The worst projector EVER is the Christie 35mm. It was designed to be
"maitenence free" but in reality requires more maintenence than any other
projector that I have ever seen. First off are the belts. They don't last too long and
are finicky and unreliable. They also shed immensely and the shutter belt loves to
break. perfect belt tension is always difficult to achieve and varies from projector
to projector. Then there is the Ultramittent which really isn't very ultra at all. The
picture is never steady and is always moving around somehow, even with a brand
new intermittent. They can also become so noisy that you can hear them chattering
away inside the auditorium during the movie. Chrsitie says this is "Normal and no
cause for concern". Yeah right!

Then there is the lens turret. This also helps with the image unsteadiness. Simply
opening and closing the lens turret to thread can knock the lenses out of alignment,
and when the movie starts the image is way too high or low. Only cycling a lens
change or messing with the manual toggle is this fixed. Of course, let's not forget
the Christie Dolby Digital basement reader. It is pure crap. It would work fine if
the projector itself did not cause so much vibration!!! Christie will not admit that
this is a problem, just that they require a bit more tweeking. I have also been told
by Christie that the LED's drift over time, and I must constantly check and
increase their voltage. What good are LEDs if they drift down like exciter bulbs? I
think Christie is just using this as a lame excuse to cover up the real problem with
their basement reader--the projector itself and it's poor design! Christie must have
the worst designers in the world!

For all of the troubled projectionists out there cursed with Christie P35GP
projectors and basement readers, there is a fix for the vibration problem, but it is
not too pretty. Fortunately, it is extremely simple. Just get a bunch of napkins.
Thread the film normally with just 1 perf of tenion on the sound drum. Now take
the napkins and fold them up and tape them so that they remain folded. They must
be pretty thick---thick enough to pad the arms of the sound drum. Now take 1
foled napkin an slide it between the lower arm of the sound drum and the reader.
Do the same with another folded napkin. This way the arms are padded from the
vibration and the show should run perfectly provided that everything else is set up
correctly. You may see some slack in the film going into the sound drum, but that
is OK. Maybe all Christie projectors from now on should ship with a box of
napkins.

What is your favorite/least favorite projector?
 

The worst? Oh there are so many...only one??? Ballantyne comes to mind. But
then so does the early Simplex units.

Currently there are four main projectors on the market to choose from. Century,
Simplex, Christie, Cinemecannica. Obviously there are others, but these are the
four you will see everywhere. If you are speaking "worst for all time" then I am
really going to have to think about that! But if you are speaking "worst currently
readily available" then may I strongly agree with you on your views toward the
Christie machine.

This machine has such great intentions and could've been a fantastic piece of
machinery. Unfortunately, it is a piece of...

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Christie...just their projectors. Christie
makes the best platters and the best projectors money can buy! Unfortunately,
they must've run out of money in the R & D stage when they were designing the
P35GP.

My biggest beef with the Christie is the shaky image. These units shake so bad, it
actually blurs the image on screen. Is it the gate/trap design? Perhaps it is the
physical vibrations of the machine itself. Who knows? Christie sure doesn't. And
no, changing the gate bands does not help.

My other big beef is the constant maintenance these machines require. No matter
how good a deal the initial cost is, you will spend far more money on the upkeep
than if you went all out for a Century JJ in the first place.

If you look at the new theaters being built today, you will typically see an "all
Strong package" or an "all Christie package." I've come to the conclusion that
Christie must throw in these projectors free with the purchase of the lamphouse
and platter. After all, they'll make their money back on parts.

And that's my two cents worth.
 

The 5th paragraph should read "Christie makes the best platters and lamphouses
money can buy."

Crediting them to making the best projectors money can buy was a tremendous
error.
 

Also, thank you for complimenting Mann Theatres. I do not work for the Chinese
in Cali, but it is good to hear praise where praise is due.
 

