This is topic New reel 5 for Toy Story in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 12-18-1999, 02:14 AM:
Anybody else get this memo? I just learned that Disney is sending us new reel 5's for all our prints of Toy Story 2, but they didn't mention why. Are there going to be outtakes in the credits like in "A Bug's Life" or something? Typical that they would do this on Christmas week - like we have nothing better to do with our time.And while we're on the subject of Christmas - I just LOVE that movies are opening on x-mas day - a Saturday! Why don't tbey just open them on Friday - they'd make more money!
Posted by Masao Garcia (Member # 184) on 12-18-1999, 04:04 AM:
Yeah, I received a memo like that too. I think it also said something about how the DTS discs were already ready to play this new reel, so I'm wondering if it was already planned? Strange stuff.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-18-1999, 04:14 AM:
Yes, as I understand it there will be outtakes in the new R5 of TS2. I wonder if anything else will change. Will this extend the overall running time by a few minutes, or will they run the end credits alongside it??? Guess we'll all know next week.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-18-1999, 11:15 AM:
How much do we get to 'back-charge Disney for the reel change?Oh, I know: It's for the love of the craft....
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-18-1999, 12:16 PM:
Looks to me like Disney is going to advertise it this week as a way to attract more people to the film with the rash of new titles coming out.I saw a report that they had already released these in Australia, but they were pulled. Someone did post a list, though.
If the sound is on the DTS disc, it was definitely a planned move.
Mark L.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-18-1999, 04:36 PM:
It'll be interesting to see if TES keeps track of which theaters they sent "dye transfer" (used to be called "IB Tech") prints to and sends the appropriate R5. Apparently there was 200 made. Imagine how pathetic that would be to watch 75 minutes of a dye transfer print to cut into the last reel on a regular one!I'm still angry I did NOT get one!!!!! Anyone know what must be done to get these prints when they're made?
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-18-1999, 05:42 PM:
I'd rather not think about that one 
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 12-18-1999, 06:15 PM:
Question. Are the theatres that are running TS2 in "digital" going to get a new download for the end of the movie? ------------------
Scott
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-18-1999, 09:15 PM:
Did Disney give any indication when the switch to the new reel is to be made?Mark L.
Posted by Erika Hellgren (Member # 22) on 12-19-1999, 01:39 AM:
Disney was real vague about when the new reels would arrive ... just "sometime next week". I'm sure they'll arrive at the VERY last minute. They're supposed to be on by the weekend.
Posted by Gordon Leslie (Member # 139) on 12-19-1999, 02:25 AM:
We received our print of TS2 on Tues 30th Nov to screen from Thurs 2nd Dec. Friday we get a memo from the distributors to say the blooper reel 5 is to be replaced,please arange pickup of the new reel asap,as the blooper reel will be re-released in a couple of weeks...The silly thing is the big Disney ad in the paper on the weekend said "DONT MISS THE BLOOPERS",of cause people are coming out complaining after the movie asking whats happened to it....One big blooper for Disney!!!!!....
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 12-20-1999, 09:38 AM:
The DLP projector is supposed to get the blooper reel sometime. I heard about this a couple of weeks ago.Also note, that we did not switch to Bicentennial Man as we were supposed to. And good thing. They stated that TS2 was still doing well enough to keep is going on DLP.
Just wish they would come in and do the trailer change for Bicentennial Man.
Our memo from corp said they (TS2 - R5) would be coming in about the 21-22 and HAD to be on by the 25. Disney was going to advertise.
Too bad that the local newspaper didn't look to see when the ad copy was supposed to start.
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 12-22-1999, 01:06 AM:
You have to have an engineer come in to do a trailer change with DLP projectors? Hopefully this won't be necessary by the time the system officially takes over.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-22-1999, 01:46 PM:
Dye transfer (IB Tech.) prints are the ones with the sound tracks all in black (Even the SDDS), right?? All three of ours are like that. Problem is that the registration is off. The magenta matrix can be seen bleeding into the letters in the credits.As for the new reels... Haven't seen them yet. And I have to FG them again, too!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-22-1999, 04:35 PM:
Randy I am very jealous of you now! You got THREE dye transfer prints!!! What must be done to get these??? I've only had Bulworth and 13th Warrior and I had to beg and plead to get them and they were FANTASTIC!Yes, they can be easily identified by the "black and white" edges. The only part of the film that will have color to it is the actual picture, as they are (in the simplest form) black and white prints with color layed on top.
I'll bet they blow the pants off of the DLP presentations! 
I do feel for those running the dye transfer prints without FilmGuard, as black and white film stocks shed like Alaska during a blizzard. I'm assuming you have FilmGuarded all 3 of yours. No shedding, right? 
Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 12-23-1999, 10:33 PM:
Woah... this is the first I've even *heard* that some TS2 prints were in dye transfer! What's the point of making 'em if you don't publicize 'em?? Especially if you only make some of them dye transfer and distribute them in an apparently random fashion. Is 'IB Tech' no longer a preferred term?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-23-1999, 10:47 PM:
No, the process is a bit different and "IB Tech" is no longer considered a valid term for current prints. Perhaps if someone from Technicolor labs is lurking they will post a detailed description.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-24-1999, 10:20 AM:
My understanding is that "IB Tech" is really just film collector and projectionist slang for the process which has always been officially called "dye transfer printing." The Technicolor lab has always used "dye-transfer" when referring to these prints.
I don't understand the new process fully (I have a reel of the 1998 reissue of GWTW which is quite dreadful...on the other hand, the new dye print of "Wizard of Oz" that I saw at the Uptown in DC was eye-poppingly beautiful, if a bit grainy), but I can recommend the book "Technicolor Movies" by Richard Haines for some excellent information on the "old" process (both single-strip and three-strip). This book was published in 1993; I don't know if it's still available/in print, but a good library should have a copy.
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 12-24-1999, 06:15 PM:
FYI, The "IB" in "IB Tech" stood for a process call Imbibition printing, and of course the "Tech" stood for Technicolor. I think that the combination of the two probably just evolved. The Technicolor process uses Imbibition printing.------------------
Scott
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-28-1999, 05:03 PM:
We got one of those dye-transfer prints. Purely by accident, I'm sure. The heads & tails of it are "regular release" type, but the print body is dye-transfer. Obviousely somebody goofed the leaders up.We got the "new" reel 5, unfortunately it's the "regular" type, so there is definitely a noticeable color difference between R4 and R5. The print as a whole is in great shape though....the dye transfer reels look great on screen. And of course, we've had no complaints from anyone about the color change. I'm just glad it isn't scratched up.
------------------
Mike Blakesley
www.goforsyth.com/roxy
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-28-1999, 05:13 PM:
Mike,1-800-99-FILMS Call 'em! That's what they're there for. There is simply no excuse for treating your audiences with 4 reels of dye transfer and then finishing with a regular print. I wonder how many other theaters have this error on screen.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-05-2000, 07:23 PM:
I'd bet "a lot" of other theatres have this error. I called, and of course got a techno-geek who had NO idea what I was talking about. I finally esplained to him about how the soundtracks areas are all b&w and that's how you can tell the difference, etc etc etc . He basically said there must not be any dye transfer prints of the new reel 5 at least he didn't have any "in his system." Whatever that means.For what it's worth, this was EXACTLY the kind of response I was anticipating.
Also FWIW, the new reel 5 looks very good and unless a person is really doing a careful comparison, I don't think anyone could tell because there's quite a difference in the localities that are shown. Like, you see Andy's room at the end, but it's been so long since you've seen that location, you don't notice the difference in colors. As far as the characters themselves, the action in that reel is so breakneck that it's hard for even me to notice the difference, and I've watched the thing about 12 times.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-06-2000, 07:13 PM:
We FG'ed all 3 prints right away. They all run great. They are as quiet as a mouse. Ya' couldn't tell the projector's running if it wasn't for the sound of the motor! All 3 of our new reels were regular prints. Thing is, that I'm the only one who probably even noticed. They DO look good in 'technicolor' except for those crummy credits.
I'm trying to step up the FilmGuard 'program' here in Erie, PA. Trying to get more Kelmar cleaners. Mgt. is only going to buy me ONE more. I have an Ultra-Star 75mm lens and a matching .65x Zoom Teleconverter. (Used but, except for a little dust, still in almost new condition) If anybody's willing to do a little 'horse trading', I'm game.
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-08-2000, 02:23 PM:
I'm sure in the dark on this one. How long's this (dye-xnsfr) been going on? I remember reading in the 70s, about the last IB printer being shipped off to China.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-08-2000, 09:54 PM:
Technicolor started playing around with it on such older reissues a few years back as "Giant". Select prints of "Wizard of Oz", "Bulworth" and a couple more were also made. It wasn't until "13th Warrior" that they really knocked the bugs out of it. The print I ran of "13th Warrior" was nothing short of incredible! Recently a couple hundred prints of "Toy Story 2" and "Any Given Sunday" were dye transfer printed. The only problem with the "Toy Story 2" prints are the new reel 5s were NOT printed in dye transfer!!! If I would've been lucky enough to have one, I would've made an ultrasonic splice at the fade out to credits and spliced on the new credits in plain 'ol bland whatever-you-call-it printing. This would've preserved the dye transfer image throughout the feature.Kudos goes to the team at Technicolor labs who is handling these dye transfer prints!!!
