Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Chrishittie projector tips

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-15-1999, 01:51 PM:

Here's a new one guys. After testing very carefully, I have found the P35GPs to have a steadier picture when the intermittent (framing) is raised closest to the gate. The higher they are, the steadier the picture. Apparently, that tremendous amount of "space" between the gate and intermittent sprocket develops slack in the film and appears as a vertical unsteadiness.

Here's the bad part. Raising the intermittent as high as possible will create an oddball size loop that will slap violently and run LOOOOUD! ...but the picture is more steady.

Who else has any more observations/tips?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-15-1999, 05:29 PM:

I tried that trick awhile ago and I remember getting worse results than when the framing knob was centered. We have the basement style Dolby Digital readers built in to our projectors and the error rate is much worse this way, indicating more vibration. There should be a better way to get a steadier picture and also be able to leave the intermittent in the correct position. The key words there are "SHOULD BE", but that doesn't mean that htere is with these things!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-15-1999, 08:31 PM:

Upon close inspection, I could actually see a "bulge" bouncing in and out between the gate and intermittent. That is what prompted me to try it. It does help, but the projector STILL won't meet SMPTE specs.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 06-16-1999, 10:11 AM:

I was working with the Brand new Christie P35GPS and they seemed to run quite steady and not too loud. Almost quieter than the Century Heads. Maybe all this will happen once they get broken in?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-16-1999, 11:30 AM:

This is very odd indeed, Paul. I have the P35GPS and each individual projector (we have 16) has it's own set of problems. We have 2 or 3 of them that have a shakey picture, whereas the rest of them do not. We have 12 Dolby Digital basement readers in these things, and 4 of them track perfect 0's and 1's much of the time, whereas the others will hold a perfect 'F' and still not drop out of digital (sounds awful, though). Some of the lamphouses buzz loudly, most do not. They are all unique. You must have gotten a lucky batch. There certainly isn't much in the way of scientific design when it comes to the Chrisite projector. I guess it depends on if Bob was working on the assembly line that day or Bevan! You never know with Christie.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 07-10-1999, 06:10 AM:

Well, it appears that the Christie projectors were made out of about 1000 melted down beer cans... Of course, they were drinking th ebeer as they were desiging the projector...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-10-1999, 04:11 PM:

At first I laughed at your coments, Jim. but then I realized that it is probably TRUE!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-11-1999, 02:21 PM:

Well, the new thing on two of our P35GPOS machines is horrible random lateral shaking! This only is happening on Fuji prints.

Everything in the gate is perfectly aligned, and when I swap the entire gate assemblies with another projector, the problem does NOT follow the gate! Any ideas? I'm out.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-12-1999, 01:27 AM:

Brad, I know exactly what you are talking about! And it pisses me off! I don't think it is a good idea to have 2 sets of lateral guide rollers. I even see this horizontal shifting running RP40 and it is not just at the splice in the loop. Add this to the uncontrollable picture bouncing and you have one of the worst projected onscreen images in the industry. Has anybody ever cracked open and "Ultra"mittent? Doing so would seem to be the only cure for the picture bounce.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 07-12-1999, 02:45 AM:

If you open one of their "Ultra"mittent, they void your warrenty... My theory is that the design flaws in there are even more laughable that the rest of the projector...

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-13-1999, 10:20 AM:

I was lucky enough to get a couple of P35C Christies for a song. They are set up just off my living room and the picture is steady as can be. They are reliable and easy to work on and with. I know they are "projectors lite," but they sure work for me.

It is too bad that certain folks can't see past their prejudices. One man's beer cans are made into Christies and anothers made into Centurys. Whatever works, works.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-1999, 11:26 AM:

Jim,

How old are your machines? The older Christies were actually pretty darned good. What most people are complaining about on this forum is their current line of "goods".

