This is topic Projection as a career? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Erich Loepke (Member # 166) on 09-30-1999, 02:36 PM:
With all the talk of digital "film" and low pay, is my thinking of starting out as a projectionist worthwhile these days? Should I expect to shovel popcorn between starting shows? I'm sure this has come up on this forum countless times, but what is the best way to get a start in this industry for someone like myself whose only experience with film is running 8mm and 16mm at home? Should I just walk in the local multiplex and see the manager? What can I expect from a money standpoint (please be honest!) I worked in the local theater about 10 years ago as a popcorn jockey. When I asked about working in the booth, I was told that it was nearly impossible for someone like me to get involved because of the union. You had to be an insider, I was told. Is this still true nowadays?
I'm really interested in the world of film and would like to learn to give a show free of the horror stories I've read on this and other film forums.
Thank you in advance for any advice.
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 09-30-1999, 05:31 PM:
There is a general shortage of GOOD projectionists everywhere, a lot have left the industry, mainly due to poor pay and bad working conditions, it is a sad fact in this part of the film indudustry that projectionists are poorly paid.My advice if you want to earn a good living and enjoy the job, try to work for some kind of Art House cinema that is Govenment funded , the work is varied they usually pay good rates or a good circuit owned cinema chains, while they are still out there, forget the 'Warehouse' style Pop corn film factories!.
The more experience you can get, the better chances of promotion.
the best payed projectionist jobs is in Preview Theatres or a Technical Manager or a projection engineer.
The BKSTS in the UK last year produced a well written Projectionist Training manual which is worth investing in.
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 10-01-1999, 01:32 PM:
Ben,I'm extremely interested in the training manual you mentioned. I've long been aware that it is very difficult to find modern projection training materials. I'm aware of the vintage stuff, such as "Richardson's Blue Book of Projection," but have not seen anything more recent with the exception of the SMPTE manual from 1969. Do you have any specifics on how to order a copy of the UK manual?
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 10-01-1999, 06:08 PM:
The BKSTS (The British Kinematograph Sound and Television Society) The Moving Image Society. The "Projectionists Manual" is priced about £40.00 plus postage, they can be contacted by e-mail or by the web.e-mail movimage@bksts.demon.co.uk www.bksts.demon.co.uk
Edition 1.0 the one I have was printed in 1997
Posted by Erich Loepke (Member # 166) on 10-04-1999, 12:57 AM:
Sounds to me like that "projectionists' manual" is well worth investing in. My real question is this: Since I am interested in learning how to do a decent job doing something I enjoy, is it worth my while to get myself started in this field when something like digital video projection is looming out there? I would sure hate to find out that I am finally enjoying my job when I'm suddenly replaced by a large-screen TV. That's my problem now with the field I'm in, namely electronics. I am full of useless, obsolete knowledge and find that I'm helpless to understand all this new computer based crap all over the drawing boards. Besides, I'm really much more of a mechanical person anyway. That's why I'm considering film projection as a possible next step. Also, it sounds to me like I wouldn't want to start at a place like AMC, et.al. because they don't expect quality from the booth anyway.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-04-1999, 05:27 PM:
Check out the topic (currently on Page 2) entitled "average projectionist pay".
Posted by Erich Loepke (Member # 166) on 10-04-1999, 09:31 PM:
I read the other thread about this subject quite a while ago, but I took a second look. It seems like most of you are underpaid for the kind of work involved. You're not only pushing buttons up there. Right now I'd say that in my present field I earn more than the average projectionist. But there are always those of us out here that have all this money but hate our jobs (I'm one of those). I will definitely look into finding myself a job at a theater soon! Thanks to all of you who took the time to answer my questions!
Posted by Stephen Winner (Member # 8) on 10-06-1999, 08:30 PM:
You might try checking with some of the independant theaters, or second run houses in your area. I know an older friend at the theater I work at here that got me this job. Having some type of technical/film experience helps too. Here, you are not only a projectionist, but a general techie for the theater, since our theater is set up for live performances too, such as concerts and stuff.
I took this job as just a part time "fun" job to put a few extra spending bucks in my pocket...most of which has gone into my 16mm collecting hobby! After visiting the booth a few years back and getting the grand tour of the place, I asked if they were hiring, and they said they could work me in if I had some technical background!
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-07-1999, 10:35 PM:
I agree with Stephen. If your passion is motion pictures, you would probably be happiest in a smaller theatre (preferably a single screen - at least to start). I find, that the more screens you have to run, the more detached you become from the performance. Don't get me wrong. The people who run these giant multiplexes work hard for their money (even Joe),
but their attention to performance is divided amoung all these screens. (If ever I have a nightmare about the trade, it involves being a relief projectionist in one of these places, and being unable to find one or two of the booths.) The job, as some projectionists have described it to me, becomes one of working in a "film factory".
