This is topic A question about Cinemark presentations in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Masao Garcia (Member # 184) on 10-20-1999, 12:44 PM:
I've been reading this board for like the past week, and I've learned a lot from this site. I've even tried posting once, but it didn't seem to work. Anyway, hopefully this one will work. I've seen the hatred for AMC presentations here, and I was wondering what people think about any Cinemark presentations they've been through. I personally work for Cinemark, at a 10-plex, and I think only one or two of our prints are scratched and I believe our overall presentation is fairly good. Where I live, Cinemark pretty much owns the valley. They have a fairly new 22-plex about 10 miles away from my work, and their presentation really sux. They've improved since they've opened (May 19th...hmm, Star Wars?), but their presentation is still lacking.
Anyway, I was just wondering how everyone else thought about Cinemark.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-20-1999, 01:23 PM:
Cinemark (at least down here) seems to be one of the better chain-run theatres in regards to presentation. I don't like their selection of Ultra stereo processors and a few other little quirks like not leaving enough room on the "platforms" for the raised projectors/platters to easily move a print, but overall they're pretty darned good. 
I would assume this is pretty much a fair generalization across the country, as surely something would've been posted otherwise on the forum by now.Of course, it will vary from theatre to theatre depending on the projection equipment installed (example: Simplex projectors=dirty prints due to the soundhead design) and most importantly, the particular booth operator team currently at any given location. Bad operators always=bad presentation.
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 10-20-1999, 01:31 PM:
I enjoy Cinemark presentations and I would go see any film at any Cinemark theater without hesitation. Where I work, many of our managers and assistant managers go on to become Cinemark people. Yesterday, in fact, I learned that a former manager recieved his own ten-plex outside Canton, Ohio. A former assistant (and very good friend) has been running a nine screen not to far down the road from there in Wooster. Both of these guys are happy with Cinemark. One of the guys in our booth presently is making motions of crossing over to the Texas based company. I think it would be very good for him. A few of the folks on this forum are Cinemark employees. Randy Stankey, a projectionist at Tinseltown 17 comes to mind right away, but there are others.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-20-1999, 03:01 PM:
Yes, I am a 'Cinemarker". Even though I've only been doing this for 3-1/2 yrs., I think I do a pretty d*mn good job. However, I want to learn as much as I can so I can improve.I ALWAYS hear things like, "(sigh...) You work for THAT place?" There seems to be a feeling that 'googolplex' theatres aren't very good. That depresses me. I try pretty hard to make things as perfect as I can.
If anybody has a complaint with a movie: I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT! Even though I think I'm good, I still make mistakes. I can't fix what I don't know about.
(Furthermore, if my Mgr. knows that there have been complaints / constructive criticism, maybe they'll give me more of those maintainence hours I've been asking for.)
(TT-17 -- Erie, Pa)
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-20-1999, 06:08 PM:
"I think only one or two of our prints are scratched"Really? Only one or two? That's pretty good! Of course, all of mine are scratched. We scratch them on the first run. Why? Because it's film and people need to see dirt and scratches to fully appreciate the "film experience"!
Of course, I am kidding!
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-20-1999, 06:36 PM:
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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-20-1999, 07:09 PM:
Ian--I've been looking for a product that will give those nice diagonal platter scratches, even on prints that have never been run on a platter. Being a skeptical consumer, I'd like to see a demo of film-scratch before I buy it. Do you mind if I send you a rare/mint/IB Tech print of something for the demonstration? Thanks!
Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 10-20-1999, 07:19 PM:
When will RamCo be rolling out Digital Film Scratch? Given AMC's current talk about Digital Cinema, and their consistent use of Film Scratch, I'm sure they'll be anxious to implement a digital version within the next few months.
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 10-20-1999, 10:41 PM:
Ian, how much control does the operator have over the Film-Scratach system? If you specifically want your emulsion scratches to be all green, or yellow only, can you do that? It sounds like a good idea to me, but putting new equipment into theatres means training people to operate it. Your basic AMC projection monkey will probably screw it up and his film will look brand new for months. Who is gonna train these people?
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-20-1999, 10:46 PM:
Since I've been thinking about it....Where should I look for the best examples of excellence in presentation?
I kind of work in a vacuum. There are four operating theatres in my town and I work at two of them. 23 of the 28 screens are owned by Cinemark. That leaves me without a lot to compare to.
