Have any of you ever gone to a rock concert, and come away with your ears ringing, and feeling exausted?

Theaters seem to be worse, because the room is smaller than most concert stages, and the walls are treated with various kinds of sound proofing.

The new digital sound is pumping more volume than optical sound ever dreamed of, and running the same amount of output wattage.

Why is it that the sound level has to be totally screaming at you?

He is not an old fart complaining. He is a rock musician.

I've tested this theory on a theater viewing of "Die Hard." I saw it in a loud theater, and I fell asleep, which is something I dont do in a theater, normally. I rented it on VHS and ran it at home on my Hi-Fi system at a decent volume level, and I never once got tired.

So, on this note, what do you think? Are decibel levels relevant or not?

Have you ever put on headphones and blasted music (or whatever) for any length of time? I have, and it put me to sleep.

I think that there is too much emphasis on the sound quality, and not enough on the picture. Sometimes the lamp brightness is low, or blue-looking, etc. but the loudness is what I am talking about here.

Whatcha think, guys? Will this change anything, or should people just bring ear plugs?
 

Anyway, I don't agree that picture should be of greater concern than sound - in my opinion the two should be dealt with with equal attention. In my experience, if you are getting a high number of volume complaints from patrons, it could be one or all of three problems.

First, is the auditorium properly EQed? I cannot tell you how often I go to theatres where the levels are WAY off. The primary reason for this is because of "movable digital units". DTS's biggest selling point is that their units are movable. My advice from many years of blown speakers is -- DON'T!!! If you're going to move a digital unit, you need to reset the levels EVERYTIME! And you must have the proper equipment for this (sound level meter, DTS imperical test disc, ect.) I find that the best levels are: 85db for Right and Left, 84db for Center, 83db for both Surrounds, and 92db for Subs.

Second, the problem may be the movie's mix. I gotta tell ya, there are some terrible sound mixers out there, and most of them work for Jerry Bruckhiemer. Honestly, if you ever get one of his movies, TURN IT DOWN! Aramageddon gave me a blaring headache -- too much high end, and way too many sounds mixed in all at once. My ears can only take so much. So, this is why it is very important to screen movies before showing them to an audience, so that you can determine the best level to play them at. (Pleasantville, for example, needed to be played at 7.0) And, unfortunately this causes another problem, because too many projectionists I've met want to play movies too loud cause they think it's "cool" or something. But, truly, the customers rarely find it cool, nor do the techs when they have to replace blown tweeters. Watch your amps to make sure they are not clipping, and always keep the paying customers' eardrums in mind.

A third problem that we have to encounter reguarding sound is trailers. That's when customers complain the most about sound. Luckily, I work with an automation system that has volume change options, so I play trailers quite a bit quieter than the movie itself. But for those not blessed with the same equipment, the tendency is to turn the fader down during the trailers when the customers complain, then it never gets turned up again for the movie. I don't know a single UA theatre in my town that doesn't play their movies at 4.5 or lower. In my opinion that is as unnecessary as playing movies too loud. I know that monitoring fader levels in a multiplex is near impossible, but there are solutions. For example, check out the advice Brad has on this website - I think it's called "Battling loud trailers."

Anyway, I've rambled on enough (I could go on forever about this topic, but I won't)
 

Personally I must admit I think Bruce is correct here...with a few specifics.

How bright is that lamp? Crank it up over 18fl and you will fall asleep purely from the eye strain!

Is there enough low end in the system to take the harshness out of the sound? For some oddball reason, many engineers seem to think the low end should be rolled off just like the high end! This tends to make the sound unnecessarily harsh and the eardrums cannot handle the decibel levels without the low end's air pressure, resulting in a headache.

I'm by no means an expert, but I know what I've experienced. My personal (and medically unconfirmed) theory is the eardrums are similar to the eyes. When it is bright, the iris in your eyes close to protect them from the intense light. Consequently they open up when it is darker. I believe a similar thing happens with the ears. When there is a lot of bass in the sound, the ears "close up" to protect themselves. When there is a lack of bass (say from an engineer rolling off the bass to prevent bleedthrough in less than ideal installations), the ears "stay open" and basically get blasted. The end result is a headache and ringing.

But as always, don't take my word for it. Watch a movie one day when you're feeling good and alert on a good system which has been well calibrated. Then, go back on another day when you feel equally well and alert and watch the same film, but this time roll off the bass. (This can be accomplished by using the "bass" control on the cat64s in a Dolby processor and turning off the subwoofer amplifiers for the show.) Now run the film at exactly the same fader setting. You WILL have a headache in no time. Playing SR tracks through Dolby A decoders is a very similar effect.

I must also point out the lack of a good eq. The best system in the world will sound like absolute crap if it is not properly eq'd! This MUST be done with a multiplexer and real time analyzer. I prefer to cut to correct for acoustics and speakers rather than boost. Boosting frequencies tends to add a false sound to the system. Consequently, regardless of what people may say, the "digital" eqs found in SDDS and the CP500 must be eq'd in the same manner as analog eqs. Many people seem to be fooled into thinking they can crank one frequency and kill the next one without compromise. That practice will result in bad sound every time. No two adjacent frequencies should be very far from each other.

