This is topic Why not build onto the platter? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 10-26-1999, 12:26 PM:
This may sound like a dumb question to those of you who've been building for a while, but why does it seem to be the concensus that building directly onto the platter is a bad thing? We've got a make-up table that rolls right up next to the platter and movies are spliced one reel at a time onto the platter. It seems like a logical system to me. What are the disadvantages to doing it this way? How would you advise that it be done?
(I'm new to this and am taking the advise given to me on this BBS, "Ask lots of questions"... I hope I don't drive you all nuts. lol)
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-26-1999, 12:43 PM:
I am a collector. I have gotten new prints in the past. I will not run anything new or old before it gets a thorough check out. Even new prints can (and do) have bad splices in them. If you are loading directly on the platter, you are probably coating your platter surface with that grey gunk that some exchanges manage to get all over the prints. Not to mention any defect in the print will be very hard to fix after loading.
I think it makes sense to check each reel thoroughly FIRST.
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-26-1999, 12:45 PM:
Why I like to build up at the make-up table / workbench.1. There is light at the make-up table.
2. There is a comfortable stool at the make-up table.
3. All of the supplies are at the make-up table.
4. I can be making up a print while the platter mutt is spinning the print on to the platter. No, Joe, this isn’t a crack about you.
5. The film counter and frame line checker are at the make-up table.
6. There is a light in the make-up table so I can check the quality of the print.
7. While I am comfortably sitting at the make-up table, I hand check the print, looking for lab-splices. (These should be removed and re-made.)
8. The telephone is near the make-up table so I can call and bitch to Technicolor about the sorry state of their prints.
9. The radio is near the make-up table so I can pretend I’m doing something else.
10. The make-up table is faster than a Christie Autowind III Platter.
11. While the platter mutt is winding the film on to the platter, slowly, I don’t need to attend it. I can be doing something else; like building up another print.
12. My coke is less likely to spill while on the make-up table.
13. There is paper towels at the make-up table so I can wipe the popcorn oil off of my hands before I handle the print.
14. The trailer cabinet is near the make-up table.
15. The leaders and policy trailers are at the make-up table.
16. I don’t have to bend over as much at the make-up table.
17. At my old theatre there were two make-up tables side by side so that I could rewind on the second table, while continuing to work on the first table.
There are bonus points, if you tell me how many times I typed “make-up table.” 
Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 10-26-1999, 03:55 PM:
Though some of Ian's points may seem superficial, believe me it makes a big difference to have everything you need right next to you.But my biggest reason for not making up directly to the platter is - YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING! Lots of times when I'm building up I find pieces of tape in the print that could easily cause a brainwrap. There's no way I'd catch those if I built up to the platter. I could come up with a ton more examples, but I think you get the idea.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-26-1999, 07:44 PM:
Yeah Ian, like you have ever removed a lab splice! I just feel that I do a much better job at the work-bench as opposed to straight to the platter. It is good to inspect the print. I wish all film came tails out 100% of the time. That would force people to build at the work bench (ha ha).
Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 10-26-1999, 08:51 PM:
I've always built onto a platter....For me it was necessary because also being a popcorn jockey, I simply did not have the time to make up the film on the rewind bench.
Even without checking the film first, I've found several prints that have had glitches, bad sprockets, scratches, etc., just by building up onto the platter. It just takes practice and patience.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-26-1999, 08:51 PM:
Maybe I'm totally nuts, but I must say that I personally prefer to do print inspection on a handcrank rewind bench if the print isn't in great condition. I think that it's easier on the film than constantly starting and stopping a motorized rewind bench, and it allows more thorough inspection of the film. Then again, I've never had the luxury of a variable-speed motorized rewind bench, which would probably be ideal for print inspection. Do "modern" booths even have handcrank rewind benches?
Although I've never worked with platters, I will say that I like to have a bunch of items on the rewind bench when inspecting a print; this stuff would never fit on the makeup tables that I've seen. A sync block is absolutely essential when making up trailer reels, since many trailers don't have framelines printed at the fade-in of the green/red band and at the fade-out of the credits at the end. A sync block is also a "must" when dealing with credits or dark scenes which are excessively splicy. I also like to have two different splicers--one with clear tape and one with zebra tape. I normally use clear tape exclusively, but the zebra tape is good for marking reel changes with prints that are exceptionally splicy.
A tape dispenser with artists' tape or painters' masking tape is important, too, since I use tape to hold coiled-up head and tail leaders for prints that don't come with reel bands. Other stuff that I like to have at the rewind bench: rack of common house trailers ("Dolby", "Concession Stand", "Feature Presentation", "Coming Soon", Academy countdowns, etc.); split reels; scissors (for cutting out large chunks of damaged footage); Sharpies (for labelling heads/tails and large reels); and other stuff that I can't think of right now.
Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 10-26-1999, 08:58 PM:
Most modern booths DON'T have hand crank benches.I work in a theatre that dates from 1936. We have a handcrank, and a Goldberg electric rewinder from the 40's. Before I started working there, no one knew how to use the Goldberg. I was also the first person to thoroughly clean the old Simplex XL in 5 years.
Part of the reason younger projectionists don't use rewind tables is the time involved. With so many theatres worried about high payroll, films have to be put together/taken apart in 1/2 hour, or else we get in trouble for wasting too much money!
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 10-27-1999, 01:01 AM:
I agree, it's a time/money thing. The 16 plex that I once worked at, I did all of the film work myself. Thursday I had nine hours to do my payroll, build up all trailer packs for new movies, get the trailers together for all of the prints that were staying in the complex and needed trailer changes, tear down all of the prints that were leaving, build up all of the prints for Firday(we had a standing order to get all prints in on Thursday), move all of the prints that were changing auditoriums, and move up 12 digital processors/digital sound heads. Friday morning I would do all of the trailer changes, and break down trailer packs! I just did not have the time,(nor do most others, I think) to inspect all of the prints coming into the building.
I would have liked to do it, but it just wasn't feasible. I would have liked to screen each print too!!
By the way, did you know that AMC policy is that all prints are screened before they are shown to the public!! (I never worked there, but there was one up the street from a theatre that I used to work at.)
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-27-1999, 01:28 AM:
To hell with payroll. If they aren't willing to pay you to do a good job, then forget it.If I had a ton of stuff like that to do on a Thursday night (and we all sometimes do) then I am going to do it the right way. If they told me I only have a certain amount of hours to get it done, then they had better authorize somebody else to help out in the booth while I do my thing. No way I would work my ass off for a company like that. They are taking advantage of you and trust me, they LOVE it! Of course, I do understand that not everybody has the option of working for a great company.AMC prescreens their prints? I think you misunderstand their policy. The policy is stated verbatim as follows: "It is the policy of AMC Theatres to make sure all new films are prescratched before public veiwing..." it goes on and on, but do we really care about AMC?
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-27-1999, 02:56 AM:
I usually do it both ways: I do trailers, cueing, and tails-out reel rewinding on the bench, then make the prepared print up directly to the platter.All but two of our theatres have some kind of rewinds on the bench, whether they be electric or hand cranked.
Aaron
Posted by Masao Garcia (Member # 184) on 10-27-1999, 02:37 PM:
I have a question about taking out lab splices and making your own (presumably) tape splice. Aren't you just asking for more dirt being attracted to that part of the print by adding a tape splice? I never remove lab splices (yes, even mid-frame splices). I find that a lab splice is less noticeable than a tape splice after a few months of running the print (I don't have FilmGuard...yet). Are lab splices more likely to break than tape splices? I've never had a lab splice break on me in almost two years. Just curious.
Posted by Christopher A Kerr (Member # 151) on 10-27-1999, 07:48 PM:
My bench only has hand crank rewinds and there isn't any room to attach anything larger than a shipping reel to them, so I have to wind straight onto the platter. I prefer to give the reels an inspection on the bench before sending them to the platter, but when you are running a two screen house with only you and a popcorn slinger working at any given time, there isn't allways time.
Posted by Rob Brooks (Member # 186) on 10-27-1999, 08:51 PM:
Film can only be inspected professionally on the rewind table for the reasons Ian mentioned so well. I get top quality EK and wetgate showprints of films for pre-release media screenings. There supposed to be perfect with not even one lab splice. Would you believe as recent as last week I found a piece of masking tape stretched around the film during a reel. You can't have proper control of inspecting the film going directly onto a platter. Lab splices should definately be taken out between frames and replaced with clear tape. You ever see what that looks like on the screen. My manager will make me take it out if they catch it on the screen. By the way put yellow zebra splicing tape used between reels as far to the ends of the film as possible to prevent a sound or picture loss of continunuity. I use clear splices on important screening between reels to prevent any problem at all between reels. ------------------
Rob
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-28-1999, 04:02 AM:
Lab splices are definitely more noticable than tape splices, even without FilmGuard. Before we got FilmGuard, our prints shed really really bad, but there was only a hint of dirt around the taped splices. Of course, now it is super clean!