I first learned how to run projectors at Cinemark and everything else I've learned about projection has been pretty much self-taught or from books. (AND of course this site!) I have spoken to less than 6 people total for advice and knowledge.
I guess this is a two parter:
1) What is the #1 theater that any projectionist worth his salt should visit at least once in their lives? ("Projectionist's Mecca", if you will.)
2) What is a great theater that I can travel to without spending a lot of money to get there? (I live in Pennsylvania, approx. in the center of the Cleveland, Buffalo and Pittsburgh 'triangle'.) I'm willing to take a day's drive and possibly an over-nighter.
A 'plus' would be if the people there will talk to you or even give a short tour. (I promise to keep my hands in my pockets if you say so )
Posted by Stephen Jones 1 (Member # 114) on 10-21-1999, 04:35 AM:
I too am a "Cinemarker" and am very pleased with the company. They seem to care about my presentations. Though my theatre doesn't the business of the Tinseltown 20 in Plano, they still care enough to send my parts and supplies within five days. I work in Arkansas and everyone out there should be happy that they don't have to go to some of these theatres. The two Cinemark theatres in the Little Rock market are just way above the competition. Agreeing with Randy, I too would like to get in those much needed maintenace hours. I take much pride in my booth and it's nice to see others with the same company care and love their jobs as much as I do. I have a question: I've worked with Cinemark for 3 years and I was taught to take off the green leader to previews. I notice that other theatres leave it on, and all the CInemarks I've been to take it off. Personally, I think it makes the previews flow much easier and the presenation seems to be smooth without the interuptions of the "legal fine print." Also, in Arkansas, Cinemark is the only one that runs sound trailers on the beginning out their movies. I think that the sound trailer adds to the excitement of watching a movie in a theatre and not at home. Okay, enough talking on my part.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-21-1999, 08:10 AM:
On the topic of "quality theatres that are worth visiting," I'll contribute a few personal favorites: Byrd Theatre, Richmond VA. (1928 movie palace in beautiful condition, second-run films, $2 admission, cool 1950s booth--see pic gallery); Senator Theatre, Baltimore MD. (example of an extremely well-run theatre with top presentation quality; I haven't seen the booth there, but I do know that it's equipped for 16/35/70mm with SDDS, Dolby Digital, DTS-70, and mag, first-run); CO Uptown Theatre, Washington DC (former Cinerama house, still has deep-curve screen [sheet, not strips], big red curtains, comfy seats, first-run programming, top-notch presentation, smallish but interesting booth--see pic gallery); AFI Theatre, Washington DC (consistently top-notch presentations, interesting art/rep programming, good sound, booth is equipped for 16/35mm and is fireproofed for nitrate); Avon Cinema, Providence RI (still burning carbon arc, smallish screen but consistently nice presentations, art-house progrmaming)
There are a lot of other great theatres that would qualify for "honorable mentions" that I won't bother to list here. I'd be interested to see others' contributions to this topic.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-21-1999, 09:45 AM:
The "Projectionist's Mecca" near me would be New York City. Two I can think of off the top of my head would be the Zigfeld and Radio City MH. For different reasons: The Zig has great sight lines and high quality picture/sound, although the booth is nothing special (a pair of JJ's and a platter); RCMH gives you a feel for when a projectionist was a Projectionist, showing one film to almost 6000 people with your choice of (3) 35/70 and one 35 only projector, and not a sound rack, but a sound room to hold all the amps.
Also, don't forget movie palaces of old nearby at the Loew's Valienca and Loew's Kings (now a church.) Forget about Loew's Pardise which has been chopped up.
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 10-21-1999, 09:55 AM:
Yes, I am also with Cinemark. I take great pride in my work, trying to make it the best that I can. It is very hard for me to go to a movie with my family there though because if something is not how I would present it, I almost always go up to the booth to fix it. It really bothers me!One wish, Cinemark would get us the supplies that we need to do our job better. (In case someone is looking)
1. Larger clamps for the upcoming 10 reel Insider. (I know this from visiting with Brad at his place).
2. 2K split reel for rewinding reel changes back onto the core. (I guess I could get a Technicolor reel but don't want to risk my health).
3. Diagnostic film strips for checking Dolby Digital Offset and other simple maintenance aids. Along with appropriate training.
