This is topic Shakey Picture on Century Projector in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Sara Serine Orton (Member # 208) on 12-02-1999, 12:51 AM:
It's me the college projectionist! Just recently I've noticed massive shaking in our picture... I found a post talking about adjusting the tension on the gate and stuff. I did this and it's still shaking.
I have a cenutry projector... I don't have the model number here.... once again ... bad Sara!HELP ME!
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-02-1999, 12:56 AM:
Make sure the gate is clean with no build up of crud on anything. Sometimes the gate doesn't close all the way. Also check to make sure the intermittent oil level is ok.The FRAME knob isn't turned all the way in one direction is it?
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-02-1999, 01:06 AM:
Hiya SaraIs your picture shake up and down or sideways?
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John
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-1999, 01:33 AM:
Sara,Like Ken said, the first thing you should do is clean the projector.
1... Pay special attention to the film "trap" and "shoe". Make sure there's no crud on any of the bands or rails, etc. It looks like hard, baked on black stuff, sometimes. Use your favorite projector cleaning fluid and a Q-Tip. (90% Isopropyl/rubbing alcohol is easy to get at just about any drug store for about $1) You may have to use your fingernail to scrape it clean, too. (A PLASTIC scraper may help)
2... Check the lateral guide rollers at the top of the trap. They should be clean and free-rolling. Use 1-2 drops of 3-in-1 oil on the bearings if needed. Be kinda' 'stingy' with the oil. If you get it anywhere but on the bearings, it will mess stuff up. If you use too much or slop some around, clean it off.
3... Check the "studio guides". (The two rails that the film runs between.) They need to be perfectly paralell and just the right distance apart. You're SUPPOSED to use a special tool to check this but it's about $800! In an emergency, I just get a brand new roll of film and make sure it's wound on the core perfectly smooth and tight. If it rolls down between the rails and just rubs against them it's okay. If not, you've got a problem. How do you fix it??? 1) call a technician. 2)Use a piece of film or a steel straight edge to line them back up by eye. This is kind of a bitch to do unless you've been shown... Use option 2 only as a last-ditch, save-the-show, emergency measure.
4... Check the "tension bands". Are they loose, worn or 'dinged up'? Can you turn the tension knob kind of easily? Tighten or replace, etc. as necessary.
5... Check your threading. If you pinch the film in the gate wrong, the whole thing goes catty-wompass! You can tell if it's a mis-thread becasue it will go away when you stop the proj. and re-thread.
That's all I can think of right now.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-02-1999, 01:34 AM:
Whether it's shaking vertically or horizontally is the main thing we're gonna need to know here. But also, did this just start with a different print? Do previews or a known good reel play steadily? Need to know that too. Some reels aren't slit very well or are printed poorly. Just recently the Toy Story 2 prints have had many reels with an unbelieveable amount of shaking to them in all directions. It could be simply your print. If not, just tell us anything you can. Also, what do you use to clean your projector with? Is this a single lens projector or does it have a turret on it? When you adjust the gate tension (the round knob at the top of the gate/trap) is it effortless to turn or is there some tension? etc, etc, etc.
Posted by Sara Serine Orton (Member # 208) on 12-02-1999, 02:29 AM:
I did clean the projector... this film was absolute crap (both the story itself and the print... he he he) My projector hasn't been this filthy since Men With Guns. So anyhow, I did clean it. I'm working with a single lens here not a turnette. Also, the previews were shaking too... up and down and a little sideways... but mainly up and down.
It's been sort of shakey for awhile but tonight was unbareble... for me at least.
I will keep trying all of your suggestions. Thank you so much for the fast response. by the way... does anybody here do business with New Yorker Films..? Is it just me or do they send out the crappiest prints?! GRRRR. What do I have to do get them to listen to me? Do guns work? Bombs? (just sounding off.... ignore me)
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-02-1999, 09:35 PM:
SaraIs the machine noisier than usual? You see the silver ring protruding out from the intermittent sprocket shaft? When it's running, try holding it in your fingers and put some pressure on it (almost like you're trying to slow it down) Does the shaking and the noise go away?
Posted by Christopher A Kerr (Member # 151) on 12-02-1999, 10:41 PM:
John:How do you fix that? We had had it happen to us once. I couldn't fix it so I just replaced the whole intermittent with a spare I had lying around. I still haven't been able to fix the broken one.
Chris
Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 12-02-1999, 10:57 PM:
Can't hurt to check for a loose element in the projection lens as well.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-03-1999, 02:47 AM:
Another problem would be that one of the little set screws that contact the lens carrier lateral adjuster has come loose which will cause the picture to vibrate all over the place ... that one had me stumped for a wjhile until i noticed that by holding my hand against the lens carrier the shaking stopped, and i could actually 'jiggle' the thing back and forth just a slight bit... at motor speeds it was a shaky mess...Aaron
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-03-1999, 10:23 AM:
Sometimes it is uneven pressure on the gate Ie more at the top than at the bottom. If it is a C or CC witht the straight gate there is a tension knob above and below the gate
If it is a SA/DA then maybe the bands are stretched. How is the focus
Also runing the intermittent framed up can help by stopping the tendancy for a loop to form under the gate (this can only been seen with a stobe lightALso try FilmGuarding the print
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-03-1999, 05:21 PM:
Christopher,You can't. It will need to be replaced and the box repaired by your service company.
