Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Booth Clocks

This is topic Booth Clocks in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 11-23-1999, 02:22 PM:

It's been a few years since I've worked as a projectionist, but in my prime I was obsessed with precision. And, among the things I cared about was starting movies at precisely the right time. I often listened to a shortwave radio to synchronize my watch precisely with the Atomic Clock in Colorado. I knew that after I pressed the "start" button on a projector it took 8 seconds before the machine was up to speed and the first frame of the film was on the screen. So, as you can easily conclude, if a film was scheduled to start at 8:00 then I would press that start button at exactly 7:59:52.

I realized that, statistically, nobody in my audiences knew or cared about "the exactly correct time," but I always hoped there was someone out there who shared my obsession and would appreciate hearing his wristwatch chime beeping at exactly the same time that the movie started.

So, while I don't expect many of you to be "time freaks" (like I've been labeled by friends and enemies) I do expect a lot of you to be "precision freaks" (which seems to fit the character of a projectionist). My question is, how do you ensure that the clocks in your lobbies, box offices and projection booths are synchronized so that your customers know when it's time to step out of the popcorn line and find their seats? Or do you care?

If I were working in a theatre today, I'd force the boss to buy a few of those new radio controlled clocks and hang them around the building (because they automatically show the "atomic" time as received from the Colorado master clock), or to buy the less expensive kits and I'd assemble them myself (on company time, of course)... but that's just me.

So... am I the only time freak who ever decided when to press the start button in a booth?

Posted by Kelsey Black (Member # 126) on 11-23-1999, 02:30 PM:

haha, no, I do the same thing... however, not as accurate as you.. I am in a small town right now, and the majority of the clocks in town are set to one time.... the school bells. so I set my wristwatch to the second to the school bell, and then I try to have the first frame projected on screen within about 10-15 seconds of the starting time...
of course there are always exceptions, such as when we sell out early, or there are a few minutes extra of previews (I like the actual movie to start 10 minutes after showtime) and if it's a really slow night and nobody shows until 5 minutes after, or other things that can come up.
generally, about 95% of the time, I start it "right on time"

BTW, I wish I had a "start" button. no automation whatsoever! (not even remote pushbuttons to turn things on/off)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-23-1999, 02:57 PM:

You would love some of the newer automations today. They have a digial clock and you can program the exact start time for the entire week in there. So long as it's threaded, it'll start to the second.

Personally, I try and get the film running about 1-2 minutes early. There's 5 minutes worth of everyone's favorite "Screenvision" ads that no one wants to see anyway, and it prevents a customer who's watch is running fast from complaining. So for me, the traditional countdown timers are more than accurate.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-23-1999, 03:07 PM:

I used to do the same thing; I'd check my watch against WWV. Now, my digital cell phone displays a very accurate clock (I've checked it against WWV and a GPS system we were testing at my day job.)

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 11-23-1999, 05:00 PM:

I too, must admit to a somewhat retentive obsession with correct time. I have set my alarm watch to go off at five minutes before 1:00 P.M. (to give me time to get to the car radio to check my Timex against the Dominion time signal broadcast at 1:00 PM daily on C.B.C.)
It was, therefore with great confidence, that I set the time on all the CPA-10 computers in a complex I installed in the Laval section of Montreal, a few years ago. It just so happened that management had scheduled all theatres to start their first show at 1:00 P.M.
Proudly, I watched as all ten theatres started up at exactly 1:00. The pride was short-lived, however as they all shut down five seconds later due to a blown fuse in the main supply panel. Seems the fuse couldn't take the inrush of all xenons striking at the same time. Oh well.

Posted by Ed Johnson (Member # 94) on 11-24-1999, 12:15 AM:

It's interesting that you should mention syncronizing the clocks in the lobby. At the 15-plex where I have worked (a 3 year old theatre) the lobby and hallways are completely free of clocks. In fact, there is not a single clock in view of a customer. When I first started working there I mentioned it to a manager. I was told that when the building was built there were plans to install clocks in the lobby but the corporation wouldn't allow it. I guess the theory is that if a customer doesn't know the time they won't not know whether they are late for their movie. Thus, they won't feel any pressure to rush to the theatre and will be more likely to stand in a line for the consession stand. I don't know if this what actually happened, but I guess it would agree with normal corporate sentiment: profit, profit, profit.

It does get annoying having to constantly tell watch-less customers what time it is.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-24-1999, 06:06 AM:

We have the Christie CA21 automations, and each unit has its own individual clock. We set them to the atomic clock every month or so. Just so long as the timer was set to start at the correct time (which does not always happen, due to the fact that we are far too stupid to convert the 12 hour time our schedules use to the 24 hour time the clock uses), the movie will start EXACTLY on time. Some of the CA21 clocks tend to drift a bit fast or slow, depending on the unit, which is weird.

What I wish I had was one central clock that all of the automations would be tied into. Would make changing from daylights saving time and back a snap.

I used to always start my movies 1 minute early when I worked at United Artists where we didn't have any timers. We had STRONG barcode automations. At my present company we don't have quite as many ads, just Coke, MoviePhone and Hollywood online. So we start them on time. I don't really see much of a need to start them early to avoid complaints, because if a movie DOES NOT start on time, people always wait at least 10 to 15 minutes before complaining anyway!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-29-1999, 01:41 PM:

I call 1-900-410-TIME.

That's the atomic clock at the National Naval Observatory in Maryland (I THINK it's in MD.)

Yes, It's a 900 number but it's only 50 cents a minute. They charge you for it because they have to use special phone switches to minimize the time delay in the phone lines. It only takes me one or two minutes to set my watch. My watch stays accurate for about 2-3 months in the summer and 1-2 in the winter. (Temperature affects the quartz time base, ya know!) I reset it when it gets 30 seconds off.

I can say with 90% certainty that my watch is no more than +/- 30 sec. to the REAL time. I have actually won bets on this.

I feel that 30 sec is the level of precision that makes the most sense...

1) MOST people when asked the time will round off to the 5 minutes. SOME people will round off to the 1 munute. VERY FEW people will go the the second.

2) You can't set your watch any closer than about a second, because of the time delay in the phone lines or radio AND because you can't press the button on your watch any faster.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-29-1999, 03:35 PM:

You can call 303-499-7111 and get the "official" time from an atomic clock for free. I think that it's the National Bureau of Standards' clock ,but I'm not really sure offhand.

At the theatre, we just had a little button in the back of the theatre; it was connected to a doorbell in the booth. When it was time to start the show, one of the ushers would ring the bell and I would dim the lights and start the film. Usually we ran about 5-10 minutes late (single-screen small-town art-house), but we also didn't run more than one or two trailers per show.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-29-1999, 03:44 PM:

Man if there was a doorbell device in my booth, I'm sure I would have killed many ushers by now because you know they would abuse it to no end. They just love ringing the loud clanging bell in the elevator as it is. Kids.

