Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: THX...friend, foe or lazy uncle?

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-1999, 01:08 AM:

Ahh THX. I remember when that meant something. Going to a THX theatre
meant that you could not find a better presentation of picture and especially sound
anywhere else. But now it is just a marketing scheme at best, and a rip off at
worst.

THX made a name for itself, er, EARNED a name for itself standardizing quality
in exhibition. I applaud everything they have done for their first 10 years. There is
no doubt that what they have done improved the industry by leaps and bounds.
But then the hype began to fade as did the quality control. Now upon visiting a
brand new theatre here in Colorado with every single screen THX certified, you
are treated to low, unbalanced sound, unintelligible dialog, a dim picture, and
overall a horrible presentation. What has THX come to? Put simply, THX doesn't
mean anything anymore.

I began noticing THX's descent when the Mann Bowles Crossing 12 opened up
in Colorado...every screen THX. The Mann tech EQ'd the sound before the THX
guy arrived on scene, and the reports are that it sounded absolutely incredible!
But then the THX guy arrived and re-EQ'd everything. He lowered the surround
levels to a whisper, you could hear the projector behind you and the projectionist
talking or even threading leader VERY clearly, and you would swear that they
forgot to install the subwoofers. It was bad. And not only that, but no 2
auditoriums in the complex sounded alike. They all had their goofy twirks.
Eventually the Mann tech would fix some of the more serious problems in the EQ,
but what does this say for THX now? At several newer UA theatres, the
non-THX houses sound much BETTER than the certified houses. At the last THX
installation for UA (the Denver West) the sound was so bad in the THX houses
that UA stopped doing THX altogether. It wasn't just that, though...UA felt they
weren't getting their $$$ worth with THX. It didn't bring in audiences anymore.

THX must be hurting. Now they "certify" LaserDiscs, VHS videotapes and DVDs
that look and sound no better (but sometimes worse) than normal LD's, tapes,
and DVDs. Obviously they are doing this for additional revenue because the
exhibition gig just ain't payin' the bills anymore. I wonder why.

Now THX is saying that they WILL certify digital masters of movies to be
released and exhibited via digital projection. As if it is a requirement for the
format. The last good thing they did/helped out with that I applaud is Dolby Digital
EX, which in itself is not phenomenal, but it is kinda cool.

Now I am not saying that all THX theatres suck. Many (probably most) are
incredibly good. But they no longer offer any kind of advantage. In my personal
opinion, THX would rather just sit back and collect the cash than do anything
constructive. They have had their time in the spotlight making the industry better,
but now maybe it is time to merge with a company like Dolby or something. But
their sound trailers are the best, I must admit to that! That would be cool. I'd love
to hear other peoples' opinions on this!

Posted by Anonymous on 05-30-1999, 01:09 AM:

I wish T.H.X. would start checking up on their theatres once inawhile. I know of
several that have horrible sound. No bass whatsoever and the treble is weak. And
I think that a T.H.X. theatre should be required to have digital sound nowadays.
There is still T.H.X. theatres that are still playing with plain dolby stereo and not
even SR. I agree with you that in the 80s that T.H.X. really meant something,but
now it just means you get to see the little fix it guy fly around the screen before the
feature.
There used to be some really good sounding theatres that had T.H.X. and it is
ashamed Lucasfilm has sold out to anyone who will pay them a buck for their
name.
Sorry for posting this anonymous, but I guess deep down I still have some respect
for what T.H.X. used to be.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-03-1999, 05:43 PM:

In Sydney, our one and only THX certified (at least the only one anyone ever bothered to advertise as such) is Cinema One at Village Cinema City. I remember seeing the original Batman there in 70mm and it was simply awesome. (not the movie, the sound). They haven't kept it up though and I'm not even sure they have a tech in to look at it anymore.

I still think it's a bonus to advertise it if you can, but THX should keep an eye on who is displaying their name and make sure it is still up to scratch.

------------------
John

Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 12-03-1999, 06:54 PM:

THX...Another Lucas tool? Puke. The THX houses I've been in,well,I've heard better.

Has anybody had any run-ins with the T.A.P? I see that on the end of select films with the 800 #. A normal movie goer I don't even think would fool with it. Most are usually happy if the film doesn't break more than once.

--Chris

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-03-1999, 07:21 PM:

Almost all the thx houses I deal with sound far better than the non thx houses in the same complex mainly because there are fewer corners cut

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-04-1999, 12:00 AM:

This was a topic on r.a.m.t. awhile ago. My own feeling is that THX was a Very Good Thing for many years. But in the past 3-4 years, it has gone down hill, trading their good name for money.

I think everyone should be actively involved in the construction of a THX approved auditourium at least once, working with architects, builders, etc. You will learn a lot. But after that, just go and do it yourself.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-04-1999, 03:10 AM:

In my complex 2 out of 16 theatres are THX certified. All 16 of them meet the specs, meaning that they have the baffles and all of the correct sound equipment, etc... It is a toss up as to which actually sounds better, the THX's or the non-THX's. I'd probably have to go with the 2 THX's since they are the big houses and just have more power and more subs.