Paul Konen
Usher B
Cinemark Legacy 24
Plano TX
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-22-1999, 02:41 PM:
Paul,The longer clamps and split reels are both available from Neumade and a priced well below your theatres spending limit. Part numbers are available off of the Neumade web site. As for the SRD test films, you can proabably requisition them, but most of them are pretty much useless w/o the proper test equipment.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-22-1999, 03:27 PM:
THE thing that I'd ask for is some test film. A little RP-40/PA-35 and some BT-35, etc. would hit the spot. I have some of my own that I obtained from other sources but I don't use it unless it's important. Normally I use old trailers. I realize that they don't want to give the stuff out willy-nilly 'cuz some people fould really F--- things up if they had it. But it sure would come in handy, sometimes!#2 would be those extra-big clamps!
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-22-1999, 03:56 PM:
Screw film clamps! I have never ever used them at my current theatre. Never had to. Waitaminute.... there were a couple of times when we gave a print away to another theatre without busting it apart first, but we usually took the print off of the platter and then clamped it. But we certainly don't use them for moving prints. Don't want the platters to get all scratched up like I see in every other Christie booth. (Scratched platters can actually sling prints!!)
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-22-1999, 04:22 PM:
I second the inclusion of "test films" in the list. Personally, I think that every theatre, particularly multiplexes (where the cost per screen is low), ought to have a full set of test films for picture and sound alignment. Test equipment would be nice, too, but the resourceful projectionist can usually find someone who will loan him, say, an oscilloscope for a day or two.
Every theatre ought to have a 2000' split reel and, if they are using ELRs, a 6000' Goldberg split reel. I once dealt with a feature that was shipped on cores, which got interesting because we only had a 1200' split reel in the theatre. I ended up attaching (with maskign tape) a 2000' 16mm reel to one side of it and using a handcrank rewind bench to slowly and carefully transfer the film to/from cores and Goldberg 2000' house reels. This was Not Fun.
Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 10-22-1999, 07:02 PM:
To answer Stephen's question about the green bands - I was told that legally I had to include them with the trailers. But even if that isn't true, I would never cut them off because a lot of trailers' sound starts during the green band, so if you cut off the green band, you cut off part of the sound, and I find that very tacky. I like to cut the heads of trailers a few inches before the green band starts - that way the customers can't see the splice jump.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-22-1999, 09:05 PM:
I leave them on not only for the sound problem Erika spoke of, but to "show off" how clean the prints are as well. 
Legally, I don't think there is anything anyone can do. At least if there is, the MPAA certainly hasn't bothered pursuing it.
Posted by Andrew Walls (Member # 179) on 10-22-1999, 10:10 PM:
[ 04-22-2007, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Walls ]
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-23-1999, 03:35 AM:
I think the real reason behind those company policies of removing the greenbands is because they don't want to show off the obvious dirt and scratches that the greenband makes so visible (because said companies feel that they are incompetant). I mean really---what company cares so much about the flow of TRAILERS that they make an entire policy about it? These are the same companies who put tons and tons of ads on the front of their films! That surely ruins the flow. If the companies put that much emphasis on the flow of trailers, why not put emphasis elsewhere as well? Like all Dolby processors? THX? (I may not be a huge fan of THX but I love that crossover). Or an ultrasonic splicer for the booth? That'd make things flow pretty smooth!And yes, a true theatre will have a flawless greenband (except when they come from the lab looking like your xenon is out of focus when it is not). And FilmGuard sure helps make things bright, steady and clear! Not a speck!
Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 10-23-1999, 12:59 PM:
Back to comments on Cinemark theaters,the ones here in central and eastern Kentucky are good. I live near Lexington and Ashland,KY where there are several Cinemark houses and they are your better bet than the Sony/Loews that represent your other major chain choice. The presentations I have been to were ok. It just varies on who's in the booth.
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-23-1999, 04:18 PM:
>The "Projectionist's Mecca" near me would
>be New York City.
...
>Also, don't forget movie palaces of old
>nearby at the Loew's Valienca and Loew's
>Kings (now a church.) Forget about Loew's
>Pardise which has been chopped up.Hop the PATH train to NJ...it looks like they're resuscitating the Loew's Jersey City.
http://www.panix.com/~solan/loews.html
Volunteer for a work day; have a friend take your picture with your head poking out the chandelier-hole.