Posted by Stephen Winner (Member # 8) on 11-29-1999, 09:11 PM:

We have been using walkie-talkies for much of our communication. The box office can inform me if we have a real blockbuster, and they are having a hard time moving everyone in on time and such, or if there's a long line at the popcorn. Since it's 4 flights of steps up to our booth, if an usher sees a minor picture problem, only detectible from the front row or something, he can notify me by radio. Works good for security purposes too, like if a laser pointer is spotted, an usher will radio me to raise the lights and stop the film!

Anybody else using radios or intercoms in their theaters?

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 11-30-1999, 04:29 AM:

We have radios. One channel is for all the floor activity, the other is for the booth.

Of course, being the last of the old style Cinemark Tinseltowns, we also have the talking trashcans.. I swear, if I ever catch the ushers who broadcast the trashcan over the booth channel, I will hurt them...

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 11-30-1999, 04:33 AM:

quote:
Yes, It's a 900 number but it's only 50 cents a minute

Cheapest & probably most accurate is to listen to a local radio station. Top of the hour network newscasts usually start dead on the second. Find a station running CBS news for best results: when you hear the BING, that's x:00:00. Network news with only vox at the top of the cast may be off as the announcer inhales, swallows, or runs back from the bathroom.

Beware of some talk stations that run everything (including net feeds) through a delay.

Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 11-30-1999, 11:47 AM:

We use radios to communicate between the booth and the floor in our 8-plex. Works out pretty well until we catch a random bit of conversation from the truckers passing by on the interstate next to the theatre. lol

As for times at our theatre, don't even get me started. Our box office has one time, concession stand another, and the manager has his own time. I decided a while back to go by the managers time. Everything decision he makes, he goes by HIS watch. So if I'm using any other time standard I'm going to be too slow or too fast.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-30-1999, 12:29 PM:

At my new theatre we are going to avoid using radios. We are getting a new phone from Siemens that has one base station and up to 8 handsets. The handsets can talk to one another. Now all we have to do is figure out how to keep the employees off of the phone. That shouldn't be too hard in a small five-plex.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-30-1999, 03:27 PM:

Awwwww, those infernal talking trash cans are still around?

I opened the Hollywood USA in Garland, TX and we had the first ones there. Sooooooooooo annoying!

How did you convince your managers to use channel 2 for the booth? ALL large theaters with radios should do that.

Posted by Erick Ojeda (Member # 216) on 11-30-1999, 05:08 PM:

We use walkie talkies at the theater I work at. Usually what happens is the box office employee has one walkie talkie, and I have the other. She calls up to me if we have sold for a particular movie, so I can go get the particualr projector running the film ready. The walkie talkies are also used when we have problems. Usually during a walk in, I am upstairs threading, and it is up to the box office employee to call up in case there is a problem, or someone needs change. It works out pretty well. I work at a four screen theater, so I'm sure larger theaters have more people running around with walkie talkies. : )

Posted by Wallace Logan (Member # 225) on 11-30-1999, 06:40 PM:

I am also time obsessed thanks to Rick Long
and his instatlation of three CPA 10 and
four SPA 7s. I set my watch to the National reasherch council of canadas atomic clock.
this is a Cineplex Odeon theater and we run
at any one time up to 15 minites of trailers.
I always start on time for thoughs early bird
who watch their watches.

------------------

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-30-1999, 07:03 PM:

That other non-900 phone number is for the National Inst. of Standards & Technology. (N.I.S.T.) It is in Colorado, I believe. I don't use it becasue it's farther away from me. Also, I don't know if they have the phone switches that minimize the delay in the lines. (They probably do.) I figure by the time I'm done paying long distance phone bills, it all balances out.

Who decides what time to start the movie? Well, quite often, it's a "manager" who just went out an bought a $1000 Rolex but who's too stupid to set it to the right time!
Seriously, all of our 'guys' keep pretty accurate time on their watches. They don't hassle us much about it.

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 11-30-1999, 10:59 PM:

I have worked in a couple of theatres that used Walkie Talkies. At one place, they are a very helpful tool. At another place, they were a huge annoyance, because the floor staff abused them.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 11-30-1999, 11:37 PM:

Actually, we started using channel 2 for booth when we opened..

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-01-1999, 12:25 AM:

As far as I'm concerned, radios are just a big pain in the butt. All of the ushers and concession kids try to talk at once. It makes nothing but noise. When you want to call somebody for an important message, you can't get through all the cross-talk. The booth is noisy enough for me wothout all that dumb chatter! I just turn the volume down and tell people to call me on the phone, sometimes.

It's not the radios. It's the people on the other end who don't know how to use them...

For example:

...OOTH!...prob...<squack>...theater...<buzz>teen!!!!...<BUZZ>McDonalds.

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 12-01-1999, 02:47 AM:

Radios can be very helpful, if used correctly and kept out of the hands of idiots. At my theatre, channel 1 is used for the management staff while channel 2 is reserved for the booth. The only persons who are issued a radio are the projectionist, of course, any managers, at most two, the box office and the concession supervisor. Anyone who needs to reach someone else has to go through one of these, supposedly, responsible people.

-Mike

Posted by Stephen Jones 1 (Member # 114) on 12-01-1999, 06:14 AM:

We use walkie-talkies here at my theatre and they work out great. Of course the rule here is if you have to ask more than one question or require more than one answer you have to use the phones. I hate it when people carry out conversations over the radio. Also, don't say anything over the radio that you wouldn't say to a customer. We also have the talking trashcans and every once in a while you'll here a "Yummy, Got any more?" over the radio.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-1999, 12:01 AM:

We used to use Ch. 1 for 'downstairs' and Ch. 2 for 'upstairs' but people would forget what channel they were on and couldn't get hold of people. People just stopped using Ch. 2 except when they want to have a longer conversation without a lot of crosstalk. Sometimes they use Ch 2 for 'privacy' but one of our booth guys figured out that you can make your radio scan both channels.

I really do like having a radio but it's all the people who don't know how to use them that make it a pain. Besides, people can call you up and bother you with stupid questions!

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 12-02-1999, 12:27 AM:

Randay, do you guys have the SP-50s? If so, how do you get them to scan both channels?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-1999, 01:00 AM:

I'm not sure.

The left button on the Motorola SP-50 (Radius) is supposed to turn the "PL" feature on and off. That's the "subaudible squelch" (C.T.C.S.S. for radio geeks.) If that's on, your radio will only receive other transmissions that have the same "PL Code". ("PL" is supposed to stand for "Private Line", or something) That way 2 or 3 different people can carry on conversations simultaneously. If the yellow LED stays lit for about 5 seconds after you transmit, PL is OFF (We can receive the Wal-Mart down the street when it's off.) If you take your radio to another Cinemark, both of you should turn it OFF. Cinemark has the same freq. for all it's theatres but different "PL Codes".