But even our little houses sound as good if not better than anybody else's THX houses in town. Nowadays it is hard to find a THX tech who will give you a good EQ.

Posted by Frankie Angel (Member # 249) on 12-04-1999, 12:23 PM:

We are doing some major renovation in our large theatre (2450 seats). Since it is not just a movie theatre but a full stage, live performance theatre also, the architechs that were hired are not specifically cinema architechs. It is my job to move them in directions that will satisfy the motion picture presentation needs.

I have been trying to get THX to send me their specifications, especially regarding the frequency response and sound pressure level that THX certified cinemas need to be able to reach. I want to be able to say to the designers, I don't care what you do for live show sound, for cinema we need to be able get a sound pressure of 125db from 20 to 20 with a rolloff from 8K at such and such per octave with such and such amount distortion. THX sent me EVERYTHING else....air conditioning noise baffle charts, slope drawings, wall construction plans, everything but what I would think would be the simplest starting point for any sound system....the audio bandwidth and sound pressure levels it needs to reproduce.

Does anyone know of any literature where these specs can be found? I mean besides THX since they keep telling me they don't have those specs.

Also, does anyone know if THX has eliminated their original spec for point-of-sound surround speakers. Years ago when they first started and published an article in the SMPTE Journal, I read they prefered that the surrounds NOT be multiple wall speakers but point-of-source speaker systems in both corners of the theatre. In fact, I designed our surround based on that preference. We have JBL dual woofer/90 degree HF compression horns in each corner of the theatre and multiple smaller speakers in the center of the rear wall that I used to fill in the center orchestra (luckily now I can use them for the center surround). But I no longer see any reference to corner p-o-s surrounds, and what's more, I think mine is the only theatre I have ever seen with this configuration, except for the Zigfeld in NYC which had them for a time but I believe now has gone back to multiple side speakers.

Another theatre I work at has a dozen multiple speaker built in the ceiling for the surround channel. Very weird.

------------------
Frank Angel,
Brooklyn Center Cinema

www.BrooklynCenter.com

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-04-1999, 02:59 PM:

I don't ever remeber point source surrounds being THX proposed. The Large format industry (IMAX/IWERKS/ULTRA70?MEGA) all use point source surround and THX will aprove them but in a regular theatre as a norm
For a non digital theatre you are safe to assume a SPL of 104 2/3 of the way back in the theatre. For digital/mag it can be up to 112db 2/3 back
The response is flat from 40Hz to 2Khz rolling off 3 db per octave above that point to 16Kz
In large room like this SMPTE recomends a slightly greater roll of to implemented also mentioned in the ISO specs.
The subs in digital are max+10db above the stage
In a roomthat large a 3 way system would probably be best such as EAW or JBL in a baffle

The baffle does not have to extend the whole area behind the screen if flown and there are several companies that make add onm Baffeletes

Hope that helps

Posted by Nicholas McRobert (Member # 205) on 12-04-1999, 07:51 PM:

When one of the newer cinema chains opened their first major multiplex here, they had all the theaters THX-certified. The Company's own engineers (with many years of experience) EQ'd the Dolby setups in all of the theaters and were more than satisfied with the result, as were the preview audiences who had been drafted in from various other sites.....the sound was apparantly the best anyone had ever heard. As mentioned before in this topic, the THX engineers flew over (some 5000 miles) re-set everything so that it sounded more like bad Ultra-Stereo, complained that several of the doors needed to be "better soundproofed" or something, and promptly left. I honestly don't think that THX holds any value these days other than to line the pockets of Georgie Lucas. Besides, he is more interested in Digital now.....THX has probably been handed over to ex-AMC booth staff to save money.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-04-1999, 08:14 PM:

Toronto has probably the highest density of THX theatres anywhere considering Famous Players is moving to an all THX policy
And almost all sound great One thing that mightr be forgotten is before the engineer leaves and If you are unsatisified with there work make them correct it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-04-1999, 08:43 PM:

Definitely! If the "THX engineer" comes out with his R2, sets up, calibrates, and leaves...there's really something wrong. B-chaining always requires listening and in most cases fine tweeking by ear to get truly great sound. Besides, depending on the size of the auditorium and the acoustics will determine the slope of the rolloff. Plus the speakers utilized and placement will affect just how flat the final eq should be on the analyzer to get a good overall sound. Being able to distinguish the frequency of an offending frequency is extremely important. If a sound engineer can't do that, then he'll never have any really outstanding auditoriums.

Also, might I add the continuing problem of people "over-eqing"! Show me an auditorium that has a perfectly flat line on the RTA and I'll show you an auditorium that sounds bad. Cutting frequencies should be done as needed but boosting frequencies should be reserved for when absolutely necessary.

One last point, a "digital" eq does not really mean frequencies are perfectly limited to that control. There is leakage same as is in analog eq cards. I've seen B-chains where the controls were up and down and up and down and up and down. Needless to say the sound was less than adequate. I see this happen all the time on SDDS machines in particular "because it's a digital eq, blah, blah, blah..."

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-1999, 12:55 PM:

On the issue of EQ'ing a room many people forget the standard THX adheres to is +2 db to -3db so it should have hills and valleys with in that range not a flat line