Colorado, United States of America
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 06-03-2019 07:52 PM

quote: Frank Angel
Of course someone should tell the mucky mucks at the studios that if ALL the trailers are loud, then NONE of the trailers will stand out -- their trailer will just be equally annoying as every other trailer.

That hasn't worked in the music industry.

Loudness War

One of my favorite examples, a recent Jennifer Nettles song:

No, that in fact isn't pleasant at all to listen to.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 06-03-2019 11:52 PM

quote: William Kucharski
One of the more unusual issues I’ve encountered (at least unusual to me) was at an AMC where all the channels were off by one. The left channel was silent, the left channel audio was playing in the center channel, the center channel was playing in the right channel, the right channel audio was playing in one of the surrounds and so on. Literally no one else in the theater noticed an issue.

I experienced that some years ago at several different AMC Theaters in NYC. I never perceived that it might be a processor problem. I just figured the same tech wired up the speakers or amps incorrectly at both theaters. I did complain to a manager in both cases. In one case, I returned to the same screen a few weeks later and nothing had changed. I haven't been back to that theaters since, although I have to believe the equipment has been upgraded since then.

quote: William Kucharski
No, that in fact isn't pleasant at all to listen to.

The over compression that's used in so many recordings today is completely insane. Back around the time when the "Beatles #1's" was originally released, I attended the AES convention. At a producer's panel, they were asked if The Beatles would have been as successful as they were if they had originally been mastered like #1's was and the general consensus was that they wouldn't have been because they would have been too tedious to listen to over and over again.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 06-05-2019 07:15 AM

quote: William Kucharski
No, that in fact isn't pleasant at all to listen to.

So, maybe you can give credit now to the cinemas that actually do you a pleasure while turning down the fader for trailers? [Smile]

quote: Mike Blakesley
Disney, a few years ago, tried to get everyone to turn down the house lights during their trailers since they have spent millions of dollars producing them, blah blah blah. I don't think anyone followed that "direction." So I don't think the industry would cave on trailer volume either.

I know back from when I actually ran movies in 35mm to the public, that we would reserve the honor of running directly in front of the feature, with the house lights off and the volume corrected to "feature volume" to a few "special" trailers. The first trailer of Star Wars Episode 1 was such a trailer.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-05-2019 01:51 PM

I've done that too. My favorite was in the trailer for the original "Independence Day"... I timed the full-off cue to happen right when the huge alien ship came into the picture and cast shadow over the whole city. It was cool as hell.

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