35MM Worst Projectors:
Ballantyne Pro-35 (couldn't project a steady picture or hold focus if life depended
on it)
Christie Gearless (should be called WORTHLESS)

16mm Best Projectors:
B&H 567 Arc Lamp with easy CHANGEOVER SYSTEM
B&H JAN Xenon Conversion
B&H 140 Carbon Arc
RCA Port-o-Arc
Eastman model 25

16mm Worst Projectors:
Graflex 16 (muddy sound)
Eiki (too flimsy and picture unsteady)
Ampro (too heavy!)
 

You forgot Norelco AA2 on the "Best" projector list.

Christie "Worthless." I like that! I think I'll paint that on my Christies I work
with!!!
 

Most of the problems people seem to have had with the Christie projectors was in fact that exhaust blower in their lamphouse. After Sean James of Christie recommended I remove them, 90% of my problems went away and soon after mentioning that on the forum, I got many emails from people who did the same and most of their problems were gone as well.

I will however stand behind my Centurys as the best all around projector. Norelcos and Simplexes are also excellent, but Norelcos are too damn big and too expensive to service (in that occasional instance when they need it) and Simplexes have that roller in the soundhead which embedds dirt into the emulsion and are generally rougher on film. For size, cost, ease and cost of maintenance and frequency of maintenance required...the Century keeps winning out. But that's another thread.

As to the Christie lamps and platters...they can NOT be beat in my opinion.
 

From what I have seen of Christie projectors, my opinion is that they are the Spawn of Satan....sent only to reap havoc and destruction on our industry. But then, they are cheap, and that's what the big chains want (especially American ones at that)....spend $$$$'s on rocking chairs/big popcorn machines and pennies on projection gear. Most cinemas here in the UK seem to favor Kinoton, Cinemecannica and Strong/Century machines. Christie aren't really up there.....yet! (thank God!)

Nicholas
 

Nicholas.
 

The only thing that annoys me is those little thumbscrews on the gate seem to like to jump off, roll a couple miles around the booth, then get lost under a piece of equipment. One time I had one drop through the hole in the floor where the DC leads come up from the rectifier! (see the closeup in the Byrd pictures in the gallery!)

I have started to get up a collection of 16 gear at home, and I can say the worst 16 portable ever built has to be the Singer 1100 slot loads. I have had pretty good luck with my 1552, and my 2592 running some pretty trashed films without missing a frame at all. The only annoying thing about B&H autoloads is that the autoloader does not like to release if the projector hasn't been used for a while. It supposed to release when the take up reel puts tension on the film, but sometimes sticks, and has to be released by hand. I have an EiKi 6100 up in the booth, and have used it a few times for shows, and viewing my own personal collection It takes a little while to load, but that's the drawback to a manual loader. The advantage is that this machine is pretty gentle on the film. I have a hard time telling it from the 35mm when a good print is loaded up! The only problem is that this machine doesn't look like it would be up to daily service, the mechanicals just don't look beefy enough!

 

By the way, before anyone tries removing a blower, you should NOT remove the one that sits on top of the negative end of the lamp blowing down. I'm speaking of the one mounted at the front, top that blows air upward into the stack. The lamp blower can be cushioned to prevent shaking as is explained in "Christie P35GP tips" on the front page of this site.

Granted, brand new and in perfect condition, these blowers don't cause problems...but once they collect a bit of dust and get just a hair off balance, the shaking will begin. Also, these blowers are an "accessory" and are not shipped with all Christie consoles, so perhaps David is not receiving these blowers in the first place.

I've never personally ran anything Kinotone, but I do hear they make excellent equipment. I'd be interested in their platters and their projectors, although I can't imagine their platters being better than Christie's AW3 or Century projectors.
 

I have one Christie P35GPS projector that I spent an entire night cleaning out all of the gears, pulleys, and just about everything else, including each individual notch in each gear. I installed new belts (always replace all of the belts at the same time) and put a little Panef belt dressing on them. To this day the projector runs extremely smooth and the Dolby Digital error rate is down to the low teens! (Actually reads about 3 to 4, which is perfectly fine). Picture is remarkable when the labs print them correctly. Belts have not begun to shed yet (it's been about 3 months or so).

