This is topic Heads & Tails in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 11-18-1999, 06:06 PM:
Just trying to get a concensus here. The old "Teardown Etiquette" thread didn't spell it out clearly enough for me. What's the preferred method for re-attaching heads and tails. I know not to use masking tape. That's a given. lol But clear tape : ....one side, ....both sides, ? ? ?
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-18-1999, 07:29 PM:
One side. That way, the next guy to use it can put tape on it and use it on a changeover, and the other can peel the tape and platter it.I learned this valuable tid-bit here at Film-Tech!
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-18-1999, 09:53 PM:
Did we ever reach a conclusion on shipping heads-out versus shipping tails-out?
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 11-19-1999, 12:32 AM:
quote:
One side.
Put it on the base side, not the emulsion side, so that when it must be peeled off it doesn't take the emulsion with it.
Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 11-19-1999, 09:25 AM:
I'm glad you asked about heads up/tails up shipping - I'm interested in the other opinions here. Certainly there is not rhyme nor reason to the films we get in...I was taught by and old-school union guy to always ship films out tails-up. That way, the next brother can inspect each reel as he loads it onto his house reels, leaving them heads-up for the show.
This applies to platters, too, if you load it onto 6000' ft. reels as you inspect it, (3-2-1) and load the first reel onto the platter while inspecting 6-5-4.
It seems a lot of undisciplined folks tear down straight off the platter, leaving the film heads-up (and, by the way, not taking off their cues, etc.).
Of course, I'm preaching to the choir here.
Other thoughts/theories?... ... ...
Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 11-19-1999, 12:13 PM:
Thanks for the info on splicing. Now for my 2 cents worth on shipping... At our theatre we are instructed to build directly onto the platter. If we get reels in tails up, then we are forced to rewind them onto another reel to get to the head, then splice and wind up onto the platter. Drives me nuts. So I for one vote for heads up. I can easily see the point of view for the tails up for some of you, but not for me. Until we all start building movies the same way, it's always going to be backwards for somebody.
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 11-19-1999, 12:18 PM:
When it is 1:30 - 2:00 am and you have 5 prints to break down, you are not going to pull to 6K just so that you can go to tails out. It just would take to much time!!
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 11-19-1999, 03:49 PM:
Espically when Technicolor wants the print 5 minutes after it drops...
Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 11-19-1999, 05:06 PM:
That's certainly the "real world" way it is out there. Although I like the tails-out way myself, for inspection purposes.Of course, stuck in the dark ages with EPRAD Simple-Swords, I can build up and tear down whichever way it comes and inspect in on the built-in make-up table.
I hate these things less and less, the more I use them.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-19-1999, 05:33 PM:
My rewind bench sits right next to my Autowind makeup table, so if a print comes in tails up, I just park the reel on the manual rewind spindle and wind onto 6Ks with the 6K reel on the Autowind table. It's faster, and my ancient power rewind bench is not working too well, anyway.I don't know anyone who doesn't break down directly onto shipping reels -- except some of you on this forum. 90% of the films we get (usually about 3-5 weeks after the break) are already trashed by large-city idiots anyway, so I can't possibly harm them any further by going directly onto shipping reels. At least I tape down the film-ends with a NEW piece of tape before shipping them out!
Posted by Stephen Winner (Member # 8) on 11-19-1999, 08:27 PM:
I am kinda up in the air on this one. I perfer heads out if we get a film in for a special event, where we will only be playing it for 1 or 2 nights. We just simply play the movie right off the shipping reels, changing over every 20 minutes. I like doing that because we can run the arc's at 6.5K instead of 4K because the carbons burn up faster at the higher wattage. When running 20min reels, this isn't a problem because we can change them out after 40 minutes. We've got to lower the wattage in order to make them last for an hour, like when we get a feature in that's going to stay with us a while, it's built up.
When we build up a print, Tails out is better though because like previously mentioned, it can be inspected as it goes onto the 6K reel. Most of the prints we recieve are heads out. This is good if we get a print in late, then it's just a matter of throwing it up on the projector, and running it!
So, I'm undecided on this case! It just ends up that the print is wound opposite to the way you'd like when you get it in! (kinda like the traffic lights always being out of sync in this town!)
Posted by Mark Tiedemann (Member # 164) on 11-20-1999, 12:53 AM:
I know this was covered in another thread, but what do you guys do about the cardboard shipping bands?