Sara,
How did you go with my suggestion?
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John
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-1999, 10:55 AM:
Yeah, I get prints from NY Films. They can be pretty junky. We got Edward Scissorhands that had a couple minutes missing out of it and Tango that looked like it was run over by a truck! We got that last print on two different occasions and it was WORSE on the second time! I even fixed it up a little when I broke it down the first time.All I can say is, "Thank God for FilmGuard!!!"
Posted by Sara Serine Orton (Member # 208) on 12-04-1999, 01:42 PM:
OK - Here's the dealI tried many of your ideas... nothing has worked yet. There is a nasty noise coming from the projector (no matter how we thread)and the film moves in a clockwise circle. I looked at the film trap and it was clean. I couldn't really find anything loose on it. QUESTION?
How tight should the trap shoe (Film straps) be? Could this have anything to do with my problem?
Anyhow... any other suggestions?
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-04-1999, 01:56 PM:
The trap bands should only be tight enough to keep the image stable
does the machine make the same noise if it is run with no film
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-1999, 02:37 PM:
Any "Shutter Ghost"?? (Travel Ghost)Looks like the picture is streaking up the screen. Almost as if the picture was made of wet paint and somebody wiped it with a broom. (vertically)
If so, I would like to suggest that there's a nut on the vertical shaft, in the gear box that has come loose on me a couple of times.
It's the one on the 'sliding' gear that drives the intermittent. If it's loose, there's a lot of noise, huge jitters and shutter ghost that won't go away no matter how much you turn the timing knob.
It's a 10 minute job with a couple of wrenches but it scared the heck out of me the first time it happened. Now, I'm like, "Oh, JEEZ!... Gimme a wrench." 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-04-1999, 04:30 PM:
I'm starting to wonder if the first suggestion (Ken-intermittent oil) isn't your problem. As Gordon mentioned above, does it clank away with no film in it? Also, just in case you don't know how to check the intermittent oil level, it is the little round window right below the intermittent sprocket. When you come into the booth first thing, check and see if you see any oil in there. Typically you will have to wipe this clean to see and frequently a flashlight helps. It should be at the halfway point. If you don't see any oil, either it is overfilled (oil covering the entire window) or you have an intermittent that has run dry and must be replaced.To check and see if the intermittent is overfilled, get your light situated, get down at eye level and watch the window while you (or a friend) flips the motor switch on. If suddenly you see the slosh of the oil and the level drops while it's running, it's overfilled...but I'll bet it's dry. Being dry would explain your noise and shaky image.
Posted by Sara Serine Orton (Member # 208) on 12-05-1999, 12:56 PM:
The PROBLEM IS FOUND!
It's the intermittent. Early in the semester we never oiled the projector. I know, very bad. Nobody told us about this. Now we oil it religiously. But there might have been permanent damage done. And from what I've been told by our own projectionist guru it's going to cost and arm and a leg to fix it. Our lesson today: OIL YOUR PROJECTOR!Thanks for all your help guys!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-05-1999, 01:43 PM:
And congratulations goes out to Ken Layton who unbenownst at the time, had the correct answer to Sara's question a mere 5 minutes after she posted it! 
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 12-05-1999, 02:02 PM:
Ken Layton is also my Holmes guru.I look forward to getting the manual that he supplied to Film-Tech. A friend has downloaded it, and I expect it anyday. Thank you, Ken!
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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-05-1999, 03:45 PM:
I mentioned checking the oil because the last 5 theaters I visited had at least one Century projector with NO OIL AT ALL IN THE INTERMITTENT!!!! Everytime I tell the crew to check the oil, it just goes in one ear and out the other. Maybe we should make them pay for the slammed intermittent! Boy then they'd be checking the oil level every show.
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-05-1999, 03:59 PM:
Several years ago at one theater I visited, they were using 90 weight oil in the intermittent. And they wondered why it ran slow.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-1999, 05:05 PM:
I have put APG 90 oil in centurys and not had many problems. The reason I used that was when flipped on there backs to project on domed ceilings the damned movements would leak even when the vent was plugged.
A lot of the VV machines also were filled with APG 90 which was the standard for the Motiograph AAA movements
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-05-1999, 05:12 PM:
On the matter of no oil I had a service call recently to a theatre that Vic 4 and one of the oil tubes (gues which one) had been plugged and the movement had been try for a very long time to the point that the cam pin had heated and expanded in the star slot
Luckily the star on the vic4 is very large so we just replaced the pin and useing a dremel with a cut of opened up the slot
5 years later the machine is still running and is the queitest of the bunch
Not something I would recomend
Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 12-07-1999, 10:42 PM:
Sara, a new SA intermittent runs about $1000+. But a company called Metro Technical Services out of Baltimore will do a repair/exchange. You send them the bad one, they send you a rebuild one. should run about $400-$500. call 1-(800)-443-4960. You will need a technician to change the intermittent however. And that could also run a couple of hundred. Good luck! and keep oiling!
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-08-1999, 04:11 PM:
Almost all dealers will do repair exchanges on Movements contact the dealer you usually deal with for bulbs tape etc.
As there tech will probably have to come out to change it and most will not change a movement if it comes from someone else