I've ran the geared versions of their P35 and they were very nice. I also ran one of the first gearless machines for a demo (6 months) and the picture was as steady as our Simplex XLs. About 5 years ago I installed a set of them at a 10 screen and those are still running smooth today. HOWEVER, anything much newer than 5 years seem to be junk. I haven't been following Christie's changes "too" closely, but I do know that theater 5 years ago had the older style sounddrum where the edges were raised (so the picture didn't touch the drum) and the newer ones have a sounddrum like the Centurys. (Personally I always liked the idea of the picture not coming into contact with the drum.) I can't honestly say if you have the older style sounddrum if that is a good machine or not, because I don't know when the date was they #1 changed over to the new drum and #2 when they turned to crap.

I would be very interested to know how old your machines are (from manufacture, not when you purchased them), which type of sound drum it has, if they are indeed the "gearless" type and if you run collector's prints on them (mostly being triacetate prints) or if yours are in a public theater running polyestar shows daily. The current Christies run triacetate pretty well, but polyestar on them is a joke. Also, what make/model lamphouse (or a pedestal) is this mounted to? One engineer told me once that a current Christie projector will perform decently on a different brand of lamphouse as it had something to do with the actual mount on the Christie console that was weak. I don't know as I've never tried.

Again, the complaints here are on their machines you could call and order right off the assembly line today.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-1999, 05:39 PM:

The older Christies, like those found in UA's old corporate screening rooms, ran pretty well. Jims projectors are of the EXACT same vintage. We did have one problem with one of the screening room projectors at UA, however. We usually ran film on projector 2 and changed over to projector one and projector one's take up was bad and would end up mangling the film. That was fixed. If I remember correctly, they were straight gate projectors. I could be a bit fuzzy on this. The gate opened sideways instead of upward. I don't remember any picture shaking. But Brad is right. The newer machines are crap. They don't really work.

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-13-1999, 06:55 PM:

Not only are my Christies the same vintage as the UA screening room machines, they ARE the old UA screening room machines. A Stanley, who will go further unmentioned here, made the new owners an offer they couldn't refuse and I was the beneficiary of the deal. They are close to 15 years old out of the factory and when I got them in January 1996, one had 101 hours on it and the other 124 on the ORC-1000's. I was told that the hours were indeed the actual hours on them. These suckers are still tight!

They have the raised edge sounddrums, so nowhere does the image surface come into contact with anything except film. They are belt drives and I use them only at home [all our Telluride Film Festival theatres, seven in all, run Centurys (3) and Brenkerts (4)(!!!)]. Now these don't have the motorized turret or aperture, which is just fine.

The Cristies have custom bases setup for 5000-6000' reels and used to have the film come over the top on rollers that made the film take two 90° turns. This was too much torque on a number of old glue splices so I put some Simplex reel arms on for a straight film shot to the takeup reel. (Joe, the takeup is no longer a mangle problem.)

Most of the film I run is acetate and some goes back close to 50 years. I have some new poly stuff but except for the sound of it going thru the gate, it seems to run just fine. I ran a poly British release print of 12 Monkeys the other night and had no problem.

When the machines were first described to me I was skeptical, but having run them for over three years, they are the perfect home projector. BTW, does anyone know where I can get a parts and operating manual on the heads?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-1999, 07:14 PM:

Aha! They are the OLDER projectors when Christie was a good name! I figured as much. Consider yourself very lucky, Jim. I always liked the older machines.

Do you want the regular manual or the over-an-inch-thick-"Bible" manual? If there is enough interest, I will see about scanning that sucker in and making it available. The regular manual Christie provides isn't worth the paper it is printed on. There is hardly any part numbers or anything in there at all.

If not, I can photocopy it for you. I don't know how I could survive without it...with all the constant servicing, ya know.