The right button is supposed to be the "Option" key. Pressing it will cycle you through all the options programmed into the radio. (High / Low transmit power, normally) Our guy was fooling around with his radio and he says that he held the option button in for about 10 seconds. After that, pressing the button makes the green LED flash continuously. When it does, it will receive both channels. I'm not sure, but I think it will transmit on the last channel that it received on. I'll have to experiment on that one. I'm not sure that's the whole story, though. I think this radio was mis-programmed by the dealer, somehow. He just stumbled into it by accident.

We don't tell anybody about it. Somebody will want it for themselves if they find out.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-02-1999, 01:10 AM:

Gee, I can sit in the parking lot and listen to your walkie talkies or phones on my scanner radio.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-1999, 01:43 AM:

MAYBE you can. These radios are FM. Your average scanner is AM. My guess is that you have one of those really cool 'trunk tracker' scanners. (I'm jealous) If you do you might be able to snag a transmission and save it to memory.

You STILL may be able to snag a transmission, however. There's such a thing as "envelope detection" that might allow you to get a lock on an FM signal with an AM receiver. It uses a peculiarity of the way FM is transmitted to allow it. It works only at short range.

I could tell you more but that'll take all day.... Besides I love telling people just enough information to drive them nuts, sometimes!

Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 12-03-1999, 08:07 AM:

We have a set of four Motorola radios that we couldn't do without on weekends-one for the manager, one for the projectionist, one at the box, and one at the door. Nobody abuses them, and we're able to relay to the box when a late show is ready to seat, the manager can tell the booth to hold a show for a few minutes if there's a logjam at the stand, and if there's a disaster in the booth, the projectionist can call for help. I also know that our frequency can be picked up by scanners, but who the hell would want to monitor it?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-03-1999, 09:38 AM:

We tried the radios, and they were a pain. We found that the "page" feature on the phone system works better. We have phones all over the place, so this seems to work better for us.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-03-1999, 08:49 PM:

I instigated the use of walkie talkies in my ex-theater. I had three purchased. One for the projectionist, one for the box office and another for the duty manager. This worked VERY well.

Then the General manager thought they were SUCH a good idea, he went out and bought 5 more. One for him, one for the director's secretary, one for his dog, one for the accountant and another to randomly give to anyone else who could crank up a bit of annoying chatter and render the whole system useless.

Kept under control, they are invaluable and a great solution to a large complex's communication difficulties. But, it's very easy to stuff up the whole idea and end up with a useless system because people will just turn them down so they don't have to listen to the moronic chatter.

Posted by Kenn Fong (Member # 118) on 12-03-1999, 10:04 PM:

One of our local artists fashioned a clock for the snack bar using an empty reel and the works from a thrift store clock. It works great except our manager surmised that some of our patrons but especially most of our employees would not be smart enough to read an analog clock face without numbers... so he had the artist put numbers on it.

Perhaps such a clock -- sans numbers of course -- would make a nice addition to your booth.

------------------
Kenn Fong
http://qwertyuiop.net
Screenwriter's Home Page

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-03-1999, 10:40 PM:

A friend of mine made me a clock out of a Kodak slide carousel with the mechanism in the middle and filled it up with old slides. It looked great, but wasn't one to set your watch by.

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 12-04-1999, 01:45 AM:

As long as you're making neat clocks, you might as well pay a little extra for a radio controlled movement. There's a company called Klockit which sells them for around $25 or less. Suddenly, your homemade clock can be exactly correct!

(Can you tell what I do for a hobby?)

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-04-1999, 02:28 AM:

Randy:
I have 4 scanners: Uniden BC-8500, Uniden BC-200XLT, Radio Shack Pro-2042 (with computer interface conversion kit), and Radio Shack Pro-51. All pick up cell phones.
Most of the radios people have been using in the theaters are off the shelf business types which usually transmit on the colored dot freqs (low power, but good up to a mile away). Probably transmit on one of these:
151.625, 154.570, 154.600, 464.550, 464.500, 469.500, 469.550, or 151.9550.
And don't forget I can listen to most cordless phones (except digital or Spread Spectrum).

I mention this because the bad guys can listen to your operations and know when you've got money ready to deposit. NEVER, EVER mention anything about money, deposits, or being nearly alone at the theater on the air.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-1999, 11:57 AM:

Ken,

(SIGH!....)

Every DAY!!!

Here's the ususal chain of event's...

"Manager!... There's a guy here to pick up the MONEY!" (The armored car pick up)

"Okay, I'll be right there..."

MY answer is "...so will every crook in a two mile radius!)

I've actually shown people that you can do it with a cheap RadioShack.

They just don't GETit!

PS: I KNEW I would be jealous!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-30-2001, 11:25 AM:

For those who want to use the web to set there clocks here is the NRC in Ottawa Canada's atomic clock link http://www.nrc.ca/inms/time/cesium.shtml

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 08-30-2001, 12:50 PM:

Yeah, but it keeps going "Eh?" after giving the time...

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-30-2001, 01:34 PM:

You have to feed it beer and bacon sandwiches

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 08-30-2001, 05:33 PM:

At my place, we synchronize the timers on the slide projectors & start the projectors based on that time. We have a time clock that we could use, but we got it from a closed UA theater it's not the most reliable piece of electronics (It'll hardly punch the cards!)

We use FRS radios, but only for calling the box office to see what auditoriums have sold for during the last showtimes, and for telling ushers to change the masking (we have the rope & pulley system for screen measking). More over, the radios don't work near the projectors because the motors give off interference.
With this system we can get everything started on time, no problems.

Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 08-30-2001, 08:03 PM:

For timings, i don't wear a watch, usually i go by the clock by the sweety counter. There are so many other considerations anyway. From what i gather from film-tech, is it true that over there you regard patrons coming in during ads&trailers as latecomers?

Posted by Danny Hart (Member # 659) on 08-30-2001, 08:48 PM:

Greg, I know what you mean. Radio controlled clocks appealed to me because you could buy one, put the battery in, stick it on the wall and forget about it. You could then rely on it to show you the EXACT time without adjustment.

I bought one for our booth and we agreed it would be the time all projectionists adhered to.

One Saturday night, during a late-night movie, I was on duty by myself for the "late show" and the Duty Manager was up in the booth enjoying some "refreshment" with me, which we regularly did when on duty together for a late-night. I left him in the chair for a minute while I went to the fridge and when I came back, I saw a look of amazement on his face - the clock was changing from Grenwich Mean Time to British Summer Time by itself. I explained the concept to him and he promptly bought three of them for the public areas of the cinema.

And, Greg, I also had to make new faces for them - with the logo and Company font! Easily done with the right software.

Posted by Danny Hart (Member # 659) on 08-30-2001, 08:52 PM:

By the way, the makers of Atomic Clock movements claim that they are "accurate to one second in a million years".

I wonder what they'd say if I asked them to prove it...

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 08-31-2001, 02:08 AM:

Gordon said "You have to feed it beer and bacon sandwiches"

Now that sounds like a real sandwich.

