This is topic Be Glad This Wasn't You... in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 09-24-1999, 07:08 AM:
Saw a preview screening of AMERICAN BEAUTY this week at the new AMC Easton 30 in Columbus OH. This airplane hanger-like structure has a 30 screen theatre, a Planet Hollywood and an All-Star Cafe. A Spielberg GAMEWORKS is in the same building!Reels 2 & 3 were shown in the wrong order. We see a couple go to lunch, then we see them make the date. Just a few of the amazing things one sees when time is moved around. I sensed something was wrong when the sound at the end of reel 1 didn't match the sound at the start of the next reel. Once reel 3 ended and reel 2 started, it got VERY weird.
Most of the audience did not notice the problem. Even a friend of mine who is a professional critic didn't realize there was a problem until I mentioned it to him. He thought something seemed wrong, but just thought it was some trick of the storytelling.
Management did notice, and was handing out free passes at the door, apologizing profusely for the problem. The claim was that reels 2 & 3 were mislabled, the the print had arrived too late for a check screening.
This was one of the stranger things I've ever seen in a cinema. Fortunately, it happened early enough that the second half of the movie made sense. The manager told me his biggest fear was that another reel had been placed out of order, and the last reel wasn't in the place of reel 4.
I hope this doesn't happen to any of you!
Mark Lensenmayer
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 09-24-1999, 01:49 PM:
Sounds like a training accident. This happend to me a long time ago, and in a galaxy far, far away. And yes it is weird!
Don't believe the excusses the managment gave (unless, of course, Technicolor handled the print)! Again, Brad is right! A problem like this could have been avoided if the print was delivered on Wednesday night, and the folks in the booth had time to CHECK IT.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-24-1999, 03:48 PM:
Actually, I must admit that it DID happen to me a long time ago on the movie "Ready to Wear". I can't remember which reels were mixed up. All I know is that the movie was verified the first time by a fellow projectionist who was really looking forward to seeing that particular movie, and he didn't catch it. He was a fairly experienced guy, too. Then later one of the assistant managers decided that he wanted to see it before it opened, so he watched it the next night and did not notice it. It took nearly a week before a customer noticed.
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 09-24-1999, 06:22 PM:
We had this happen to us with Instinct, but we caught it during the screening. I can, however, buy the excuse of the print arriving too late to screen (it's is Technicolor's [print, after all). The moral of the story, however, is NEVER trust those cardboard bands. Always check the reel itself for it's number.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-24-1999, 07:46 PM:
Yup! We had a similar incident happen with Thomas Crown Affair (Technicolor depot, of course). The reels all were banded #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. However, the band labeled 4 was actually a second copy of 3!!! The print arrived late, as always and the duplicate reel almost wasn't caught. It was going to go straight on screen. Thankfully it was noticed on the rewind bench. ANOTHER reason NEVER to build straight on to the platter. Tails up always and Wednesday deliveries, please!
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 09-24-1999, 10:00 PM:
I don't know that early print delivery would make a difference at AMC. That would just give them more time to destroy the print 
Posted by Kelsey Black (Member # 126) on 09-24-1999, 11:51 PM:
okay, my turn to rant.
the first of these is about the management that operated the theater I currently run before my family took it over from them... as he was telling us one night before we made the official change over, they had a print of Mighty Ducks 3 that came in an hour before the first showtime, slapped it together, only to find out on SUNDAY NIGHT that the reel sequence was 1,4,2,3,5. they and apparently everyone (very few) who came to see it thought that it was just a series of flashbacks, etc. BTW, they ran only for the weekend, friday night, saturday matinee & night, Sunday matinee & night, and Monday night. (we cut out the sunday matinee as nobody showed up 70% of the time, and changed the monday night $1 off discount to the saturday afternoon matinee...)the second is really a horror story. literally. back when Technicolor was still delivering prints to us on Friday _afternoon_, we were opening Halloween H20. well, the dropoff window came and went, 2 hours to showtime.... calls to technicolor... 1 hour to showtime.... 45 mins to showtime, people showing up... the print arrives. I feel I need to include that this was back when I had been basically running the entire operation short of cash register and boxoffice for only 4 months, so I was freaked. anyways, I put the print together, and managed to even put previews on, rewind it (using 36" reels on a cinemeccanica dual tower) and start it just the moment that it finishes rewinding. (well, threaded up as well, of course) anyways...
previews... good, no bad splices... reel one almost done.... REEL 2! it's upside down and the soundtrack is on screen!!! house lights go up, and people stop laughing... (can you believe they actually found it hillarious???) so I got the rewind table, and took that reel off, rewound it, then noticed that the next reel (3) was also backwards... took it off... rewound it, and put the print back together. total elapsed time, 18 mins. yeesh!
of course, none of this would have had to happen if Tech. would have delivered on time, all the reels in the same direction (I prefer tail out... wonder why)
gol, I sure am gonna miss this place.
unfortunately, the technicolor scandal continues.....
ahh... that felt good to get off my chest.