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 07-13-1999, 08:27 PM:

In my experience, as a general rule the Christie GP projectors are pretty much useless. However with in that, SOME tend to have decent (not great) properties on the screen. At my theatre (16 screens) we have about 3 that work fairly well, all the others run loudly, clattering Ultramittants belt noise etc, as well as the standard unsteady picture, as Brad had said earlier, alot seems to have to do with just who was on the assebmly line that day. Give me a Century any day, we have a JJ laying on its back under the platform for our largest house (such a sad sight) that's been canibalized for parts =(. Still working on talking the managers into letting us rebuild it.
Pictures comming soon.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-1999, 09:30 PM:

I know the history of your projectors, Jim (that's why I said EXACT) and I must say that you got the deal of the century on those things.
As far as chattering, noisy "Ultra"mittents go, they should be replaced if the picture is also unsteady, or if people in the auditorium are complaining about the noise (which can happen!) The belts should be replaced once a year. Belt tension should be at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, just as long as the belts do not slap when the motor is on. When you change the belts, be sure to clean every single pully, gear, and gear notch that the belt comes into contact with. Take your time to ensure that you get everything. When you get the new belts on, apply a small amount of "PANEF" belt dressing to each belt (including the shutter belt) and make sure it gets distrubuted evenly by turning the motor on for awhile right after you apply it. This will prevent premature wearing of the belts and also help stop the "belt shedding" to a point. Doing all of these things will also reduce overall projector vibration. For best results, clean the gears, pullys, notches, everything every 6 months.

Posted by Jim Bedford (Member # 4) on 07-15-1999, 02:14 PM:

Thanks for the info Joe. Where can I get belts and how do I specify what I need? Anyone got a parts list for a Christie P35C?

Brad, I'm not sure I want to ask you to scan or give up the book, I was just wondering if there was an extra one lying aroung in a 6 or 14 Christie booth somewhere. I know my machines are a bit out of date, and I know that makes them a better model as well.

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-22-2001, 07:27 PM:

Has anyone found any new methods for fixing the loveable old christies? I'm not expecting a coversion to Kinoton quality or anything, but the 10 that I have are pretty bad, with a few exceptions here and there.

I followed the threading guidelines in the Tips section and am going to sand down some of the platters tomorrow, but what else can I do to crank out decent performance from the P35GPS's?

------------------
Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-22-2001, 07:39 PM:

There are actually several good tips that Sean James from Christie has passed along and a few more that have been found elsewhere, but I haven't had the time at the moment to get pics and write out instructions yet. What kind of problems are you having?

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-23-2001, 04:49 AM:

The problems I'm having are basically the ones that people seem to hate Christie for:

Horribly unsteady picture
Very loud operation
Pad roller handles just popping off and throwing the roller out of alignment. Right now I just replace the roller.
Not very sharp focus. Not sure if thats christies fault. We have all schneider lenses, may I have bad eyes.
And the lower constant speed assembly (or the motor itself?) moves much more freely and quietly on some of the projectors than others. Is that just belts or an oddity?

I don't have dolby digital issues because I have penthouse readers, but then again maybe I do, since I've never seen anything below a steady 3 on new prints.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-23-2001, 05:09 AM:

Unsteady picture. Is this vertical unsteadiness or horizontal unsteadiness?

Loud operation. Check your loop sizes. This is generally the problem. See the "threading 101" under "tips".

Pad roller handles...many people I know put a drop of SuperGlue on them. The super quick and dirty fix is to cut yourself a tiny piece of masking tape and put it on the shaft, then replace the handle. (Tape won't even wrap around the shaft fully.) Sounds cheap, but it works and it works damn well.

Schneider makes excellent lenses. I had a horrible problem with focusing until I removed the exhaust fans in the lamphouse that exhausted the air directly to the outside. Of course in my situation there was enough air flow that they were not needed, so I cannot definitely tell you to do this. (The fans were out of balance and were literally shaking the entire console enough to blur the image.) Check with your engineer first before doing that. Not all lamphouses even come outfitted with them. Another possibility would be to put a cushion on the bulb blowers, as that also increased projected resolution. Pictures of this are in the "tips" section.