So tell me do you feed the pigs on beer like they do with Kobe beef or do you soak the bread in beer before you make the sandwich?

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 08-31-2001, 10:06 AM:

In the nearly two years since this thread started, you can imagine that there have been many new, even more "cool" clocks introduced... and if you look carefully you'll find the prices have improved a lot too. Plus, lots of your average customers have greater acccess to "the correct time" now thanks to things like digital cell phones, caller ID boxes and VCRs with automatic time settings. So... now we can all agree about what time it is.

Next month, Casio is introducing a radio controlled wrist watch for North America. It's only $50 in the catalog I saw. For that price, it almost seems like required equipment for the precisionally-obsessed projectionist.

Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 09-01-2001, 04:47 PM:

I set my booth clock (and the downstairs one, sometimes) to my VoiceStream Cell phone. The phone gets it's time from the telephone switch. The switch gets it's time from ???. Oh well.

However, the time seems to be very consistent, it matches my PC which sets it's time to Los Alamos National Labratories (using Sidekick and esavax.esa.lanl.gov). Any customers complain about our starting time, I just show them my phone and they take it for gospel. (After all, you can't argue with the phone company, can you?? )

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-01-2001, 06:26 PM:

The phone company usually uses what's called a "stratum" level clock to synchronize their own signals. The clock is rated 1 thru 5 (1 being the most accurate.) Your local phone office probably has a Level 5 Stratum clock; a large telephone switching center (sometimes referred to as a Class 5 office) has a Level 2 Stratum clock. I think there was only one Level 1 Stratum clock, located in Illinois or some midwest state.

Although, recently, many telephone companies have started using the GPS (global positioning system) to replace the stratum clock system.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 09-02-2001, 11:21 AM:

You can set your computer clock to NIST.

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 09-06-2001, 09:07 AM:

Wow. You sure are a "time freak" but that might be a good thing, eh?

I set my watch weekly by the CBC 2pm international time signal (I'm a Canuck, eh) I start my performance according to my watch even though the computer downstairs is 5-8 minutes slower than I am. This is done because I assume that most of the patrons have the correct time on their watches.

No automated starts in my booth. On busy nights I can see into the lobby area and use my own judgment and often hold a start for 3 or 4 minutes so a few more patrons can get to their seats. I do this less lately because we now stagger our show starts by 10 minutes

Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 11-27-2001, 06:31 PM:

You would love to be here in Japan. In this country of on-time trains and planes the correct time is paramount. I have won bets myself while riding trains with friends. I would set my watch to WWVH or JJY shortwave time tones then make a bet as to how many seconds til the train doors close. Won every time.

We have had the radio controlled clocks over here for many years. Community and plublic places all have a central receiver and then a bunch of slave clocks thoughout a complex. Nowdays they use two new transmitters on 50 and 40 MHz, one in Fukushima and one in Kyushu and they cover the entire nation without fading. Much better than the noisy signals of shortwave WWVH or JJY.

I just bought a new analog clock last week (while shopping in Tokyo) and it hangs in my living room. If it is "listening" to the broadcast it will give three green flashes on the LED at the top of the minute. If it is "deaf" at the time it will flash red on the LED. Only problem with these is that they will not work well in some steel and concrete structures like our theaters. Casio has the wristwatch model on sale here for about $75.

Two other clocks that "listen" are my cell phone and satellite receiver.

Bill BuncH
Misawa, Japan

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-28-2001, 12:46 PM:

I just caught this thread for the first time when it was bumped up to the top yesterday. Here are my comments.

Every Regal I've been to uses radios. We give them to the ushers so then can tell the door when theaters are cleaned, so that door knows when to let patrons in. No theater I've worked at uses a separate channel for the booth.

I'm not anal about starting movies to the exact second. As long as it starts within a minute, I'm happy. I used to go by my watch, which I set to my computer, which is updated every day by a program called NIST Time (more about that next). Then somone changed our booth clock by a few minutes and put a note next to it saying something like "this is the time the box office computers are set to and your are to start movies by this clock, not by the time on your wrist." I can tell you that it was off by about 5 minutes!! I didn't start movies by that clock until they changed it to make it closer to the actual time. Now it's only off by a minute or so, which I can live with.

I while ago I downloaded a program called NIST Time. It sounds like the program mentioned above is similar. I use the Task Scheduler to run the program several times a day, so my computer clock is almost always accurate.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-28-2001, 01:24 PM:

Tsk tsk tsk. Boxoffice computers should run NTP (network time protocol): http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/

There's no excuse for printing the wrong time on the tickets.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-28-2001, 03:51 PM:

Scott said: There's no excuse for printing the wrong time on the tickets."

Do you mean showtimes? They print the correct showtimes. I'm talking about the current time that the computer displays.

Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 11-28-2001, 03:57 PM:

The tickets also show the date and time the tickets were bought.

Steven Gorsky

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 12-04-2001, 02:50 PM:

Atomic Time
R.C Precision
Atomic Watches FAQ
Casio Waveceptor

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-28-2005, 09:56 PM:

It has been 1151 days since the last post.

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-28-2005, 09:56 PM:

I thought it would be interesting to point out the troubles with this for Regal theatres (like mine) who run digital preshows with DCN projectors.

They give us a very small window during which we can hit start. They keep track of early starts (anything before a frozen screen appears) and late starts (letting the frozen screen stay for 45 seconds or more). We have an "official" DCN clock on a computer screen in the booth, which you'd think would make it easy to be accurate. But the clock is terrible, and is usually a minute or two fast. So the idea of starting shows exactly on time, as much as I'd like to be able to, is impossible for DCN theatres...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-29-2005, 04:40 AM:

[ 06-15-2005, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-29-2005, 10:41 AM:

Chris, that sure is a tough situation. Is the clock on the computer screen tied into the box office or DCN system somehow? If it is, then no matter how much it's "off" it's probably still "right" for them in Knoxville. I would start the shows by that clock. If something "happens" where you get in "trouble" for starting the shows late or early, point out that clock and say you've been starting them according to it like you've been told. Maybe mention that it's been off an "nothing has been done" about it. Knowing "those types" in the corporate world though, they won't care since you're replaceable. That's why you should keep a running tally of safety and fire violations for if/when you get written up to "present" [Wink]

Say not only do they not set the clock right, but they overlook these too...

And how does that work for multiple starts? When I worked for a Regal 18, we'd sometimes have 2 or 3 (only once had 4) films starting at the same time. They were ALWAYS on opposite sides of the booth. Unless I RAN (safety violation) to start the other one(s) (for which I would have to dash away after the first image hit the screen) the other show(s) would start late no matter what. If I stood there and checked the screen/sound properly, the other shows would be starting a minute or longer late.