NOTE: "Apt Pupil" was never released in dye transfer, despite what the newsgroups say.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-08-2000, 10:55 PM:
Hey, Brad -- you left out the hopelessly botched "Gone With the Wind" reissue in "new" IB Tech. I have a reel 13 from this and it's absolutely horrible. It runs through Century projectors OK, but when I ran it on an X-L, the shedding was so bad that the gate looked like it had been sitting outside in a snowstorm.
On the other hand, I saw one of the "Oz" IB Tech prints at the Uptown in DC. The word "wow!" does not adequately describe the experience.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-09-2000, 01:45 AM:
Come on Scott. You should know better than to try and run a film without FilmGuard! You are correct though. There were 50 full frame 1.33 dye transfer prints of "Oz". It still seems like I'm missing a title or two.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-09-2000, 02:16 AM:
Brad said:"NOTE: "Apt Pupil" was never released in dye transfer, despite what the newsgroups say."
Wrong. I have personally handled a dye transfer print of "Apt Pupil". Black and white SDDS and optical tracks,occasional red and green splotching like GWTW had, extra-super shedding and all... And though they are notoriously wrong in their label printing the 'green' TES label on the cans did say "IB DYE" on them...
Aaron
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-09-2000, 02:37 AM:
You absolutely certain about that? I once spoke to a fellow at Technicolor and he said there were zero dye transfer prints made on that title, but that for some reason the newsgroup claimed there were.Oh yes, select prints of Godzilla were in dye transfer as well.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-10-2000, 02:16 AM:
Absolutely.the B/W SDDS and optical tracks were a dead giveavay...
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-10-2000, 01:07 PM:
On a slightly different "Toy Story 2" subject:I was a little disappointed to see some 'burp and fart' jokes in the 'outtakes.' I thought it was nice that they got through all of the regular movie without one, only to throw a few in the outtakes. Now, don't get me wrong; I like a good ass-blast myself from time to time, but those in "Toy Story 2" seemed, uh,. how can I put this... forced out.....
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-10-2000, 07:11 PM:
You're right about the fart/burp jokes. I've been keeping a list of Disney's Bathroom Humor and "almost bad language" for the past few years. A few come to mind:The Lion King:
"Why do I always have to save your AAAAAAAAH!"
Aladdin:
"You two-faced son-of-a-jackal!"
Toy Story 1:
"Son-of-a-building-block"
There are more that I can't think of at this moment.
And of course all the other fart jokes in Lion King too. I wish they would quit doing that.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-10-2000, 08:01 PM:
You know, I don't mind scatalogical humor at all. I think the funniest scene in a movie that EVER saw was the "campfire scene" in Blazing Saddles. What I DO mind is when the jokes are overdone or inappropriate for the audience...The ONE burp joke in TS2 was funny for the "10-and-up audience". ("BELCH!!! Whoah! I don't remember eating THAT!...") but the FART joke ("That's why they call me Stinky Pete") went too far and it was too gross for the 'young kids and Moms' audience.
Mel Brooks is the only one that has been able to do a good fart joke, as far as I'm concerned. (Blake Edwards' "fart in the elevator" in Pink Panther is a close second.) Okay, the one episode of The Drew Carey Show was funny, but let's just call that one a 'guilty pleasure'.
The secret is knowing just how to take the joke. Study a few Mel Brooks films and compare them to today's films and the difference should become clear....
BLUCHER!!!! ...... Naaaaaaaaay!
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-11-2000, 03:30 PM:
Well, that sure is good news, Brad!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-11-2000, 03:51 PM:
Mike,Disney's put in much worse than a simple fart joke and almost bad language in their "animated classics". If the worst thing you noticed in "Toy Story I" was "son-of-a-building-block", then try this one on for size...
Woody and Buzz are trapped in Sid's room. Sid has just received his rocket. Sid enters the room "Oh boy it came, it finally came. The big one finally came! Now who am I gonna blow. Oh yeah, that cowboy doll!"
(And of course, the cowboy doll's name is "woody".)
Another nice little evil add-in was the Jolly Rancher dildo in the castle in "The Little Mermaid".
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-11-2000, 05:05 PM:
I enjoyed the fart joke in "Ghostbusters" (even though it wasn't REALLY a fart joke) almost as much as the Blazing Saddles one you mentioned.If you recall the GB's are in the elevator going up to catch 'Slimey' in the ballroom for the first time. It's a classic three shot from the front of the elevator. Dan Aykroyd fires up his Ghost Catcher to a loud noise and this is followed by a large amount of rumbling sub-bass. Harold ramis and Bill Murray slowly back away into the corner of the lift with very worried looks on their faces.
Not quite so funny on the drive in speaker without the sub bass.
----------------------
"Okay, so... She's a dog"
Bill Murray