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-18-2001, 11:45 PM:
OK, I see this thread has been dead for a long time, but I just had to add my 2 cents. Of course I agree that film should always be built up on a rewind table or workbench. The problem with the crappy-ass old theater that I'm at now is that our muts (made by the wonderful folks at Teco, along with our platters and rewinder that bolts onto the workbench) cannot handle the weight of a fully-loaded 1-hour house reel. That's why I love Strong muts. The reels are on top of the table rather than on the side, so the spindles won't bend from the weight of a huge reel. Suggestions? (if anyone even reads this thread anymore.)
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-18-2001, 11:57 PM:
Actually, I liked the old CFS Super Platter MUTS. I put a bigger top on them, so I could rewind a six thousand foot reel, and still have enough room to work with my splicer, if needed. Then I modified table electrically to handle the Strong Platters. I also modified one to handle the Xetron platters. Those modified tables really were the answer to lots of problems.
Paul
Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 09-19-2001, 09:57 AM:
The only reason I prefer to make up a print at the work bench is TIME.If I put 3 reels onto a 6000' reel -- I can do the other half of the movie while the 1st half loads onto the platter. Then I can put the 2nd half on and walk away and put my attention elsewhere, I just have to remember to walk back upstairs and catch the film before it tails off the reel.
This of course, is with an AW3 mut, or a properly braked Super Platter mut. I wouldn't try leaving anything alone on one of the Super Platter muts that don't have the leather band for tension control... that would just be ASKIN' for trouble.
Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-19-2001, 12:35 PM:
This is one area where I must confess I 'cut corners' on. If a print comes heads-up, it goes right onto the platter, BUT I keep a CLOSE watch on it and have plenty of light around to catch anything that might be wrong with it- several years of doing it this way nothing's gotten by me, I've still caught the occasional defects on new prints and fix all the damage on used ones. Some people I've worked with have crucified me for this, but I don't know anyone who's perfect.
One good reason for NOT building onto 6000-foot reels was when I ran the first show of "Waterworld", and after reel 3 the end of reel 6 came on upside-down and backwards- the person who made the film up had forgotten to rewind reels 4, 5 and 6 when they finished. Another thing that cracks me up is loading the 6000-foot reel onto the platter and then LEAVING it while it loads- an 'old pro' I worked with once had some film damaged this way when the film running on that platter ended and the tail end got tangled up in the film being loaded. If I am building onto 6000-foot reels, I still don't ever let them load by themselves! Another thing I noticed is some people will cut the tail end off reel 3 before rewinding it back onto the 6000-footer, so the end of reel 3 will have a few vertical scratches so onscreen you can tell how the film was built up!
Go ahead and say I'm full of it, but I've tried both ways and just don't see the advantage. When I train people I tell them they might do better by building-up at the bench because it might be easier for them to see where to splice, but for me it's just easier to go straight onto the platter.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-19-2001, 01:48 PM:
I build straight onto the platter too, but I only have one screen so it isn't a big deal to stand there and watch the film. I check every splice (and usually remake them, since they're often made with opaque tape, which I hate.)
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-19-2001, 03:11 PM:
Nothing beats the Goldberg platter reel for building prints...nothing! It takes FOREVER to build up a print using a MUT in comparison and there is far less static on the initial payout when using the platter reel to build on. Sure they are a bit over $300 (without transport case), but you only need one for a multiplex. That's a whole lot cheaper than buying multiple MUTs and a bunch of 6000 foot reels. Plus like I said before, it saves time, which saves more money in payroll hours. Plus, if that isn't enough to convince the bean counters, using the platter reel to build prints on also removes the need to carry the splicer around the building to make the reel joints at each platter. (And we all know how often careless operators tend to drop splicers.) It's also damn near impossible to scratch the film in the build-up process. With this product on the market, I'm surprised more people are not using it.There is a detailed review of this product in the reviews section.
Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 09-20-2001, 01:55 PM:
Wait, if you only need one, how do you actually do it with the Goldberg reel? Since most prints come head up, you build it up then rewind them to place it on the platter, how would you build up on to the Goldberg then rewind without having two Goldberg reels to do so? Or would you build up the two 6000 reels then put it on the goldberg? Wouldn't that be the same as building up on two 6000 reels then putting them both on the platter?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-20-2001, 02:08 PM:
Most reels come heads up. You just load them straight to the platter reel and then it's ready to put on a platter. Should a print come tails up, build to large house reels and then do a quick rewind to the platter reel.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-20-2001, 03:13 PM:
Check out the REVIEWS section for the Goldberg platter reel review. You'll see how it works.
Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 09-21-2001, 03:10 PM:
Oh geez, I didn't even see that you could place it onto the platter straight from buildup table. Now lets see if I can convince my manager to purchase one of these bad boys.