Kelsey Black
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-25-1999, 12:50 AM:
I don't understand some of these "disasters." Even if you receive the print 30 minutes before show time, it only makes sense to check the reel numbers, head & tail marks, etc. on the fly to avoid the "wrong order/wrong direction" problem.(not that I'm claiming to be perfect...it's happened to me too!)
Mike
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-25-1999, 03:34 AM:
As far as rushed build-ups go, if the all of the reels are not facing the same direction, then it is possible to get a backwards reel into the program. I guess it all depends on who, where, and why. I personally look for the countdown on the head leader (but don't always trust it) and double check the first (or last) frame. Once you situate the image on the film so it is right side up, then the top of the image will always be facing towards the head.
Posted by Stephen Jones 1 (Member # 114) on 09-25-1999, 05:47 AM:
One of the first things I teach my projectionists when building up is to identify all the reels by looking for the word head or foot/tail on the film and verifying by looking at the first frame. It works very well as fortunately we haven't had a reel put on backwards at this theatre. Though, I remember when building up Rushmore that the last scene on reel 3 was through the eyes of the actor hanging upside down so the picture was upside down. Confused the hell out of the projectionist that night as he tried to figure out why both ends of the reel were "heads out." I've also seen it where the lab leaves on so much leader that the tail leader from the previous reel is left on the head leader for the next reel. So at first glance, you see tail leader and then you see head leader. Of course technicolor. Because of the late arrivals, I've actually run a print while the last three reels were being put on by the makeup table. That was weird. I also wonder what some people do when they build-up or breakdown a print. I recieved prints that have been spliced with paper tape, cut with a knife, shoe polish everywhere and hundreds of different cues placed everywhere. I had a lights go up and down 21 (that's how many I counted during the screening) because of cues left on by a previous theatre. We basically just flipped the light breaker after the movie. amazing
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-25-1999, 08:11 AM:
Yeah, Rushmore confused me, too. I was inspecting for changeover mark placement, and, for a few moments, I actually thought that someone might have spliced half of the reel in backwards (since the head of that reel was fine, and corresponded with the frame left on the leader).
Oh, "Brassed Off" gets another one of my awards for dumbest changeover mark placements--at one point, you see the motor cue, then a fadeout to black (between the two sets of cue marks) then another scene starts, then you see the second set of cues. Argh!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-25-1999, 12:02 PM:
Does anyone remember the little one weeker Sony picture last spring that was 5 reels long? I can't remember the name, but the movie did NO business. Anyway, reel 2 and 3 both started out with EXACTLY the same shot! At first, I thought Technicolor had sent me 2 copies of reel 2 and no reel 3 (they are known to do that)!
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-25-1999, 04:06 PM:
Sony sucks. Jakob's Ladder is in SDDS only. Do they really think that people will go out and buy SDDS units for movies like that?Anyway, on the movie called "East is East" (not yet released) instantly after the changeover cue hits the film cuts to a different 1 second scene, then the changeover happens, which is a another different scene. It looks horrible.
Posted by Christopher A Kerr (Member # 151) on 09-25-1999, 04:08 PM:
I hate late arrivals more than anything else, which is a real pain since I work at a second run theatre. We usually get our films straight from the first run theatre friday morning or VERY late thursday night after their last show. Some times, certain theatres will be nice and send us the print allready made up or on 2 6000' reels. A couple of theatres won't do this and since we like to pick up as soon as we can, they rush through the break down. I've gotten films in every possible different combination you can imagine. Tails up, heads up, heads/tails double spliced on, single spliced, attached with masking tape, scotch tape, even some just wrapped around, not even attached. Some guy even spliced the cardboard censor bands on to the end of the film one time.Last week I didn't get my print of The Iron Giant until 12:30 on Friday. We have been open Friday Matinees for the last 2 weeks, but since all my staff are students and Fridays are slow, I have been working by myself until I can hire new staff. I started to make up the print and at 5 to 1 no one had shown up so I figured I was in the clear. Two minutes to show time one customer showed up for the show. I sold him his ticket and explained that the show would be a few minutes late. With help from the owner we got the print assembled and started only 15 minutes late. This was only possible since the print had arrived in good shape, tails up and all in the proper order.
If any of you ever ship your prints straight to second run theatres, PLEASE make sure you ship them in a condition you would like to receive them. You will make me and every other second-run theatre projectionist a very happy man.
Cheers
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-25-1999, 04:42 PM:
Since my only jobs have been in second-run art houses, I can agree with all of your comments. I do think that it's pretty sad that probably 99% of the films that I handled left the theatre in better condition than they were when they arrived. I think this says a lot of bad things about the first-run houses...