Assembly turning freely...generally this is the belts being tighter or looser. However, there is a tiny washer on the shaft with the enormous allan head screw that I see commonly getting lost. You "should" be able to crank that down tightly without seizing up the assembly. I see machines running all the time where someone took it apart to change belts, lost the part and then just decided to not tighten it down quite all the way, but enough for it to cause significant drag when turning the motor over by hand.

The projector should not mess with an SRD penthouse reader.

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-23-2001, 05:34 AM:

Vertical unsteadiness.

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure they all have blowers in the lamp houses. I'll talk to engeneering tomorrow about modifying them.

I follow your threading process almost exactly, except I havent had enough time to practice and gain speed on threading up. The noise is probably coming from the "ultra" mittent since I hear it when the motor is running without film. Someone asked if anyone had cracked one open. I figured I'd re-ask since 1.5 years has passed since.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-23-2001, 05:53 AM:

I know of nothing that can be done for the Ultramittent's "knocking". Some of them do, some of them don't. Perhaps someone on the forum has been inside of one of them. I never have.

Using FilmGuard will steady the vertical shaking. Even just wiping the edges of the print with it will improve the registration. There is no physical adjustment on the projector to combat that.

On the horizontal steadiness, Christie sells a little alignment tool which is worth gold for stopping the horizontal "weaving". I don't remember what the part number is, but get one!

Posted by Joe Ritter (Member # 804) on 04-23-2001, 09:21 AM:

Hi.
On the
christie Ultra-=mittent I have taken one apart. They seem much more "tinny" than some of the Simplex ones that I have had apart. My reason for taking one apart was it had quit and I thought it may have been out of oil. This was not the case however. There was a small burr on one point of the cross that i removed with an oil stone, I actualy don`t know wheather I made the burr myself when taking it apart or not I could see nothing that had caused it.
Down here in South NJ. you have to make do with what you have and try to repair what is available. Why is it that some of the Christie movements have provisions to oil them and some are sealed? I am a firm believer in oil for machines. I think that everyone that wants to work with projectors or any simmilar machine should start their education with "Oilcan 101". Some people may think that oil is messy but I know that machines like it. When you use to much oil, in most cases it will just run off, this is not always true but too little oil will definately "piss off" your favorite machine.
Thanks, from a newbie------Joe Ritter----

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-23-2001, 09:51 AM:

Guys,
We are about the only dealer outside of the factory that does Ultramittent rebuilds in our own shop.
The idea behind the Ultramittent is basically sound and a very similar thing was done in the Motiograph AA for years. There are however two problems that Christie/LaVezzi still needs to address with it. I have addressed these problems on other forums here in the past. Unfortunately Christie does not seem willing to address them. If they did, the Ultramittent would have far longer life. However it appears to me that they really don't care. GTS may indeed begin doing these mods ourselves if these improvements do not show up in a while.

The first is the fact that the outer cam bearing is not in the lube at all. And this bearing is subjected to a pretty harsh environment and load....all the belt gunk, humidity and condensation buildup that can possibly happen in a booth seems to accumulate in this bearing. Moving the outer cam bearing into the lube is a very simple thing to do. The shaft seal would then reside on the outside of the bearing as it does in a Pro 35 movement.

2. No lube is present in the outer star brearing either and this would be difficult to do. Unfortunately this outer bearing only has a crappy fibre shield on it and this allows lots of film dust to enter the bearing. Installing a beearing with a felt seal would easily extend this bearings life by 100 and not really add any unnecessary load on the movement. A rubber seal would be even better here but may add too much extra load on the cam pin.
Several good things have happened to the Ultramittent in the past couple of years though. First, the star is now webbed to make it stronger(as in the X-L) Both inner ball bearings have been replaced with bronze(or oilite) bushings eliminating this troublesome problem area. Its interesting that Motiograph did the same thing with the AA movement after they realized that ball bearings for the inner positions wouldn't cut it. These bushings should help extend life somewhat but there is still that troublesome outer cam bearing that WILL fail eventually, especially in high humidity, or dusty locations.