Now I have 15 more to do like this! AAAhhhhh! I just don't have the time. I would if I didn't have to run movies as well. Running movies always gets in the way for me.
 

-Mike
 

Anyway, no it's not the 2383 flutter. I know exactly what you're talking about, but I only experience that if I run a print without FilmGuard. One pass through FilmGuard and that flutter's a thing of the past. I'm talking about actual vibration from the lamphouse. It is easily felt on the projector and turret. Generally it has a pulsing to it that is unmistakable. Be happy it hasn't happened to you yet. Hopefully Christie will find a fix to that problem, as it is the only real flaw in the SLC console.

What company do you work for?
 

Trust me on this one.....if you ever get the chance, try a Kinoton platter! The guys at the Christie-equipped theater in the next town are jealous as hell
 

I can generally get both the 35 and 70mm pictures as steady or steadier than any other projector. The 35mm optical head is also one of the best designs. The mag head is only of its only weak points...both stabilizers are the same size and will cause some flutter. Also making the mag head a 10-track presumes the 6-track and 4-track sections will wear out at the same time...I don't know anyone that has had these since the 4-track days that doesn't have spent 6-track sections with good 4-track sections. Oh and despite claims to the contrary, the AA2 is supported by Kinoton and wearables are available...the difference is that you almost NEVER need any parts for it except tension bands and sprockets.

The current generation Kinoton 16, 35 and 70mm projectors and allied equipment will pretty much embarass other projectors in the quality of picture department (and basement readers too...generally they get penthouse performance)

The Century projector is a cement mixer, they always run but hardly the best of design. Mechanically they are flawed in that the vertical shaft must be precisely aligned at 3 points and Century never had the machining to pull it off. Fortunately, the gearing is crude so the slop isn't so bad (again it is a cement mixer). The weak points on the machine (gear side)the main drive, intermittent drive and shutter drive. The driving gears have a bad gear ratio to their driven gears. (Ever notice that the sprocket gears almost never go bad?)The grease application system is also kinda wanting since it depends on regular attention and inherently wants to sling the grease off. Having the main drive gear hidden doesn't help things much.

Are they easy to fix? Sure! A screw driver and a adjustable wrench can do a whole bunch on the machine. The problem is, you often have to. Sure there are a lot of 40-50 year Centurys still out there doing the job day in and day out but none of those oldies are still running on their original gears (save maybe their sprocket gears)

On the film side things are much better. They generally never really got their projector head to line up very well with their soundheads (mag or optical)though. The trap is a heat sucker with no heat shielding. The lens alignment is also rather crude and on the single lens units the option is to have the lens receiver rock or not be able to focus due to its upper lens guide. On the plus side, being able to rock the lens allows for perfect centering when going between formats if the projectors are off center to the screen.

Overall though, the Century does put out a good picture that can be decently steady. It's shutter design (bow-tie) isn't as light efficient as others. To counter this Century has the double-dissolving shutter option that will get you a measurable (and viewable improvement) though it induces a hot-spot and is one more thing to wear out. When double-shutter GR-207 gears start to wear, the light will look like it is flickering though is it the bounce of the two shutters in relation to each other.

I have found the JJ's 35mm gate design to put out steadier pictures than the SA's gate design.

Simplex (XL/35) is, in my opinion, the best of the American projectors. The mechanical design is excellent thoughout. Like Century, there are XLs from the 1949 (first year of production, I believe) still going but unlike Century, a well oiled one is often running on its original gears (or at least the bulk of them are original). The larger sprockets are gentle on the film. The laterial guide roller is a bit flawed in that the heat treating process often induces a warp that can show up as a VERY slow weave on screen as it rotates about. Having to bend the gate tang about to get good intermittent shoe alignment is a bit crude too. Stong has "fixed" that now ny having the intermittent shoe now adjustable.