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-29-1999, 11:47 PM:
I have actually had a couple of reels that the HEADS & TAILS of the print were mixed up. (NOT the bands) When my co-worker told me this I thought he was just pulling a bone-headed excuse on me but I checked and it was true! (I'll have to ask him which movie, I forget -- Ted, if you're lurking POST IT!)
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-10-1999, 03:54 PM:
Seems like I remember an Elvis picture that had a changeover in the middle of the opening credits... (maybe it wasn't Elvis, but it was around that time)Also during that time, it wasn't unusual to have a changeover in the middle of a song or music. "The Sons of Katie Elder" had one.
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-10-1999, 04:11 PM:
Didn't "Charlotte's Web" have several reel changes in odd places? Seems like I remember the first bar of a song on the end of R2, and the rest on R3? We ran Disney's "Robin Hood" that had a trumpet fanfare that started on one reel, and continued on the next.My print of "A Boy Named Charlie Brown" has a short R1, R2, R3. I joined R4, and 5, on one reel, and R6 is full. Kinda silly for an 85 minute movie.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-10-1999, 09:42 PM:
In the 1970 film "Elvis - That's The Way It Is", there was a changeover during a live performance (reel 3 to 4, if I recall). There was no sound at the beginning of reel 4. It was not until Elvis started shaking a defective mike that I realized our sound system hadn't failed. Some film editor, somewhere, had a vicious sense of humour.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-11-1999, 11:42 AM:
There are a bunch of films that have reel changes in the middle of a piece of music. Gone w/ the Wind and Vertigo come to mind, but there are others.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-11-1999, 01:42 PM:
I aways think of the tightest changeover is the end of reel one of the 70mm Sound Of Music
Reel 1 ends with Julie Andrews singing
"The hills are alive-" changeover to reel two "with the sound of music"
Considering the pull ups on 70mm mag that was always a close changeover
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-11-1999, 10:41 PM:
Got a print in just last Friday (yes, another used TES print...big surprise) and there were NO LEADERS! The show had to go on screen in less than an hour from receipt! The ends of the film were NOT taped down, creating a real mess of tangled film, and without labeling of any kind, this was one hell of a nasty print to build in a frenzy. In reel 2, there was a masking taped splice reversing the soundtrack followed later by another masking taped splice flipping the soundtrack back again. What would've happened if I had not've inspected this!?!?
Another reel featured a theater splice, out of frame. And all the while, what order was this thing supposed to be assembled?
I finally got the thing put together by visually reading the soundtracks and looking for a reasonable match. I can hardly believe I got the damn thing right and the show ran without a glitch, at the last possible second of course.
If ONLY the studios would charge FULL PRICE for this sort of nonsense, perhaps this would stop.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-11-1999, 11:33 PM:
You can actually read the dialogue from the soundtrack? Amazing. Please teach us how.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-11-1999, 11:37 PM:
Yes, can't everyone? I mean it's so easy. It helps to censor bad words too.Seriously, what I mean is by looking at the soundtrack closely, it isn't too hard to figure out what is dialogue and what is music and what is explosions and such. But for putting together a leader-less print, one only needs to find similar waves between heads and tails.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-12-1999, 12:16 AM:
Provided, of course, that one can simultaneously read the minds if the director and editor of the film.Admit it, Brad, you got lucky.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-12-1999, 01:35 AM:
Oh, c'mon Rick! Who hasn't read the soundtrack this way? I've watched entire movies like this! In some movies the dialog track is so bad that I can't understand what they are saying at all unless I physically look at the optical track. The Dolby Digital track is even easier to read. It doesn't leave anything to misinterpretation. But if you are groggy or anything like that, you will only get an error rate of 6-F at best.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-12-1999, 01:38 AM:
Oh yeah---almost forgot:
Don't try to read the SDDS track-- it's like reading a sentence with random missing letters and words.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-12-1999, 05:10 PM:
.sdrawkcab kcart eht dah I. eoJ ,thgir e'ruoY
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-21-1999, 05:34 PM:
Well, more misadventures at the AMC Planet Movies (Easton) 30. They had a special screening of TITUS, with the director Julie Taymor in attendance. About 50 minutes before the show, I saw some test film run through. Picture on the 60' screen was very good, BUT, there was no left channel sound. Center, right and split surrounds worked fine, no left. I was in the middle of the row, and didn't want to disturb those around me, so I just tolerated it. You would think that they would pay at least a little attention to the public premiere with the director there, but I guess not. Too bad this screening wasn't at the local Marcus operation, where I have never seen a poor presentation (other than a 35mm film on the Imax screen, which is a whole other story!)
It should be interesting to watch this facillity as things become clearer with Planet Hollywood...there is a Planet Hollywood AND an All-Star cafe in the same aircraft-hangar-like building as the AMC.
Oh, I forgot to check to see if they had installed the water fountains yet...they "forgot" them in the original plans.
Mark Lensenmayer
Columbus Ohio