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-24-1999, 03:24 AM:
Personally, scratched platters or no, I ALWAYS use clamps.. Picking up prints that have come apart and ended up in piles on the floor is NOT fun. This has happened TWICE at the theatre I am at and both times were due to no clamps...Randy, in reply to your earlier comments, you *should* be able to get loops of RP-40, BT-35 and Cat 69T from your region engineer. If your engineer won't send you any, send in requisitions. You should be able to get 50 feet of each for under your purchasing limit.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-24-1999, 02:32 PM:
I agree with Jim's choice of test film for the booth (provided they are used with a reasonable amount of thought).RP-40 is valuable for checking lens resolution, aperture alignment and travel-ghost (although for the latter, I prefer the B.O.F.T.G.T.K.). The Blind Old Fart's Travel-Ghost Test Kit consists of a loop of high-contrast black and white credits from an old trailer and a pair of 10 X 35 binoculars.
The Buzz-track is great for determining whether that vacuum-cleaner sound in the background is an improperly printed D.T.S. track or a mis-aligned latteral guide assembly.
Cat 69 T is essential for checking Dolby level to assure level matching for optimum noise reduction, however, don't be too quick to pick up that tweaker yet!
This system was, presumably, perfectly set the last time it was aligned. Something has changed. It is probably not the solar cell, and Dolby pre-amps are quite stable. The change, therefore is likely in the sound-head. First, check for dirty optics, sagging exciter lamp filliament (correctable in most American soundheads), or tampering. Check these possiblities first.
If using the old black-and-white Dolby C.N. 69, make sure that the right side of the loop is threaded and you are not trying to reach Dolby level with pink noise.
P.S. It helps if you buy the technician a coffee or two.
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 10-24-1999, 02:34 PM:
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-25-1999, 02:52 AM:
Coffee??!?A six-pack of Newcastle Brown Ale is an absolute must! <grin>
Aaron
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-27-1999, 11:06 PM:
The time I use my piece of BT-35 is when we get that 'vacuum cleaner' sound...I adjust the L.Guide and shut off the proj, and re thread. If it STAYS in alignment, OK. If it doesn't, the problem isn't the L. Guide roller. (I have to call NCS -- The new guy we got is pretty good.)
BTW... If you get a 'SCRAPE....SCRAPE....SCRAPE' sound or a 'freight train' sound in the background..... I just recently discovered that you can visually see the bad soundtrack. It fades from black/purple to blue, repeatedly.
I mentioned this because I USED to think it was something wrong with the proj.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-28-1999, 12:51 AM:
Usually the 'growling' or 'freight train' sound is DTS timecode being read by the solar cells, rather than a color changing soundtrack...Aaron
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-28-1999, 11:30 AM:
Today, analog soundtracks are printed so the soundtrack information is either printed in the cyan+magenta layer (looks dark blue), or in the magenta layer only (looks magenta), known as "high magenta". During processing, the lab applies a special viscous soundtrack developer after the bleaching step, to redevelop silver in the soundtrack area. Silver is needed to properly modulate the light in older "white light" soundheads that are sensitive to both visible and infrared light. If the soundtrack redeveloper is not applied properly, the sound may have unusual noises (thumps, pops, wooshing sound) or be low in level. The soundtrack areas where the silver was not redeveloped properly will look lighter or "less black" than the areas that have silver. If the soundtrack redeveloper accidently gets into the picture area, it will cause a dark colored deposit of silver.The new "red readers" that use a red LED as the light source do not need silver in the soundtrack, as they are not sensitive to infrared light. In a few years, when most theatres have converted to red LED readers, the film industry hopes to convert to analog soundtracks that are printed in the cyan dye layer, and eliminate the cost and problems of redeveloping the silver. The current "high magenta" tracks are a step in that direction, as they are more compatible with both old "white light" and new red LED readers. High magenta tracks still require the soundtrack redeveloper step to form silver in the soundtrack area.
------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-29-1999, 04:14 PM:
Thanks, Mr. P.Now I know that I'm not crazy. (Well...)
We've had this problem for a long time, on and off and it drives me nuts! (Okay, a short walk...)
We call it the "Spitfire Effect" 'cuz that's the first movie we noticed it in... (Spitfire Grill -- Almost 3 years ago!)