My tech bitched me out the otherday because I threw 1 away (it was ripped up, and I figured there was no point in putting it back on). Anyways, he told me that Technicolor charges $10 for each band that is missing. Has anyone else heard of this?
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-20-1999, 01:43 AM:
We throw the cardboard shipping bands away. They are as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
Been doing it for a long time, too. Never heard of any charge for not returning them. Hell, they don't say anything when the print is scratched, so I sure they don't care about bands.And regarding those crappy reels Tech sends: From now on, when I break down a print and the reel is busted/cracked/etc., I wind that reel's film onto a core, then place the can with the broken reel out for them. I made a note (made 30 copies) that says; reel broke, blah, blah, would damage film so I didn't use it, but here it is, so you know I didn't steal it, etc. I don't mean to make life hard for the next guy, but someone (at Tech) has to get the message.
I got a 3-er shipping case the other day that looked way past retirement. Inside the cover was written; "Start 1975 off right! Vote for Lee Rosen for shop steward."
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-20-1999, 05:36 AM:
If the cardboard bands are torn or have missing or tangled strings...into the trash they go! No question.If they come in good condition, I save them and put them back onto the reels. It's typically about a 50/50 chance with Technicolor as to their condition.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-20-1999, 06:21 AM:
What's the point of the bands anyway? Are they only used in the USA or in other countries too? (We don't have them in Aussie Land, although as we get most prints from local labs direct in their boxes and on cores, the individual reels are not labeled at all, which can make it kinda annoying)
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-20-1999, 10:28 AM:
Keep the paper bands with the print; I'd only toss them if they were totally trashed and/or if they had the name of a different movie on them. A couple of features that I have in my private collection still have the original bands, which I think is kind of neat...
For shipping, my preference is tails-out. Then, the film can be inspected and rewound only once onto 2000' or 6000' house reels. That said, I usually ran shows on 6000' house reels and rewound the film heads-out onto the shipping reels after the last show. Oh, well...
Posted by Christopher A Kerr (Member # 151) on 11-20-1999, 02:11 PM:
John:In Canada (Ontario at least) the bands are placed on the reels by the provincial film review board to indentify that the film has been rated and approved for showing. My understanding is that we are required to keep the bands and put them back on the film before shipping. If not, I would cerimonialy burn them in the alley behind the theatre every friday night as an offering to the film gods. 
As to the heads / tails debate, if reels come tails up, I make up and inspect at the bench. If they come heads up, I make up at the platter, I just run it slower and do my inspection as it goes. Really it doesn't bother me which way they come in, as long as all the reels in a particular feature are the same. Nothing will ruin your day like a five reel feature that has reels 1,3,5 heads up and reels 2,4 tails up. Someone out there must go to a lot of work to ship a film like this, and I really wish they wouldn't.
Cheers
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-20-1999, 02:40 PM:
Not to be without an opinion (and I know I have posted elsewhere here...)Films should always be shipped tails out with their paper bands properly installed.
As others have stated, tails out allows for any receiving house to inspect the film onto house reels for either platter or changeover showings. Tails out winding also typically has the emulsion in for better focus stability.
The paper bands allow for keeping the ends of the reels from coming loose without using any form of tape that typically oozes it's adhesive onto the film. I can't believe this is such a big deal for anybody.
Steve
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-20-1999, 05:05 PM:
Tails out, emulsion OUT (that's right Steve
) Not all of us have those wonderful vintage Century JJs to run incoming films on and emulsion in winds are not friendly to many makes of projectors.I think in regards to tape, most people on this forum already use white artist's tape or something similar and not that cheap K-mart masking tape.
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 11-20-1999, 11:12 PM:
Head out or tail out, I don't care. As was earlier stated, as long as all of the reels come in one orientation. As far as focus stability, I never had any problem with a film, but trailers, that's another issue! Now if we can get those trailers off of those 1" cores and onto something a bit larger, like they used to do, that would solve that problem!
------------------
Scott
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-21-1999, 12:02 AM:
"I think in regards to tape, most people on this forum already use white artist's tape or something similar and not that cheap K-mart masking tape."
Um, er, well,... Say, how about those Yankees!
White artist's tape is about $5 a roll around here. And with the way we go through it, can't justify the cost.