I don't know if I could take the stress of running one of these installations. I don't think I'd want to try.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-07-1999, 10:51 PM:
C'mon Rick...where's the challenge? You could do it! Run down to your local 30 plex and ask to run a shift sometime! The most I've ever ran was 15 screens with no timers, but I still had plenty of time left over. If you gave me a 30 screen with timers, no problem. The presentation would NOT suffer.Now if we were talking 30 screens of automated changeovers running 6000' reels with timers...THAT would be tricky! (but not impossible) 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-08-1999, 07:43 PM:
with changeovers would be more lade back as the first reels would be threaded up long before the movie ended so there wouldn't be the mad rush to laceup at intermission
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 10-09-1999, 01:26 AM:
Brad, you must be superhuman.
How can you run 15 screens without timers and still have time left over? I've been running 14 recently and it's insane.
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-10-1999, 02:23 PM:
I really depends on the show schedule. At my theatre, we typically have an hour intermission on each house, so you have plenty of time to thread.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-12-1999, 05:52 PM:
After you do it a while it's easy to run many projectors. In fact, after a while anything else can get boring!When my theate opened, there was 1 'guy' for every 2-3 projectors. (17 screens)
After a week or two, about HALF of them washed out to the usher and concession depts.
We ran with 3 people in the booth for about the next 6 mos. and for the rest of the year we had 2 ppl.
Now, one 'guy' opens the booth about an hour before 1st show. (12:30) The next guy doesn't come in till 2:00. The "opener" goes home at 6:00 and a "closer" comes in to help the 2:00 guy until he goes home at 10:30. After that the closer is solo for the rest of the night. (S)he has to clean all the machines and shut down at the end of the night.
Anybody who's "compentent" should be able to run 10 screens. (My opinion) As far as status boards and timers... never used 'em.
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 10-12-1999, 10:38 PM:
You're right, Randy. Any good operator should be able to handle 10 or fewer screens with decent results. However I prefer small houses, and I never get bored
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-13-1999, 12:11 AM:
I have operated a 9-plex (5 downstairs and 4 upstairs, 4 separate booths), alone, to include thursday night make-up and breakdowns without timers or status boards, and the only time I have really needed assistance in the booth is if something goes terribly wrong such as a major brainwrap or mechanical failure...Ten shouldnt be any worse, especially if all the theatres have one common booth.Aaron
Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 10-13-1999, 02:36 PM:
I run a 16 plex, with timers and status boards, and I'm always the only one running the booth during a shift. The timers give me extra time that I use to do cleaning chores, or theatre checks - anything to make sure that no presentation is deminished just because I'm a platter jockey. No movies ever start up with something wrong with the thread - as long as I'm in the booth. If I couldn't handle it, I would go down to a smaller theatre. It would be hard, but I know I could run a 24 plex by myself better than any team of AMC ushers. (Wow, that's not saying much, is it?) It doesn't matter how many screens you have, the quality doesn't deminish just because the number is higher. In my opinion, it all depends on the efficiency of the operator.
Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 10-13-1999, 06:51 PM:
I agree with your comment Erika about the operator, but I would like to add this point: the operator is a product of their training. (not always,but many times at multiplex houses) If the operator was trained well,the number of screens shouldn't matter. But,how it is now,many places have ushers,janitors,ticket people,etc. in the booths and their training in very minimal to none. Then the equation looks like this:
More Screens=More Problems=More refunds, etc. (Ok time to rant...put projectionist back in the booths! If some one wants to learn to run the equipment properly and try to do a good job,fine. But quit pulling people off the floor or off the street and putting them in the booth. Half the time they don't care,half do their job,and have no concern for me or the next person that gets their print. Ok,I feel better now.--Chris
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-16-1999, 07:39 PM:
Allright, allright....what is this nonsense about running 6000' reels on automated changeovers being _more_ difficult?I'll take the largest complex you can run platters...add two and I'll run it automated changeovers.
On Thursdays I'll have my new films/trailers and old films/trailers done first too.
BTW...on all this boasting about how many screens everyone is boasting about being able to run, how many times do you get to check EACH screen to ensure optimal focus? I don't know of many platter guys that ever look out after the show starts and don't even do that if they use timers/clocks on the larger plexes.
Steve
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-19-1999, 03:38 PM:
I check each projector every time I walk down the hall. Since I walk up and down the rows about 100 times a day, each one gets checked 100 times!Okay, I exagerate, but I think people get the point.
No matter how big or small your booth you should be constantly checking things. My suggestion is to just stay on your feet! So many people I train in the booth are good for about 2 months then they just slack off. Next thing you know, they are in one of three places. 1) watching a movie. 2) sitting at the desk reading the newspaper. 3) outside smoking.