Like the projector, the Simplex 4-star soundhead can generally be made to run for ever (the gear box one) though there is often debates on the best oil to be used in it (hint, thicker than SAE 30). The loose loop design is better than Century's tight loop design but Simplex blew it when they put a contact part smack dab in the middle of the picture area and on the emulsion side! The current "5-Star" soundhead suffers from the same affliction and has the trendy belt drive problems that other soundheads have.

Take a 4-star soundhead and switch the pinch roller and impedance drum over to the AA2 style and you would have a great soundhead that would last forever.

Both Century and Simplex having projector heads that are still in production since the late 40s/early 50s that are essentually unchanged says alot about them and that cleary a lot of people like both.

Steve

------------------
"Old Projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

I have to give the worst I've worked with to the Simplex E-7 - although it has it's redeeming qualities - particularly it's durability.

We're running two 1936 E-7's and they're still going strong. They don't have the most stable picture, and use a LOT of oil, but they still work every show!

Long live the XL, though, especially when equipped with the slotted shutter fan to allow more light for 3D.
 

Yeah, the Oblique is a real pain.

We found a few replacements around the country, but the supply is pretty low...
 

Wally

------------------

 

------------------

 

I'm new at the Forum (but old in the booth) and would like to shout it to anyone, who cares:
The Philips DP70 (AA2) is without doubt the king - sloppy dowsers or not, and in spite of what dealers of new projectors try to tell You, those nice people at Kinoton in Münich still can provide You with almost any bit part You need --but how often did You need anything...?
Bought my pair of DP's late 1974 - at that time they've been running for 12 years and in store for 2. Now they've been running 26 years for me 4-5 shows a day and still, every day in that booth is a pleasure !
Only complaint - there is no more real stuff around to run. Ran "Baraka" and "Out of Africa" last summer, -and that's all the prints left i little Denmark. -Well, -there is a 70mm "Hook", so thorn and worn, You'd better forget it... - but it sure did sound good, some years ago !

Before i got my own place, i have been running lot's of other projectors, the better ones being:
35/70:
Bauer U2 - far from being a DP, but a fair try. Just so darn clumsy: no room for fat fingers as on DP70, and the whole projector had to be taken apart, no matter how small a repair, you had to do. -Running godd, though.
Bauer U3 - not in any way that baddie, some people claims, allthough not Your best friend, when running worn 70mm prints...
(8 stops in one "South Pacific" show, -Yak!)
35 only:
Bauer B5, B11 and B14 (never tried the B12
:-( ) - fine germans. -Once bought a pair of B11's, but never had them in use yet. -Has anyone ever made "red light" for these ?
Westrex "Westar" 2000 ft, 4-track mag, 2500 watt Zeiss lamps and rock-steady on 45 feet scope - really liked those !

Bad guy's:
Victoria 4, 5, 8 and 9 (- got a V9 on 39 seats, 10 feet scope - that's acceptable, but screen any bigger that that - no way !)
Once tried a pair of V10's for some few weeks - nice steady 70mm picture - but we did not become friends at all.

Have just heard about possible 70DTS reissue of 2001. -My platter runs only 35, and DTS in house is also for 35 only. -Has anyone good or bad experience running DTS70 without backup - or DTS70 change-over ??
Either i will have to replace ST200 platter with ST270 or to buy 2 (or maybe 4) timecode readers - maybe even an extra DTS unit. Big expense for one film only...? (Only other try would be "Titanic" - and that one out for the third time, i don't belive pays the bills...) Please advise...!

BTW: (ok, -start laughing) Those DP70's are serving 104 seats, 15 feet screen - booth allowing nothing (in 1974) but Cinemec CX900 lamps - and no more's needed. CP 65 with MPU-1, DTS-6 and SR*D/Ex. 4.500 inhabitants,
33.-34.000 adm.'s a year, and i'm having the day off every midsummer's eve, christmas eve and new years eve and feel good about it, due to those two heavy old-timers.
Yep ! - Se You around...