To me, this practice is saying that it is imperative that THE ADS are played properly and THE ADS are started/ended on time and you should check THE ADS to make sure they're on the screen correctly and the sound is working, but you'd better START THE FILM and RUN away to the other projector before the flow between THE ADS and the film is interrupted for too long. THAT'S why I often sit through an out-of-focus (or out of frame or out of something else) trailer pack at a Regal until I get up and complain. [Frown]

Maybe if they wrote people up or fired them for damaging film or a flawed presentation instead of starting a show 45 seconds late, they might actually gain a decent presentation.

At least they DID animate the last screen on the 2TW2EN2TY so that it's not just "frozen" like something broke. [thumbsup]

to REG in that respect.

=TMP=

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 01-29-2005, 11:43 AM:

Double starts? I just walk fast to the other start. The way our theater is set up, we have the old 14 plex front hallway and the 7 screen addition in the back. So I just love it when I have a double start of 8 and 18. It's one end of the building to the other. I gave up running to the second start because it's really not worth it. I have actually never gotten "chewed out" for having a late start, only sometimes will a customer complain that the "projector is frozen" if I didn't start it in time.

Thomas, the animation stops after about 45 seconds.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 01-29-2005, 12:40 PM:

No one gets bent out of shape about the late starts for double ups. Just be carefull not to get any early starts!

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 01-29-2005, 01:05 PM:

Yes, a few times, I just hit Start out of habit and OOPS! It was in the policy!

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-29-2005, 01:29 PM:

They do keep logs of early and late starts...we get them sent to us every week, with DM comments on them. They dont seem to really care about late starts, but early starts are a bigger deal.

Monte: it's not quite as bad as that. Of course, this could just be due to the fact that our DM is not what you would consider a "booth guy". He's much more concerned with per caps and payroll and such. But he does make comments on his weekly Early/Late start email to the theatres with more than 1 early start. And no, I'm not certified yet, but should be by May if all goes to plan.

I usually don't have to deal with starting two movies at once (as I've pointed out the disadvantages to my GM, who does the bookings), but on the rare occasion that I do, I usually end up starting one, running to start the other, do my normal checks on the second one, then go back to the first one to make sure it's okay. That's the best way I can think of to ensure that both are running okay. It definitely sucks though.

As for the clock...they are not tied into box office at all. It's just DCN time basically. Like I said, you'd think something like that would make it easier to start everything exactly on time, but that clock is so off that I never even glance at it anymore. I just set my watch to be at the correct time when the frozen screen comes on, and I've found this to be a much better way to make sure I'm there on time. So my watch basically replaces the "official" clock. The only good thing though is that usually when I check my watch against box office, the two are pretty close...typically within a few minutes. So I guess in the end, its not so bad.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-29-2005, 02:24 PM:

AMC almost has it right.

Our clocks are ultimately syncronized to an atomic clock via an Internet time source. We have an 8 second "Outtro" snipe ("Thanks for watching!") which allows us to time our starts pretty easily. After the outtro, we have a two minute looping music bed and animation that plays during which time the little control box beeps to alert the projectionist that it's time to start.

Some problems we face: Just because the clock is right, doesn't mean that the show ends exactly when its supposed to. So setting the timers is sloppy unless you purposefully set it 20 seconds later than the start time and count on the animation playing for a few seconds.

Also, if there is only ten minutes between shows, and the pre show is 15 minutes long, the whole thing plays instead of just the last 10 minutes, making your feature start potentially five minutes late. But, the shows start on time here, so the commercials get axed at the show time if that happens. Which is unfortunate for somebody I guess, but not our customers. Hopefully, AMC will fix that down the road.

There are a few little quirks with our system, but all things considered, its not bad. Being a computer engineer, and having change-over experience, and working in a radio station that had to time things perfectly, I have ideas to make it better, but I'm sure no one will ask me what they are. [Razz]

BTW, AMC projectionists, find yourself a watch that sets its own time, like the Timex 1440 radio controlled watch. You might find that helpful. [Wink]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-29-2005, 03:07 PM:

quote: Chris Brown
fact that our DM is not what you would consider a "booth guy

...is why there is that chain of command from manager to ensure that his staff is well-trained upstairs so the DM doesn't have to worry in this department.

-Monte

[ 11-09-2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-29-2005, 04:24 PM:

WTF?! [Confused]

If there is a computer generated report which automatically gets sent to HQ detailing what time every movie starts and ends then why the hell do they even BOTHER having employees in the booth?!

Why don't they just put a timer on every projector and have a "manager" thread the machines?

It would save them what?... Maybe a whole DOLLAR in payroll once you account for the cost of the technology!

[fu]

Empty suits! [fu]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-29-2005, 05:18 PM:

quote:
why the hell do they even BOTHER having employees in the booth?!

That's why CrapaPlex Odeon had the CPA-10 automations in their X-90 consoles in a lot of their early buildings just for that reason: Clock starts.

Whereas these automations had an actual timer assembly inside to program all of the shows for that day and week, to whereas the floorstaff joker's responsiblities were to lace up the machines and head back downstairs and hope things upstairs ran by themselves. - in which they didn't half of the time, had enormous problems, to actual cancellations even for a few days.

-Monte

[ 11-09-2005, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-29-2005, 05:34 PM:

Memo to self: never work for Regal. And don't work for AMC again. (not that either of these will ever happen)

Seriously, if they're so concerned about late starts and early starts, why not just have the computer connected to the film automation so that it starts the film when the video crap ends. Problem solved. At the very least, they should configure the film automation to not respond when the "START" button is pressed until after the computer says that the ads have finished being shown. This should be defeatable in case something goes wrong, and then the only item that would need to be reported to their home office is that the interlock (no pun intended) was defeated and that the system probably needs maintenance as a result.

Seriously, who designs this crap and writes these policies? No wonder they have trouble getting good employees....

(More off-topic comments: I wrote a letter to AMC about a month ago complaining about their new video pre-show advertising. They haven't responded yet. Their customer service stinks too.)

Posted by Mike Amici (Member # 2939) on 01-29-2005, 05:55 PM:

Just out of curiosity, what is a "talking trashcan"??

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-29-2005, 06:05 PM:

Monte: REG does indeed do some stupid things. Whenever our DM comes to visit the theatre, all he cares about in the booth is whether there are excessive shoe rubber marks on the floor! He knows how to check behind a framing bulb and inside the lamphouse, but thats about it.

I dont believe that our Automation is capable of starting by itself like that (I could be wrong). If it were, then I'm sure that's what they'd be doing. Oh well...keeps my job safe for awhile anyways!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-29-2005, 10:18 PM:

With the correct application of a pair of wire clippers and a soldering iron, just about ANY automation is capable of remote/timer starting. You just have to know where to put the relay or timer circuit.

When I worked at Tinseltown (Cinemark) we rigged up a remote start/kill switch for our CFS consoles. A couple pushbutton switches were mounted inside a Radio Shack projecto box and a 100 foot long piece of multi-conductor telephone cable was hooked into the start/stop switches with some miniature alligator clips.