The cam pin(and cam and star dinemsions minus shafts) in the Ultramittent are the same in the Simplex X-L. This makes replacing the cam pin an easy thing to do if the movement is noisy during pull down. The only thing to be careful of here is to check the slots in the star as they may also be worn if the bad pin was let run too long. Worn slots may simply chew up the new pin in a short time period.
If anyone needs assistance with Ultramittents please feel free to contact us.
Mark @ GTS www.getgts.com
mark@getgts.com
801-485-5012 Phone

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-23-2001, 11:10 PM:

I checked the lamp houses today. They all already have 2" thick foam on the fans squished to 1". So the shaking I'm having is after that fix

I did a lot of lubricating and cleaning on everything else that rolls, and the sound seems to have cut down.
Mark: Is there a way to clean and oil the parts you mentioned being outside of the sealed oil system? And if so, where can I find a diagram of their location?

Brad: What is you're exhaust system like to not need the blower inside?

------------------
Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-25-2001, 05:35 PM:

Jonathan,
You can't oil the bearings at all. They are greased for life(Supposedly), remember the P35 is maintainance free(?). They can be opened up, cleaned in a ultrasonic cleaner, repacked and the shield replaced. This is commonly done with some aircraft bearings and re-cycled bearings. To do this you have to open the movement up, disassemble it, do the bearings and reassemble.
Do Not Oil Anything in the P35!
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-10-2001, 07:30 PM:

I had the opportunity to see some current Christie upgrades to the P-35-GPS and AW-3. It would be nice if anyone who has experience with the upgrades can post their opinions so that everyone can know what they are, and how they are performing. I'll start:

Change over conversion: I performed all these conversions at my old theater. They work fairly well but need occasional adjustment. These adjustments are a "feel" that I have a hard time explaining--'tis easier to show. --New douser blades that are supposed to resist warpage are now out, but I do not have any experience with these. But in any case, warped douser blades will have an adverse effect on the changeover system!

Heavier steel Jackshaft and Shuttershaft pullies are now out. They do not wear as quickly as the old light aluminum ones do. However, keeping the pullys clean, proper alignment and belt tension are critical for proper operation. Also keeping the belt and pulleys clean and freshly lubed with a few drops of belt dressing is also very important! Swapping the pulleys can be a bear because Christie Lock-Tighted the set screws! Jackshaft must be removed from projector when swapping pulleys because of clearance problems.

There is a new style of Jackshaft assembly out--I have no experience with it.

The projector drive motor now has a hinged bracket. I have no experience with it.

Has Christie solved the problems of gate hardware loosening up? They love Lock-Tight! I prefer proper self locking hardware, lock washers, safety wire, cotter keys, etc!

Christie also has a "brain-wrap" failsafe attached to the AW-3. How is it working?

There are now quasi "beefed up" center rings. How are they? The brand new platters I recently saw did not have the two different diameter center rings to allow for trailer changes.

The AW-3 also has some "improved" electronics. I have no experience with it-how is it?

Still no arc viewing port on the SLC consoles. Also, access pannels are still screwed on (I heard that they were going to hinge them all).

Same old current tap switch on the power supply that many people have reported having problems with. Just remember to adjust tap switch with power off so that you do not melt-n-weld the contacts!

This is all--for now!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-10-2001, 08:29 PM:

I've been playing with most of these upgrades and recent improvements and thus far I am very impressed with all of them. Christie is definitely working extra hard to correct anything that wasn't quite up to snuff on their products.

More to report later when I can sit down and thouroughly go through everything.

Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 08-10-2001, 10:12 PM:

Maybe it is because I haven't had that much experience with other projectors but I must say what are you guys talking about!? I have 20 of the damn projectors and don't have a problem except for the basement readers. I have heard you guys say plenty on the noise issue, ok, well then somebody get me a decibel reading so I can compare. Vertical unsteadiness is usually operator error, I have yet to find this a projector problem. As far as the ultramittents go I have not found these to be the source of any problem. The douser is the only thing that really nags me, especially on the 6,000 watt houses. For a little background info these were purchased three years ago with about 8,800 hours as the peak out of all the 20. I am a Cinemarker so of course we have the "Christie Package." Have I just not experienced anything better or am I fortunate?