Per
 

------------------
It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady
 

The Kinoton Platter is without doubt the best in the 10 brands I have used, rock solid, reliable and they got an Oscar for it! No other plate comes close.

DP70 is up there (best on 70mm) and I like Bauer U3 (best on 35mm).

I cannot think of a projector I have completely disliked, although I would not jump to a Kallee 21 again, I hated having to stop for a ratio change!

Christie are a clever machine, but have the most abrasive gate area known to man and the reliabilty is a shocker. One 20-plex, 12 months, 5 dead ultramittants - fact! Easy to change, they need to be!!!

David
 

The main difference is that the Kinotons have a complex system of relays and transformers for determining the speed of the feed platter. A horizontal tension arm determines the speed of the take-up plate, and the feed plate starts at this speed. There are two microswitches for 'slow down' and 'speed up' in the centre feed unit, and so when the arm hits on or the other the speed of the plate gradually adjusts. This is instead of the variable resistor found in most other platters.

As I say, when it works it's fine, and one thing I will say for Kinotons is that they feed a lot more smoothly at slower speeds (e.g. during the last reel of TITANIC). But if one of these relays, gears or inverters goes wrong, it's hell to fix compared to simply changing a resistor. The service manual is inaccurate, inconsistently labelled and written in bad German. And the price of spares for Kinoton/Philips stuff defies belief. I once had to pay £246 (well over US$300) for an intermittent shaft for an FP-20. That's right - £246 for a bit of aluminium about the size of a pencil.

Favourite projectors - Philips/Kinoton DP-70 (the only 35/70mm convertible I know which gives a rock-steady picture in both gauges), Gaumont-Kalee GK-37. Worst - Cinemecannica Victoria 5 (the rubber band machine), Westar 7000.

L
 

I am wondering why I am not seeing more Kinoton projector installations here in the US. From what I have heard second hand, they are cheaper than the Christie P35GPS. Since cheaper is always better in the eyes of the corporate people, you'd think the big chains would gobble them up! Does anyone have a good comparison chart for the average prices on various projectors?

I would have to disagree that this theatre is highly overrated. I've seen many excellent projected images at this theatre. The only bad experience I've had lately was for Bringing out the dead last October(dim, out of focus), but The Perfect Storm looked great.
 

A month later, the experience was equaled in Dallas at the GCC North Park with Ron Beardmore as the projectionist.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
 

Accoustics are better at the Village, Picture is better too, but smaller.
Loews Cineplex Century Plaza (aka Cineplex Odeon, aka the Plitt) Has great sound, but is weak on subwoofer, add a few sub cabinets (as I did for a press screening of "Enemy of the State") and It sounds great. Tony Scott (the director) told me so himself.
Whomever said the accoustics were good at the Cinerama Dome was joking, right?
When Disney premiered 'Evita' there they went to the trouble of putting in a flat screen and a drop ceiling to make it look and sound like a real theater, and not an accoustics experiment.

Speaking of Norelco AAIIs The Egyptian in Hollywood has a pair of the cleanest nicest you will ever see. They were removed from a theater in New Orleans, I believe, and completely refurbished (down to the bare casing) by Boston Light and Sound. They literally look brand new. The booth also has a Kinoton FP38 35/16mm electronic movement projector.
 

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
 

I take it you were impressed with the 70 mm presentation???

I agree that 70 mm blow-ups from 35 mm are great, and sorely missed. But for the "WOW" factor, nothing today beats 65 mm origination and 70 mm prints. 30 fps is a bonus. Mike Todd had it RIGHT 45 years ago! Bless his soul.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
 

Here is another one for all Best and Brightest lamphouse I ran Perrless mod 15's at a drive in and would like to find another pair we ran at 200 amps with no reflector I'll let you think about that one
 

-Aaron