That way, when we pre-screened prints we could hook up the remote and pull the cable through the port window so that it could be right next to us in the seats. If something happened with the machine or the print we could immediately kill the projector. That would save us from having to "jet" up the stairs at top speed to hit the button in time to prevent damage.

If we could do THAT to the CFS colsole... the monstrosity it is... it would be TRIVIAL to do the same to a good one. Heck, the Comp. Eng. "TA-10" even has terminals for a remote "Start/Stop" switch built right in! I don't see why other, even better, systems couldn't have the same.

Seriously! Why DON'T they automate the starts?!
And, like Scott said, they should have manual overrides or something. Just replace the START/STOP buttons with a 3 position key switch, similar to an automobile ignition... "OFF"-"RUN"-"START".
It would take a "manager" with a key to override the system.

It could take almost any one of us just a few hours to design such a system and a few days to put it in place.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-30-2005, 01:53 AM:

quote: Randy Stankey
know where to put the relay or timer circuit.

..prob an easy guess to put it in parallel with the start/run button.

quote:
If it were, then I'm sure that's what they'd be doing. Oh well...keeps my job safe for awhile anyways!

I'm sure that you're safe in this area, since REG wants their presentations startups to be manually done at all times, since they know of bad starts, out-of-frame beginnings, focus problems, et.al.

That's why they have certifiers - to see if you can start the show manually instead of hitting the "START" or "RUN" button. This is in the 1st level of certification, and the most important.

(little tips for you, Chris for preparation:

1st level - is basic booth operation-knowledge of sound and lens formats, knowledge of manual starts incase of automation takes a dump, THREAD in FRAME!!, then small, stupid stuff that isn't necessary at all, like if you say that scope is 2.35/1, they will tell you that it's 2.39/1 (brother, let's get pickey!..I bamboozled my certifier told him of all of the scope ratios of 2.66, 2.55, 2.1, which is SuperScope, 2.20/1 for 70mm, et.al.).

2nd level - is knowing how to make and break the films. How to do a splice (their way).. et.al. ...

3rd level - is machine maintenance-knowledge of tearing down a machine, cleaning adjusting and putting the thing back together

4th level (optional) - is the knowledge of changing and focusing a bulb).

Plus, with 4th level, you can make adjustments within the CP-500 processor to change output levels, change between standard and custom format and do adjustments within these formats, do "Dolby Tones" with the 1kz loop., et.al.

4th level almost gets your foot into the Technical Services area, for the REG tekkies love 4th level operation personnel, since they figure that the 4th level candidates DO have some brains and common sense after all.

Whereas if you're not at this level, whoever sets the CP-500 levels, these levels are to be left alone-"no touchie" or big write-up.

You get to 4th level, you will the opportunity to garnish a better wage than if you were only at the 1st or 2nd level.

Good luck and thx - Monte
- Monte

[ 11-09-2005, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 01-30-2005, 02:14 AM:

I've never had too much of a problem regarding starting films on time and in the 2wenty's small time window. We also have a clock on the main DCN computer which is and always has been off, usually by about 2 to 3 minutes. It can be inconvenient at times, but as long as you know when a film is scheduled to start, just be next to it and ready to go about a minute beforehand, and it's all gravy.

I say that, but recently, the 2wenty ran about 4 minutes PAST the advertised start time for the feature. Say #9 is supposed to start at 10:00 pm. I'm chillin on the other side of booth, waiting until my watch says 10:03 so I can go over and start the film. That wasn't very cool at all. But they did cut it back, so it's all good for now.

I've never had any trouble with corporate messing around with booth stuff at my theatre. My DM understands that I know how to do my job, and lets me do it. Hmmm, with everyone else's comments, maybe I'm the lucky one of the group.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 01-30-2005, 10:49 AM:

After reading all this [bs]

that the people on this thread go through regarding show starts, I'm reminded that it's nice to be an independent.

We do not run adds and have no pre-show presentation to deal with. We have an atomic clock in the operations center of our booth, and operators simply set their watches to it.

Shows start 5 minutes before the advertised showtime, with a trailer pack and policy trailer that varries in length from 10 (minimum) to 14 (maximum) minutes. Hence, the feature ALWAYS starts 5-9 minutes after the advertised time, unless, of course, something unforseen happens. [Eek!]

Our patrons have grown accustomed to this, and complaints are extremely rare. As far as double starts go, we take our time. Better to be a minute late on the second start of a double. Of course, the greatest sin would be to misread the schedule and start too early.

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 01-30-2005, 12:54 PM:

Emma, I called and complained to the NCC or whatever they call it and asked why the starts were 3-4 minutes late. They told me that it was supposed to be that way while they had the "Thanks and Giving" ad running. The start time began before the ad, so it would have been the same running time as with rolling stock.

Does this explanation make sense? Reading back over it I don't know if it does!

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-30-2005, 04:20 PM:

Cory I know what you mean. It was during that period where the thing was running over so much. We called too, and they said that they supposedly sent an email to us about it telling us that it would do that. It was annoying, until we got used to it. I was glad when we got rid of that Thanks and Giving PSA though.

Monte: thanks for the tips! Actually the main thing I worry about is that I'm doing my certification down here at school at another REG theatre, and I'm going to have to learn how to use Christies to do it. My theatre at home is all Simplex. Long story short, our certifier at home hasnt been up to do certifications in almost 2 years, and since our DM, like I said, isnt a booth guy, we still cant get him to come down. But thankfully down here at school there is a certifier at the theatre here, thus why I'm getting it done down here. I could probably easily get through level 4 with Simplex, but its going to be a bit more difficult this way unfortunately. Good learning experience I suppose though. Thanks again Monte!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-30-2005, 08:29 PM:

quote: Chris Brown
going to have to learn how to use Christies to do it

..you'll like the Christies, for they are such a more simpler machine to work with than the Simplexes. P35GPS are so easy to thread, and you might even learn how to do belt changes, Ultramittent changeouts, and shutter timings on the P35's. Plus, you'll notice....NO OIL LEAKS! No drips around the machine, nor on the floor in front. Just CLEAN!

Even changing bulbs in a SLC console is nothing compared to a Strong console - no leads to worry about dangling from the ends of the bulbs. Just screw them in, attach the positive lead from the igniter and there you have it.

You should breeze through the Christie certifications.

Good luck and congrats when you get your certification levels that you attain.

-thx Monte

Posted by Emma Tomiak (Member # 1862) on 01-30-2005, 10:50 PM:

Yeah, I got the email about it, but it's still pretty annoying. I hope we don't have another PSA coming up any time soon!

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-31-2005, 01:55 AM:

Good to know Monte, thanks! I wont worry so much now. Having no oil leaks one the floor will be a nice change. Thanks for the tips!

Emma, I'm with you on the PSA's. Actually I didnt mind the Tommy Lee Jones one we had last summer (within a few weeks I was reciting it verbatim with him!), but this one was quite annoying. The 3 or 4 minutes definitely screwed me up a little at first.