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 08-11-2001, 12:46 AM:

Manuel,

Order some of the new douser plates. They work really well. I have
them installed on my 6K houses and have not warped yet. That and the
new douser lock work nicely.

Send me an email to 251 and I will give you the part number and other information to order the new plates.

Paul.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-11-2001, 06:32 PM:

quote:
Will Kutler -- The AW-3 also has some "improved" electronics. I have no experience with it-how is it?

I have done some of these conversions. It consists of a new speed sensor that contains an IRED instead of a green LED and a photo diode instead of a CdS cell. It dispenses with the "old" LED power supply board that needs adjusting all the time. There is a new board that replaces it which doesn't have the three adjustment pots. There is just a resistor in its place. Also, there is a new filter card which has a different pattern silk screened on it. Instead of a "gradient" of dots it has a series of tapering lines that are thick on one end and narrow to a point on the other.

Once you get these parts installed and working right, the timing/adjustments of the system are greatly simplified. Basically you set the top speed to 24/25 RPM and the "low speed" (20% on the payout plate) until the motor just begins to hum. From then on you don't have to worry about the cell drifting on you. Setting the resistance to 70K? is a thing of the past. You won't see the film wrapping around the brain on startup like you used to and the payout will be much smoother and more reliable.

Just remember: I said, "Once you get these parts installed and working right"...
You have to completely tear the platter apart to do it. You have to take all three decks off and remove the center "axles". The filter card needs to be replaced and the cell/sensor unit has to be replaced. This is where it gets funky. You'll have to carefully bend the bracket on the new "cell" to get it in the right position. Sometimes you can't get the thing to work on the low speed adjustment. If bending the bracket doesn't work you'll need to get a new motor control card(s).

I have one theatre (18 screens) where the platters came with these things installed. I have had the fewest platter problems out of this theatre in all the places I have with Christie platters. I have one theatre where I have completed all the conversions. (14 screens) About 90% of their platter problems just seemed to evaporate as soon as the work was completed correctly. I have two more theatres where I am about half way done with the conversions. The half of the platters that are converted have been having few, if any, problems. The ones that I haven't converted yet still have to be callibrated every so often.

I only have two complaints about them:

They can be a pain in the ass to do the conversions.
What took them so long to come out with this?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-11-2001, 06:42 PM:

Christie is using the Red LEDs again? Awesome. I hope

I like your second question, Randy. But as for the first, I'd glady do the conversion if the benefits were worth it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-11-2001, 06:47 PM:

Randy,

This is the only thing that Christie has come out with as an "improvement" to their line of projection equipment that I do not like. Take a closer look real carefully. The speed has a "bump" in it and is too sensitive at it's slowest setting. This will wreak havoc on a long movie (3 hour Costner-type) when you get toward the end. This could've been corrected by elongating the linear lines on the light filter at the darkest end. Also, those lines could've been done to a point where payout is a couple of RPM shy of what the takeup is capable of. This would've allowed the platter to be timed to a point where full throttle could've been just BARELY enough to spin at the start of the movie, thus allowing an even smoother operation over the rest of the speed's range. As it is, there is a good 10% or more amount of headroom upon startup, which is not needed and IMHO is a bad idea.

Also, the reason your film is not wrapping around the back side of the brain anymore with these is because the speed is running too high (again, my opinion). You can take one of the older un-modified platters and turn up the speed for the EXACT same effect...but that would be foolish.

