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Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 12-25-1999, 02:00 PM:
I'm having sound problems with my UltraStero unit. It's a 105-195, with a basic QSC amp. We have one speaker behind the screen, and 4 on each side wall.After installing a CD player shelf in the rack, I had to rewire all of the components because I shifted them around to make room. Well, my manager threw out all of my wire, so I had to resort to using 4 color thermostat wire to rig it up! The problem is, after the rewiring, everything sounds hollow. The surrounds aren't very loud at all, and the main speaker doesn't seem to have any "kick" to it. I'm thinking it's maybe an amp problem, cuz ever since the rewiring, the red light for Clip #2 keeps coming on.
Suggestions? I downloaded the JS-200 manual and I'm currently reading it to try and figure things out.
s
Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 12-25-1999, 03:31 PM:
I'd get some better wire as soon as possible. That thermostat wire is more than likely not heavy enough to handle the load. Some amps read a "clip" when there is an impedence mismatch, or power is lost through the wire in form of heat. Are the wires going to the speakers warm? If so, run the amp as low as you can until you can get heavier wire, and watch the clip and how hot the amp itself is getting.Hope that's some help. Merry Christmas!
--Chris
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-25-1999, 03:37 PM:
It seems the problem is in the QSC amp, not the Ultra-Stereo processor, although I don't know much about Ultra-Stereo.Throwing out the existing wire and using thermostat wire in it's place is a big no-no. And after moving things around, there could be several problems, not just one. I'm not trying to be a pain, just saying it might not be possiable to fix right away.
(I'm guessing) that the two outputs of the processor (front and surrounds) went to the two channels on the QSC. Could you have reversed which signal went to amp input #1 and amp input #2? The "clip" light is indicating that the input is too high, while the other channel seems too low. If you are sure that everything is wired correctly, it's as good a guess as any.
Most processors have three wires for each output: high (sometimes marked "+"), low (sometimes marked "-") and ground. Could your have reversed ground and low- sometimes that causes a reduction in volume.
Generally speaking, I think you will have to give us more clues to be able to get anywhere. Is the sound distorted? Does it sound ok at the booth monitor? Is there a emergency "bypass" setting, and what happens when you use it, etc....
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 12-25-1999, 04:47 PM:
Get some Belden 8451 or equivalent wire and get rid of that thermostat wire. The clip light on that QSC,(1200, 1400, 1700?????) is on one Channel only, or are both of them on? Recheck all of your connections from the processor to the amps, amps to the speakers, processor and amp outputs to the booth monitor. See which channel, if only one clip light is on, to see if it is the one going to the stage or the surrounds. If the QSC is one of those series one amps I listed above, it is possible that the gain control knobs were accidently turned when moving the equipment around. As the knobs on that series of amps are on the back of the amplifier, you might not have noticed it. Make sure that they are in the position that they were in before you moved everything around. Is the clip indicator(s) on all of the time, or only during louder passages? It is possible that the fan in the amp, if so equipped, has stopped running, that can cause heat build up problems. It is rare on the QSC, but I did run into that problem one time.Since the clip indicator/s started to come on after moving and re-wiring things, I would also check to see if some of that thermostat wire is shorted, maybe a couple of nicked wires when you stripped them? That could explain some of it. Please keep us informed!
------------------
Scott
Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 12-25-1999, 04:51 PM:
I plan to get the correct wire as soon as some stores around here open up. I've turned down the surround adjustment screw all the way down because that seemed to be the source of the clip going off on the amp. The main speaker in the auditorium sounds a lot better than it did yesterday. However, the surrounds aren't working at all (this was before I turned them off). When I listen on the booth monitor, everything sounds fine, but not in the auditorium. All this would have never happened if Marcus would just pay for service techs instead of having untrained people do stuff! About 4 months ago I had to singlehandedly install a large popcorn machine, which included rewiring a 220 plug because they didn't want to pay for a service call to the popcorn people!
The QSC is a 1400. And the gain controls were not touched, they both are turned fully towards the right.
Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 12-26-1999, 12:19 AM:
I would suggest that you get someone in who knows what he is doing. It looks like you only have center surrounds so I would not expect too much anyway.
David
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-26-1999, 12:43 AM:
Sounds like processor-to-amp wiring for the surround channel or possibly one of the surround speakers/wiring has a problem.If you need some shielded wire quick and cheap, try Radio Shack's # 278-514 (20ft spool for $3.99) or # 278-513 (50ft spool for $7.99).
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-26-1999, 01:58 AM:
>>"If you need some shielded wire quick and cheap, try Radio Shack's # 278-514 (20ft spool for $3.99) or # 278-513 (50ft spool for $7.99). "<<Let us not condone this sort of thing...cheap inappropiate wire is what got him into this mess.
My guess is inexperience is another factor.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 12-26-1999, 03:57 PM:
You may have something out of phase. This can cause cancelation of audio. Make sure all "+"'s are wired to "+"'s and "-"'s to "-"'s.
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 12-26-1999, 05:49 PM:
"The main speaker in the auditorium sounds a lot better than it did yesterday. However, the surrounds aren't working at all (this was before I turned them off). When I listen on the booth monitor, everything sounds fine, but not in the auditorium."
_____________________________________________Sounds like the speakers may have been out of phase as was stated above. Since you seem to have surrounds in the booth monitor and not in the theatre auditorium, I assume that you are listening to the processor outputs on the booth monitor. You may have shorted the amp output lines when rewiring, and that in turn caused the suround channel to go bad in the amplifier. You probably need to get a new, or used, amp . You should make sure that none of the wires are shorted in the surround chain or at the amp. Also make sure that when the amp is replaced, all of the wiring is double checked, and that all wiring is done with the POWER OFF.