I'm guessing we wont have another one till May or so though...probably another WRI.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-31-2005, 03:42 PM:

If everyone is syncronized to the "real" time, it shouldn't be a problem. Fortunately, battery operated "Atomic Clocks" that are syncronized to the NIST time signal from Boulder CO (WWV) have come down in price, and can be purchased for not much more than a regular clock:

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/

quote:
The division broadcasts standard time and frequency signals using radio, Internet, and telephone links. These signals synchronize millions of clocks every day.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-31-2005, 03:59 PM:

John,

Most such WWV clocks, marketed as "Atomic Clocks" or "Moonphase clocks," have absolutely abysmal reception inside most buildings not near windows. I would expect very few theatres would have any luck with them. I know 4 or 5 people who have tried them in their home or their workplace, and only one or two of them have succeeded in making them syncronize, usually by placing them near an outside window.

--jhawk

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-31-2005, 04:44 PM:

A simple long-wire antenna on the roof will fix any WWV reception problem. Rooftop GPS antennas are cheap and easy to do too.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-31-2005, 04:48 PM:

Mumble mumble 50 ohms, etc., etc. I did make an attempt to try to get one to work that way to no avail. Perhaps I was missing something, but mostly I think those clocks are just cheap junk.

GPS clocks are a whole different animal, but I consider them outside consumer price range.

--jhawk

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-31-2005, 07:57 PM:

Since the transmitter is in Colorado and you are in Massachusetts it will be quite a lot harder to get a good signal than somebody in Texas. Yes, I have some difficulty in getting my 5 atomic clocks to receive the signal.

They work best late at night between, say, midnite and 3:00 AM. (Ionosphere is better.) It also helps if you point them directly at Ft. Collins, CO or if you can't figure that out at least point them due west. (If you are in Mass.)

Sometimes when the weather is good I have had my atomic clocks "catch" the time in a matter of minutes. Sometimes it takes a very long time. Hours. If you keep trying you SHOULD be able to make it catch.

However, I do agree with you. Some places are just too far away from the transmitter or are in a bad receiving area. If that's the case, atomic clocks are useless.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-31-2005, 10:29 PM:

At least in Rochester, my atomic clock works fine at home. I double check it with the audio from WWV, and it is right on time. I think they actually work on a very low frequency which penetrates buildings well, rather than shortwave.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-31-2005, 11:20 PM:

WWV transmits within the HF band on 2.5, 5, 10, 15, and 20 MHz. The IRIG time code used by these "atomic" clocks rides on a 100 Hz subcarrier which is transmitted on all of these frequencies. Yes, propagation at these frequencies is affected by atmospherics, time of day, and solar activity. That's why WWV transmits on so many freqs--to provide some redundancy.

A simple horizontal long-wire "clothesline" antenna, roughly oriented for best pull from Colorado, will work well enough to bring a shortwave signal into a shielded building. Longer is better, 50' or more--should be no problem on the roof of a theater building. No need to worry about impedances or calculating 1/x antenna lengths or anything fancy--you're not transmitting. Just solder an insulated lead to one end of the antenna and run it into your booth. Get the end of the lead close and parallel to the clock's antenna (like directly behind the clock if it's hung on a wall). That should provide enough coupling to get the clock receiver to see the subcarrier. Inelegant but simple.

73's from former Technician Plus N7FJF (Funny Japanese Flyer) [Smile]

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-01-2005, 01:03 AM:

Welcome to the world of living by the clock.

It doesn't solve the booth clock problem, but you should get a watch that keeps very good time & check it often against some broadcast source that every hour hits network news at the top of the hour (CBS radio network top of the hour news even has a little "bong" tone at :00). You'll at least be able to keep youself on time, & be able to check a booth clock.

It doesn't have to be an expensive watch, but its accuracy may be anywhere & it's sort of luck of the draw. I have a very inexpensive stainless steel (battery) pocket watch that I bought in a hurry at Wal-Mart when I busted my last nice one, & this thing loses 1 second a year. I am in awe of it. I love it. I take it everywhere. All my "nice" watches are wound down or run down in a trunk at home, & I haven't had them out in 7 years or so.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-01-2005, 10:21 AM:

AFAIK, most consumer "Atomic Clocks" use WWVB, broadcasting on 60 kHz.:

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwvb.htm

quote:
NIST radio station WWVB is located on the same site as WWV near Fort Collins, Colorado. The WWVB broadcasts are used by millions of people throughout North America to synchronize consumer electronic products like wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches. In addition, WWVB is used for high level applications such as network time synchronization and frequency calibrations.

Signal Description
WWVB continuously broadcasts time and frequency signals at 60 kHz. The carrier frequency provides a stable frequency reference traceable to the national standard. There are no voice announcements on the station, but a time code is synchronized with the 60 kHz carrier and is broadcast continuously at a rate of 1 bit per second using pulse width modulation. The carrier power is reduced and restored to produce the time code bits. The carrier power is reduced 10 dB at the start of each second, so that the leading edge of every negative going pulse is on time. Full power is restored 0.2 s later for a binary “0”, 0.5 s later for a binary “1”, or 0.8 s later to convey a position marker. The binary coded decimal (BCD) format is used so that binary digits are combined to represent decimal numbers.

The time code contains the year, day of year, hour, minute, second, and flags that indicate the status of Daylight Saving Time, leap years, and leap seconds. For more details, view the WWVB time code format.

WWVB identifies itself by advancing its carrier phase 45° at 10 minutes after the hour and returning to normal phase at 15 minutes after the hour. If you plot WWVB phase, this results in a phase step of approximately 2.08 microseconds.

Antenna and Transmitters
WWVB uses two identical antennas that were originally constructed in 1962, and refurbished in 1999. The north antenna was originally built for the WWVL 20 kHz broadcast (discontinued in 1972), and the south antenna was built for the WWVB 60 kHz broadcast. The antennas are spaced 857 m apart. Each antenna is a top loaded monopole consisting of four 122-m towers arranged in a diamond shape. A system of cables, often called a capacitance hat or top hat, is suspended between the four towers. This top hat is electrically isolated from the towers, and is electrically connected to a downlead suspended from the center of the top hat. The downlead serves as the radiating element.

Ideally, an efficient antenna system requires a radiating element that is at least one-quarter wavelength long. At 60 kHz, this becomes difficult. The wavelength is 5000 m, so a one-quarter wavelength antenna would be 1250 m tall, or about 10 times the height of the WWVB antenna towers. As a compromise, some of the missing length was added horizontally to the top hats of this vertical dipole, and the downlead of each antenna is terminated at its own helix house under the top hats. Each helix house contains a large inductor to cancel the capacitance of the short antenna and a variometer (variable inductor) to tune the antenna system. Energy is fed from the transmitters to the helix houses using underground cables housed in two concrete trenches. Each trench is about 435 m long.