If you just stay on your feet and walk up and down the row, (Except for breaks, etc.), you'll almost automatically be checking projectors! Any good projectionist knows that more than HALF of the problems you have can be detected by sound alone!
Remember that scene in "Cinema Paradiso"?
Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 10-20-1999, 01:17 PM:
Optimal focus? I only need to check that once a week on each projector! Once the focus is set on a particular movie, I never touch the knob again until prints get moved.As Randy said, a good projectionist is checking things as he/she walks down the booth. I do it without even thinking about it. I also check my threads as I'm threading, and believe it or not - I DON'T make threading mistakes. Threading mistakes are for rookies.
And though I am usually not there when the projector starts up because of timers, I always have time to go downstairs to check movies from the auditoriums at least once a night. I tend to notice any technical problems long before the customers do.
But I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, so if you don't believe me, come on down to my theatre, and feel free to critique me. I'm always open for suggestions
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-20-1999, 01:39 PM:
I must agree with Erika (once again) with her comments above. In particular, the focus issue. Running emulsion out (soundtrack up) on platters, checking focus is NOT an issue. The only time it would be is if there is something mechanically loose in the lens holder/turret or the emulsion is wound in. I've ran years and years this way and although I always checked for optimal focus, it was never needed.Also, on the late model Christie platters, it's awful hard to make a threading error, as their new roller design doesn't allow the film to fall off the rollers and the AW3 was an excellent design to begin with.
As to checking all machines in a large complex, no problem. Running a large theatre requires going from machine to machine to rethread and such...one must walk by running machines all the time. Sound plays a big role in troubleshooting too. Most things can be detected by sound (except a douser not opening).
I also have used timers for thousands upon thousands of starts in my days and perhaps one in a thousand had a problem such as a jammed douser. Never were there out of frame or out of focus starts and the extremely rare problems were always corrected immediately anyway.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-22-1999, 06:10 PM:
Ok, I have to take exception to this...I have yet to see a film projected using 2KW and up that didn't have observable focus drift after 20 minutes and annoyingly so after an hour. And that is with soundtrack up or down (BTW every film manufacturer has tested and shown that the film emulsion is more stable if it is stored emulsion in or soundtrack down, and I have proven it time and again on reels now).The gate parts heat up, the lens heats up and expands...it might look "ok" from a quick glance in the port but not so down at the theatre.
Every once an a while, I get a person that focuses for the trailers when they start...during the opening credits things have started to drift but still passable but by the 3rd reel there is really no description more fitting than "out of focus." And this is with top lenses by ISCO and Schneider.
If you want to see the drift, take binoculars with you around the booth.
Steve
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-22-1999, 09:21 PM:
Next time you're in Dallas, feel free to stop by and I'll show ya. I too have used binoculars to check the focus and simply put, never had a problem.One must remember though, those recommended practices were drawn up before polyester came around. I am referring to plattered prints and polyester. Running reel to reel will cause problems regardless of the winding orientation. The hubs are too small. Nevertheless, I've had no problems in the past running platter or changeover winding exclusively emulsion out. Perhaps there is something all together different we are doing other than the winding orientation which causes you headaches and doesn't affect me? Winding tension perhaps???
Anyway, wind however it works best for you...but I'd be awful interested in knowing your booth equipment that is causing you such problems every 20 minutes. If you do stop by, don't forget to bring your binoculars. 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-23-1999, 03:19 AM:
Steve, are you using Cinemeccanica's?After you visit Brad's theatre, be sure to visit mine as well. It's right next door. That is if "next door" is an acceptable term for 1000 miles away.
But every Thursday night we screen prints, set the focus right at startup and the focus remains constant throughout. Sometimes when I don't get to run a print on Thursday I will focus the movie on the closing credits the next day. Upon startup after that and every following day the movie is perfectly in focus from beginning to end. We are using Chrisitie projectors and mostly Schneider lenses. On some of our smaller houses the flat lenses are ISCO.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-27-1999, 11:46 PM:
I've been talking with a guy that I think is pretty knowledgeable. I asked him about 'emulsion in/out'.He said that the reason for that was because during shipping, the film can get hot or cold and expand or contract. This expansion/contraction could cause reticulation (sp?) of the emulsion if it isn't stored emulsion IN.
He also said that if you store the film in 'stable' conditions, (eg: temperature), you don't have to worry. It won't make much difference which way it's stored 'cuz the film won't expand/contract.
Essentially, he said that you should store the film whatever way works best for you. (I like "out") If you think your film might be subjected to extremes of temperature, them you might want to go with 'emulsion in.'
...Just my $0.02 worth...
Posted by Chris Wootten (Member # 283) on 03-01-2003, 08:13 AM:
You guys are gluttons. I am quite happy with my single screen, twin Bauer U3s with changeovers...HA