If you have to, unplug everything while rewiring, then after everything has checked out, no shorts, phasing correct ect..., power the system back up.
------------------
Scott
Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 12-27-1999, 03:18 AM:
If you only have one stage channel then what is out of phase too? even if you use the incorrect cable it will not produce the symptoms you have only hum.
David
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 12-27-1999, 08:12 PM:
I think the best way to fix these problems rather than fiddel whith it and get know where, is to bugger the expense and call in a tech.At least you will get things back to normal with out these headaches you have been haveing.It really gives me the s***ts when managers cry poverty when things in the bio need to be replaced or repaired.They always let you know how much it costs when the 6 monthly service is being carried out.But they dont care about the costs when they purchase new equipment for their office I have seen this happen time after time.
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Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 12-27-1999, 10:03 PM:
Are you absolutely sure that the hook-up of the C.D. player hasn't introduced a very high-frequency signal into the system, causing the amps to "top out" at a frequency above that of human hearing?
Disconnect the damn thing.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-28-1999, 01:28 PM:
Check the outputs of the amps and the inputs
The QSC have a balanced input unsure that the - side is attached to the E terminals of the processor and that the + side of the speakers is connected only to the monitor inputs
You can create some interesting ground problems with connections to monitors
Posted by Kenneth H. Williams (Member # 286) on 12-28-1999, 08:52 PM:
Please verify that the solar cell wiring to the Ultra-Stereo is correct...that is, not out of phase. Also check the hearing-impaired wiring...I've had sound problems due to shorts, etc. with these units. Don't think the problem is with the amp...most likely the wiring. Any chance the dip-swithces that program the Ultra- Stereo for the correct output got accidentally moved? These are on the backplane over on the right side as viewed from the rear...verify correct formatting of these switches also. Please keep us informed as to the solution.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-28-1999, 09:53 PM:
Semi-dumb question: what's the "usual" way to hook up a booth monitor? The processor that I'm most familiar with (CP-50) doesn't have monitor outputs. I had thing set up so that the speaker-outs from the amps were connected both to the loudspeakers and to a four-position selector (actually five...L, C, R, S, off) which was then connected to the monitor amp (cheapie 100w McMartin PA amplifier) which played through a 5" Quam PA speaker. It was kind of cheesy, but it worked reasonably well and there was no noticeable click or pop in the auditorium when the projectionist switched the monitor channel.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-29-1999, 02:24 AM:
Scott:You got the 'el-cheapo' monitor system correctly, but you have WAY too much amplifier for it 
Assuming a standard type of commercial booth monitor system is used, the typical method of connection is as follows:
The processor outputs are connected to the processor monitor inputs, in almost all cases, these can be directly paralelled from either the processor output side or the amplifier INPUT side... In many systems I have built I use the monitor as a midpoint connectoion between the processor and the amplifiers...
The power amplifier inputs of the monitor go directly to the 'hot' side of the individual channels speaker output terminals then to the terminals on the monitor unit. Because the power amp side of the monitor deals with a rather high level signal, shielded wiring is rarely needed to connect the power amp side of the monitor...
Aaron
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-05-2000, 03:28 PM:
Lately, our Ultra*Stereo processors have been blowing power supplies. Two of them went out in the last month. The -15v light goes out and you have to run the processor in 'bypass' with the emergency power supply. (We don't have the 'backup' supply. Just the little 'brick-on-a-string')Altogether, we've had about 1/2 doz. of these die. What's up with that? Otherwise, I like the Ultra*Stereo unit. (Although I don't have much experience with anything else.)
Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 01-05-2000, 05:48 PM:
Randy, back when I opened the Cinemark Tinsetown in '96 shortly after opening we started going though powersupplies left and right, come to find out that Ultra*Stereo had changed the design of the power supply, but in the process was using a fuse that was too low of amperage. since these fuses were soldered to the board all we could do was to send the power supply back to U*S for exchange/repair. Last I heard they had fixed the problem by using fuses that could handle the amperage of the circut. I don't remember the model #, but you might want to check with U*S to see if you might still have one of the effected powersupplies.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-05-2000, 09:55 PM:
Lately I have been having 6 track format boards fail with channels dropping out in certaiin formats.
It appears to be the relays (the same ones that seem to fail on the EQ boards
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-05-2000, 11:55 PM:
Regarding the US Power supplies...It's biggest failing is the "standby" push button...it isn't rated to switch the amount of current it is switching. If one of the rails go out, try pushing the switch in and out to see if it comes back. On the units I service, the switch gets removed and jumpers installed.
As Gordon mentioned, the EQ cards have a relay on them that has often killed off just one channel at a time. I have had to change a few.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 01-06-2000, 02:02 AM:
The newer version of the power supplies have a rocker switch instead of the pushbutton switch.------------------
Scott
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-06-2000, 06:55 PM:
Steve G.,Yup, that's what just happened on the last two of them that blew. The one that we got back last time had the 'standby' switch removed and the hole plugged out. The second one is still on order.
Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 01-10-2000, 12:28 PM:
Charles, did you ever get this problem fixed? If so, what was the cause of the problems.------------------
"No matter where you go, there you are."
Scott
Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 01-12-2000, 12:23 AM:
Had a tech come in 2 days ago. I was on vacation at the time. Before I left, I had turned the surround level down completely to avoid "clipping" of the amp. Tech comes in, says "your problem is no level on the surrounds" and turns it back up. Well a day later, it sounds like the surround channel is coming through the main speaker, and vice versa. I have everything hooked up properly now with the correct cable. I have a feeling that one of the EQ cards from either the main or surround channels is bad. We had this problem 5 months after we had the system installed, and that was the solution. Age could be a factor too. We picked this system up from a closed theatre, to replace our mono system.