A computer is used to automatically tune the antennas during icy and/or windy conditions. This automatic tuning provides a dynamic match between the transmitter and the antenna system. The computer looks for a phase difference between voltage and current at the transmitter. If one is detected, an error signal is sent to a 3-phase motor in the helix house that rotates the rotor inside the variometer. This retunes the antenna and restores the match between the antenna and transmitter.

There are three transmitters at the WWVB site. Two are in constant operation and one serves as a standby transmitter that is activated if one of the primary transmitters fail. Each transmitter consists of two identical power amplifiers which are combined to produce the greatly amplified signal sent to the antenna. One transmitter delivering an amplified time code signal into the north antenna system, and one transmitter feeds the south antenna system. The time code is fed to a console where it passes through a control system and then is delivered to the transmitters.

Using two transmitters and two antennas allows the station to be more efficient. As mentioned earlier, the WWVB antennas are physically much smaller than one quarter wavelength. As the length of a vertical radiator becomes shorter compared to wavelength, the efficiency of the antenna goes down. In other words, it requires more and more transmitter power to increase the effective radiated power. The north antenna system at WWVB has an efficiency of about 50.6%, and the south antenna has an efficiency of about 57.5%. However, the combined efficiency of the two antennas is about 65%. As a result, each transmitter only has to produce a forward power of about 38 kW for WWVB to produce its effective radiated power of 50 kW.

Performance
The frequency uncertainty of the WWVB signal as transmitted is less than 1 part in 1012. If the path delay is removed, WWVB can provide UTC with an uncertainty of less than 100 microseconds. The variations in path delay are minor compared to those of WWV and WWVH. When proper receiving and averaging techniques are used, the uncertainty of the received signal should be nearly as small as the uncertainty of the transmitted signal.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-01-2005, 10:35 AM:

I used to have a Timex "BeepWear Pro" watch that functioned as a Skytel pager, and it received its time from the skytel network. Somehow, it even figured out the timezone I was in. It always had a little "NYC" on it when I was in my home area. When I flew out to Hawaii, I had a transfer in San Francisco. I got off the plane in SF, and it had the correct pacific coast time, and it said "LAX". I looked at it after the plane had landed in Hawaii and it had updated itself again and said "HNL". Once I was in Chicago, and it said "CHI". It was using something they called FlexTime. Way freakin cool!

Unfortunately, that watch was stolen and they don't make them anymore. Now I'm stuck with a plain old time signal watch. Boring. [Frown]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 02-01-2005, 12:12 PM:

Heh heh... I shoulda checked on WWVB. Forgot about the 60 kHz service. Gomen. m(_ _)m <-- Japanese emoticon for apologies.

But the antenna stuff still applies. Longer is better. [Big Grin]

I too have some nice old watches that will never see another battery. My current daily watch is a cheap Casio dual-display analog/digital LCD one that I bought in 1989. It gains 3/4 of a second a day and I hack it about once a week. Good enough to navigate planes or run Omnimax theaters with (my shows at Caesars started exactly at published time, to the second). It's that anal-retentive J-blood in me.

Also have a Longines Hour Angle Watch, a modern replica of the one Charles Lindbergh wore when he flew solo across the Atlantic in 1927. It looks great but keeps lousy time so I only wear it for fancy occasions, which is hardly ever anymore.

Nowadays there are atomic watches for less than $50. That's about what I paid for the Casio. Better living through electronics.

[ 05-27-2005, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-01-2005, 01:00 PM:

The watch I have now, which is the Timex 1440 radio controlled watch, was on sale at Target for $24.99.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-06-2005, 04:24 AM:

I have it so easy working for art houses and independents -- single screens all. That doesn't mean I am not as anal-retentive as the best of them, but I don't have to run the length of a football field to start another three projectors all suposedly at the same time (are DMs SO freakin stupid that they do not see this as a physical impossibility?). I really admire you plex guys.

In the big theatre where we had been using the packaged preshow music programs, it was all timed out so that if you started the music at 25min before showtime, then you would be able to hit the screen with the cartoon just as the music ended (having the last cord of the non-sync music playing just under the first sound of the WB cartoon logo music). You were right at the top of the start time, within a few seconds. The preshow had built in cues so you could just let it cue your start sequence.

In the houses that don't use the packaged Preshow Concerts, nevertheless we program cuts from CDs; again, knowing the exact running time of the CD cuts that you've programmed, if you start the CD non-sync so that it ends exactly when the film is scheduled to start, you can hit the screen within a few seconds of the correct time. I made sure the all the CD players are able to display count-down as well as elapsed time; I just look at the time counter and hit the start sequence -- house lights sequence (1/2 House, Credits Level, Show level), the warmers and finally projector start and curtain so that it all times out perfectly when the music is done.

What I hate is when the house is messing with crowds and they want to hold the start time or when some speaker has to blab blab blab before the film and messes up the whole sequence. If that happens, I've taken to going back a few minutes on the last CD cut, fade it back up so that I can still play that cut and get the whole startup sequence to step to the countdown of the CD timer.

As for the atomic clocks. My experience is the same as you guys -- they are piss awful; of the three I bought for the center (all different types), none of them were able to get the signal reliably -- one of them only after days. To me that's not a technology that is ready for market. And the idea of having to get up on the roof to run an extra antenna, well, let's just say, yeah....like THAT's gonna happen any time soon. I just set my digital watch with either one of the dozen internet TimeSet programs or to any broadcast network TV show at the top of the hour. That's close enough.

The college decided against putting them in all over campus a number of years ago because of the threat of theft (three or four years ago those clocks were pretty pricey) -- they can easily be pulled off the walls. So the college in its infinate wisdom went instead with an elaborate master clock system with special clocks in the hallways and rooms used regular AC to drive the clock motor, but a second circuit is used to synchronize the clock hands every hour or so to the master clock someplace in another building on campus. They figured no one would steal these because they will not keep accurate time without the pulsing from the master. Problem is, they needed to have electricians run multi-cables to each and every one of the hundreds of clocks across the entire campus at a mind-boggling cost to tax payers. They could have kept replaceing every stolen atomic clock for the next 50 years before they would come near the cost of installing the master clock system. PLUS, the "synchronized" local clocks are always, ALWAYS wrong....sometimes by 15, 20 minutes. I have no idea what that's about. Some are an hour wrong half the year cause they never get the pulse to go on Daylight time.

To make it even more laughable, the college had a customized clock face made showing a black & white line drawing of its logo. Problem is, the hands of the clock are black, so unless you are standing 3 feet from the clock, you can't see where the hands are pointing for the busy background, except for the second hand which is red. Only problem is, in about 60% of all the clocks, the second hands, for some inexplicable reason, have all fallen off and lay at the bottom of the clock. Very funny to see a clock that seemingly has no hands except for a red one laying sideways at the bottom. In the scene shop, the carpenters have taken to putting a big X made out of duck tape over the face of the its clock so no one should get burned thinking they are looking at the correct time.

[ 02-06-2005, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]