It sounds like a scraping or rumbling sound. Usually only audible in the quiet parts, but sometimes pretty loud. It often starts in the middle of a reel and ends abruptly at change-over. We've probably had to get over a dozen replacement reels over the years. (We pretty much always knew it was the film, just didn't know WHY.)
Finally, the last time it happened, I stopped the projector (The only guy in there got a rain check and LEFT) and I looked at the film in the light. When I found the wonky-looking soundtrack I cut out a frame or two and saved it. (I hope it didn't get tossed)
Essentially, all this means is that there's ANOTHER stupid lab/processing error that I have to look out for when I build up prints.... JEEZ!!!
TIP: Don't screen your movies in digital! If you do, you might not find out till two weeks later when the print moves to a non-digital house!!! It will probably be on a Friday night when you get 9,000,001 complaints!!!
(Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, Thank you... Please Drive through!)
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-29-1999, 04:55 PM:
I don't think not screening movies in digital is necessarily the best idea. Perhaps the SR track is fine but the digital track is defective! For that matter, with theaters boasting all 3 flavors of digital, it would require 4 different prescreenings to find out for sure for future compatibility!!!I've seen tracks with tiny white dots (like negative dirt) in the optical track before. They sound like surface noise on a badly scratched record (say a stereo record played on a mono player and then played again on a stereo turntable). I know many of the Abyss prints were like that and I still find this defect occasionally with current releases. Fortunately the problem does not show up near as much with the led system.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-29-1999, 05:59 PM:
The green tag on trailers being better or worse is obviously a matter of opinion (since we have seen both sides expressed here). I'll throw my opinion into the ring with leave them on...they are part of the preview. They are also a source of information to the viewer...ie what is the feature rated in the following preview. There is also a safty for the theatre in that a green tag trailer HAS been approved for ALL audiences though certainly running THE MATRIX trailers on your CARE BARES feature is probably out of place.With regard to test film...
35-PA (aka RP-40) and P35-BT (Buzz track) are camera originals and VERY expensive (low volume and high failure rate)
50 feet of 35-PA is $170.00 from SMPTE ($3.40/foot)
50 feet of P35-BT is $139.00 from SMPTE ($2.78/foot)
I can therefore understand not sending out the film willy nilly. Also there is a service life to the film and once it changes dimensionally, no longer is valid.
Steve
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 10-30-1999, 03:02 AM:
Just thought I'd chime in on the green band thing. It is a legal thing, it shows that the preview is approved for ALL audiances. Remember that there are some red band trailers out there (approved for restricted audiances only, as if have have to tell you people out there what a red band is 
).
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-30-1999, 03:28 AM:
It's not a legal thing, as the raitings aren't mandated by the government (in the U.S.)
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-30-1999, 04:01 AM:
Yeah, Jim's right. A theater can't be fined for cutting off the green bands, but I always leave them on anyway for
- The identification
- The sound advance
- To show off how clean my prints are
I do know some chains have a policy including AMC and Cinemark for cutting them off.
Posted by Scott Shepard (Member # 196) on 10-31-1999, 10:26 PM:
I would like to add my 2 cents worth about the green band fiasco. Some years back as a theatre projectionist I saw the AMC theatre in the area cut off their green bands on their trailers. I thought it helped with the continuity of the program. After a while some other operators I knew thought it was a great idea also. They started doing it too. Sometime later the MPAA sent out a letter stating that the green bands were to be left on. In California, things are watched a little bit closer then in other parts of the country.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-02-1999, 11:02 AM:
I thought somebody might object to screening in stereo vs. digital.For the most part, I agree with you. How the heck can you screen the print 3 or 4 times? My rationale is this...
1) If you know that your SR track is good, you can always fall back to it if your digital track(s) are bad or if your SDDS goes wonky. If your SR track is bad too, you're pretty much screwed. (This has happened to me!)
2) If your theatre doesn't have digital in every house, like mine, you could play the movie in digital for a month before it moves to a non-digital house. It won't be until some busy Friday when it gets noticed. Then you'll be up to your armpits in complaints like, "Don't you PRE-SCREEN your movies?! (This has also happened to me!)
The logic I use is that your SR track is your lowest common denominator or your 'fall back' option. If for some reason you need it and it's not useable, you're outta' luck. I find VERY few problems with digital tracks. Chances are that it's your player (SDDS) that's bad! However, I find that more and more SR tracks are bad.
...That's why I try to screen in stereo