Christie's been doing a great job lately with improvements, but this one's a stinker. Keep the old graduated filter and circuitry. Wait until they perfect this design before you continue to change them out. A thrown print is not worth it and this year hasn't brought us one of those yet for you to see what the effects are.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-11-2001, 07:12 PM:

Actually the increased speed maybe to accomodate european machines with fast starting 3phase drives. A lot of platters had problems keeping up with these machines

Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 08-12-2001, 02:15 AM:

Thanks Paul but I already have the numbers. However your post helps me a lot because I was told that no matter what plate you put in the 6,000 watt projector it will warp it. After seeing this with my own eyes after a few weeks I believed it, but if these dousers are that good then I will get them. Also, are there any new shutter assy. If a shutter belt goes out in the 6,000 watt house with the blade in the light path and you don't catch it in about 30 seconds, it looks like the T1000 paid you a visit.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-12-2001, 04:04 AM:

The new douser plates are indeed very durable. I don't know how they will stand up to a 6000 or 7000 watt console, but they do stand up very well in at least a 4500.

If the douser melting is really a problem, have your engineer wire the xenon circuit through the exciter relays on the automation and the exciter circuit through the xenon relays. That way when the douser would "normally" open and the "exciter" would turn on, what would really be happening is the xenon would ignite. Same goes for shutdown. (The exciter/led would of course turn on when the START button was pressed and turn off when the failsafes drop.) Doing this on some lamphouses requires cutting into the interlock failsafe circuit, but on an SLC you can just move two wires with most automations and voila...no more need for an electric douser!

The bean counters should be pleased with this as well, for they will never have to purchase another douser plate, changeover coils and pay for technician time to repair the darned things.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-12-2001, 10:22 AM:

I think I understand what you are saying Brad, but it sounds to me that all they have to do is modify the pattern silk screened onto the filter card, right?

When I put the first of these in, it was on a house that was playing Pearl Harbor. I chose that one because the print was getting thrown and I was sick and tired of having to retime the platter all the time. We'd get it perfect and it'd be wonky again in two weeks. (I assume it was because the cells were drifting?)

Like I said, I have one theatre where these were OEM and they rarely have problems. The one theatre where all of them are complete has had 90% of their problems just evaporate overnight. The two theatres where I'm 1/2 done have problems in the ones that aren't converted and virtually none in the ones that are.

I agree that there is still room for improvement but they are still better than the CdS cells.

BTW, Joe -- They are IrEDs. They are using a photo diode as a sensor now, instead of the solar cell, which only "sees" infra red... Which comes in handy because you can now test the thing with the cover off since white light doesn't affect them. You don't have to put the cover on to test it, only to have to take it off again when you have to go back and adjust something. Just don't go shining a flashlight directly on them because flashlights do emit infra red. (I found this out from experience. )

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-12-2001, 12:18 PM:

Yup, modifying the silk screening just a tad would make that modification a really good one. It's not far off and they're on the right track with what they have. It's just not quite perfect yet.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-12-2001, 01:09 PM:

So, Brad (or Randy): why not experiment with different filter patterns, until perfection is obtained, and then either begin making them yourself out of thin Plexiglas, or send the pattern to Bevan and let Christie do the honors? I was getting ready to jump for joy and then on to the phone with the dealer until I was hearing that the timing is still too wacky for long prints with sticky film

Aaron

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-12-2001, 01:14 PM:

I did play a couple of years ago with adding some electrical tape to the edge to shave off 2RPM's worth near the top edge of the filter's range, but it was too much work and took too much time to get it just right. This is something that needs to be done at a factory. I know nothing about silk screening. I'd be happy though to put any new designs to the full test and give the big thumbs up when perfection is obtained.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-12-2001, 06:15 PM:

What they need to do is make the filter out of glass and put a thin film of gold plating on so it forms a very smooth gradient, from completely transparent to completely opaque/reflective. You know, the way they make Serengetti Driver sunglasses.

Okay, so that'd be like shooting flies with a Howitzer and it'd be super duper expensive but my point is, if you want a perfectly smooth "power curve" you should do something like that. Not by using half-tone dots or tapered stripes.