Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Measuring Lab Quality (for release prints)

This is topic Measuring Lab Quality (for release prints) in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000443

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-04-1999, 01:11 AM:

This question is mostly for John Pytlak, but anyone with experince can chime in....

First, are any 'release-print' labs ISO9000 approved? (For anyone who might not know, ISO9000 is a quality control process.)

Second, (It's kind of hard to describe what I'm looking for here, but) I guess I'm looking for a 'number.' Let's say that I feel that a print is not quite right. Maybe it's too jumpy, weave-y, colors not quite right, etc. Not obviously bad, just a tiny bit beyond what I think is acceptable. Equal to, or below this 'number,' and I have the right to ask for a replacement print. And I'm thinking of a number that most labs would go by, not what SMPTE has in their standards.

I mean, if you call and ask for a replacement print saying it has too much jitter, the lab is probably just going to say, "It's your projector." (In fairness, if they gave one to eveybody who asked, they would need to print twice as many!) Example: If I pre-measure the jitter on my projectors with the magenta RP40, then compaire that with a release print, is that a valid test?

I'm looking for a quantitative way to reject a print, that can be done at the theaters.

While jitter and weave is fairly easy, I have no idea how to test for color quality in theaters. I've seen a 3-color temperture meter (a Tektronix,) and it was about the most exotic peice of equipment I ever saw- not for the everyday user.

Anyway, I know there are no easy answers to this, but what can a theater do to convince the lab to send a new reel(s) without sounding like 'the boy who cried wolf'?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-09-2000, 10:29 PM:

(whistle, whistle) I am (metaphorically speaking) pushing this old posting to the top of JP's "IN" basket....

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 02-10-2000, 09:36 AM:

This is a good thread idea. Another related question: When the SMPTE makes up reference standard prints, where do they get them done? I have an old one that was done by General Film Labs--DeLuxe? It is rock steady too.

Do they go through a slower printing process, or a different printer type? Just wondering....

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 02-10-2000, 10:29 AM:

The last I heard, RP-40 was being printed one frame at a time from a glass plate negative. This is part of why it costs so much. Also, in this regard and in others having to do with registration (read "steadiness") it is important to remember that in almost all cases it is only in the projector that the film is guided by its edges. From camera to printer the perforations are the positioning elements, and in most cases, one specific perforation for each frame (but I can't remember which one).

------------------
Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-10-2000, 10:43 AM:

There's a guy near me (here in Connecticut) who does the test films for SMPTE. I talked to him a breifly few years ago. He said that it was getting harder to find the raw film stock good enough for test purposes. I forget what the problem was exactly, but I guess it was the perf's and slitting- not the emulsion.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2000, 12:32 PM:

Information about ISO 9000 and ISO 14000 is available at:
http://www.iso.ch/9000e/9k14ke.html

Many Kodak manufacturing facilities have already been ISO 9000 and ISO 14000 certified. Likewise, film laboratories may have applied for certification, or already be certified --- you will have to ask the particular laboratory about the status of their certification.

To supplement ISO certification, and particular to the motion-picture industry, Kodak has developed a quality assurance program known as Imagecare (TM). Similar to ISO 9000, the Kodak Imagecare Program requires laboratories to standardize and document their procedures, monitor and control their processes, and be able to demonstrate that they are following the procedures and checklists they have documented. The Imagecare Program is being rolled out in selected regions worldwide. Information about the Kodak Imagecare Program is at:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/imagecare/index.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2000, 12:36 PM:

Darn URL's :O The correct URL for ISO 9000 and ISO 14000 is:
http://www.iso.ch/9000e/9k14ke.htm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2000, 12:52 PM:

John:

Stan D. in Ridgefield CT prints many of SMPTE's test films. Kodak supplies the film as "Special Order", which must be specially perforated to much tighter tolerances than normal SMPTE standards. So sometimes it takes extra time and effort to meet Stan's requirements.