Before I stop blabbing here, I must also point out the need for actual listening in the auditorium during calibration. Many engineers simply eq a flat line with the standard high frequency rolloff and quit. This is great and all, but the final adjustments MUST be done by ear. Larger rooms require less treble and more bass while smaller rooms require more treble and less bass. Generally this can be accomplished purely by the course bass and treble controls on Dolby processors. Other processors do not have this and the eq process (to do it right) will take much longer.

One last thing, watch the 4K area! That seems to be the headache-central frequency sound mixers love to use. Anyone see "The Mummy"? I don't think it would've been possible for the mixers to crank the 2-8K frequencies up any more on that title! Personally I prefer to make a slight dip smoothly around those frequencies (not a lot, just a touch) as I feel it greatly improves the sound. Another area to watch out for is the 160-400hz area. Since many engineers tend to start the rolloff around 100hz or so, those frequencies will leave you with a jukebox-type sound, as if the sound is traveling through a tube. Slight rolloffs there (depending on the room) are many times advantageous.

Done properly, that same film which is killing the audience at 4.5 should be able to be ran well over 8.0 without headaches.

Oh yeah, we were talking about falling asleep. In reference to the sound, yes...but only on a good system.

 

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I should say our union projectionists at the Grand Lake take a lot of pride in their presentation and do ride the levels conscientiously. (They haven't yet become regular readers here -- despite my urging and printing out of the material for their perusal -- so I needn't worry about brown-nosing.)

I took my 2.5 year-old nephew to see "Muppets In Space" at his local monsterplex and he kept saying, "tooo loud" and three complaints at the snack bar (and resulting phone calls to the booth) yielded no relief. I know the pots will be set too high at one local monsterplex so I bring plugs.

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Kenn Fong
http://qwertyuiop.net
Screenwriter's Home Page
 

Another problem is horrible mixing. Take for instance the following scene from "Saving Private Ryan":
"whisper...whisper...BANG!...whisper...BOOM!...whisper...BOOM!...BANG!" I hope I quoted that scene accurately.

I have to agree whole heartedly with Scott. I am more interested in a good image than sound. My favorite director is Woody Allen, and all of his stuff is mono. I do enjoy good surround sound, but I'm sick of hearing people talk about it as if it is the whole experience. Picture without sound can be enjoyable, Charlie Chaplin comes to mind. But sound without image is nothing.
 

As far as I know, it's the only time we've had to replace a speaker due to excessive volume in our theater.
 

Personally, I thought the mix on The Matrix was by far the best this year (so far). What about everyone else?
 

As for dull films, I have been known to love films that smelled. Plan 9, Glen or Glenda? Many AIP, or most of todays films?

We just basically think that films are relying on wild sound mixing, and loud music to cover a weak story, or something to that effect. Give me simple 2-channel stereo. You get a neet phantom center channel.

The thing that started this was the fact that I was playing the sound too loud, and EQ'd poorly here on the home system. With a few adjustments, I saw the light. Heard it too.

Bruce
 

I don't see why we even have surround channels... In our theatre the most you'd be able to hear through them is for about 5mins in total through a 2hr movie.

As far as loudness goes, we keep a really good eye on it, we turn our analogue tracks up a tiny bit since they don't have the 'punch' DTS has.

3/6 of our theatres have DTS and we move the DTS units around a lot, I know we also don't re-eq after each one.

On another good note I'm being trained in the box office next week, my last step b4 projection! Sorry, I just had to tell someone

The auditorium holds almost 4000 people, and from the front of the balcony, one could not hear the speakers behind the screen because the surround system on the side walls, and behind were blasting an odd echo-ey sound. My folks were in town that weekend, and we all came away with good headaches. They didn't like the film until I ran a 16 print years later for them. I go there to see old classics that dont have major stereo. These always sound very good here. Its amazing how little power it takes for 5 amps to fill a 4000 seat theater with rich sound. Just forget surround.
 

I used to work at a theatre that actually used home pro-logic systems in two of it's houses. One house in particular had very warm and rich sound that I found quite pleasant. It was much more enjoyable than digital systems set up wrong or cranked to 11. There is a certain warmth in analogue sound that digital can't touch. But I do enjoy good digital sound.
 

Unfortunately, even if a building had all of one type of processor, I have found DTS levels still need to be tweeked. Granted, in many instances the levels were within a decibel...but that wouldn't be perfect, would it?

Also of interest is a test run of SRD pink noise loop. I have found sometimes the analog and digital does not exactly match up.

They way I see it, theaters should just be built with one of two options here. First, CP500s and SRD built in with a couple of floating DTS units and forget all the other nonsense. SRD is on every print (I'm not counting the SDDS-only "bomb" movies from Sony.) The CP500/SRD combo is extremely affordable and reliable, with a cat 701 penthouse reader. Another good option would be to install all CP65s with DTS in every house and have a couple of floating SRD units. My only beef with the CP65 is when hooked up to a DA20 will result in a the surround channels being too low in comparision with the analog settings.

I sense that the reason some people do not like digital sound is because they fear change. Change happens and it can suck. I know people who hate xenon bulbs and prefer carbon arcs. If they want to get lung cancer, then they can have their carbon arcs. If a theatre that you visit sounds "too loud", ask the management for the district managers phone number and call them. Don't tell them that the sound is too loud. Tell them it sounds really really bad and caused you some physical grief. It is obviously not set up correctly, or maybe they do not have the proper equipment to do so (amps, speakers, etc). Give them a few weeks and if they have not fixed the problem, do not visit that theatre ever again!
 

It has been 1941 days since the last post.