Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 70mm "Academy" sound in CP500 & MPU1?

This is topic 70mm "Academy" sound in CP500 & MPU1? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 01-08-2000, 04:57 AM:

We are about to install a Dolby MPU1 next to the brand-new CP500 to handle the 35mm and 70mm mag stuff. Our theatre used to have five screen speakers, and thus could handle the old 70mm "Academy" format. The new installation, however, only has three, so obviously the old "Academy" format is can never be what it was again.

How do those of you that have this hardware configuration handle the old 6-track "Academy" prints? And also, do you happen to know how many of the old 6-track "Academy" prints actually used five screen channels, instead of the later three-channel solution?

I noticed that the CP500 (software version 1.61) doesn't even predefine the "Academy" format, so I guess I'll have to define a user format for it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-08-2000, 05:39 AM:

You need a CP-200 with an Aux rack to do it properly. The CP-500s just don't quite cut the mustard for 70mm mag.

Somewhere I've got a list of the 70mm films released with their sound formats. I'll see if I can dig it up.

When oh when is Dolby going to come out with the promised Aux rack for the CP-500???

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 01-08-2000, 07:09 AM:

Didn't get the CP200, I'm afraid. It's almost impossible to locate one around here since the few theatres that still have them won't part from them. I can live with the CP500, however. It handles 70mm Dolby formats fairly well, and both optical and SR-D are wonderful. The only thing that bothers me is that one 6-track "Academy" print per year that we get...

I didn't know that Dolby was about to do an aux rack for the CP500. What's going to be in it, do you know?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-08-2000, 11:05 AM:

Dolby has no plans for a aux rack for the CP500.
PanaStereo makes an aux rack with MPU that will directly interface with the CP500 and does all the formats includeing ToddAo

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-08-2000, 12:22 PM:

The CP-500 is flawed in MANY ways when it comes to 70mm.

As you have discovered, it can not handle 5-screen channels so it can't reproduce the Conventional 6-track prints. But even sillier is that it can not handle Format 43 with Dolby SR (the last films made used this configuration). It will do it with A-type but not SR.

As Gordon mentioned, Panastereo has the solution. Their 70mm accessory unit will interface to a CP-500 and provide up to 6-channels of genuine Dolby SR noise reduction (or Pana's version, your choice) plus provide the MPU facilities.

The Panastereo unit also puts back the forgotten yet important LC and RC channels.

The Pana unit will track with the CP-500 fader so LC and RC will come along for the ride.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 01-08-2000, 05:14 PM:

"As you have discovered, it can not handle 5-screen channels so it can't reproduce the Conventional 6-track prints. But even sillier is that it can not handle Format 43 with Dolby SR (the last films made used this configuration). It will do it with A-type but not SR."

Isn't there a CP500 (CP500-300, I believe they call it) for studio purposes that handles more SR noise reduction channels? OTOH, there weren't that many 70mm SR prints, were there? "Far and Away" and "Baraka" are the two films that come to mind.

"As Gordon mentioned, Panastereo has the solution. Their 70mm accessory unit will interface to a CP-500 and provide up to 6-channels of genuine Dolby SR noise reduction (or Pana's version, your choice) plus provide the MPU facilities."

I'll certainly have a look at the Panastereo solution. Maybe I can convince the management to buy one it, eventually, if the product is good (and cheap) enough. I'm not sure they're prepared to spend more money right now, even though I almost managed to talk them into buying EX.

"The Panastereo unit also puts back the forgotten yet important LC and RC channels."

And it provides equalization for the LC and RC channels, I presume? Sounds like a very useful unit to me.

In the mean time, I'll have to come up with an acceptable solution for the CP500/MPU combo.

Thanks!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2000, 12:58 AM:

>>"Isn't there a CP500 (CP500-300, I believe they call it) for studio purposes that handles more SR noise reduction channels? OTOH, there weren't that many 70mm SR prints, were there? "Far and Away" and "Baraka" are the two films that come to mind."<<

Yup they offer the CP-500/300 that doesn't help you in the 70mm department...it provides two channels of REAL SR as provided by the Cat. 300 SR/A cards instead of the psudo-SR provided by the standard Cat. 222 SR/A

>>"And it provides equalization for the LC and RC channels, I presume? Sounds like a very useful unit to me."<<

Since Pana is the only company offering their analog processors with 1/3 octave EQ on all channels, including the surrounds (even on their Surround EX units) I would be VERY surprised if they didn't have 1/3 octave EQ on LC and RC.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 01-09-2000, 07:17 AM:

>>"Yup they offer the CP-500/300 that doesn't help you in the 70mm department...it provides two channels of REAL SR as provided by the Cat. 300 SR/A cards instead of the psudo-SR provided by the standard Cat. 222 SR/A"<<

Um... What's the difference? i thought that the Cat 222 card provided "real" SR.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-09-2000, 01:30 PM:

The cat 222SR/A card has a limited head room and Dolby does not recomend it for any Mag or Printmaster apllications
The restoration of Lawrence of Arabia is SR mag as was the prints of Back Draft in canada

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-10-2000, 04:02 PM:

Yeah, ya gotta admit: a CP200 is/was tough to beat. It's about 20 years old, but still very useful.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-10-2000, 07:46 PM:

>>"The cat 222SR/A card has a limited head room and Dolby does not recomend it for any Mag or Printmaster apllications
The restoration of Lawrence of Arabia is SR mag as was the prints of Back Draft in canada"<<

Gord, the Cat. 222SR/A does track properly either...ever A/B them? The difference is rather easy to pick off.

As I understand it, they are using Dolby-S noise reduction instead of SR and it shows. I didn't believe the difference until I got a customer complaint where there was MORE noise when they selected SR than A. I verified the problem (the noise was from abrasions in the soundtrack area being scanned by an IR reader). The Cat. 222 SR/A exaggerated the problem in SR mode where as the Cat. 350s did not. The scratch still came though but A was no longer the better choice.

At that point I did some A/B testing between the two and WOW what a difference. The Cat. 222 has the SR a bit brighter and to my ears it doesn't track as well.

After that situation, the only 222SR/As have been for "back ups" to a digital track in typical theatres or as upgrades to CP-55s. Give the choice or a high-end theatre, they get the real deal.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-11-2000, 02:18 PM:

According to Lonnie Jennings the best way to handle this is to get the standard 500 and the aux 6 track input card. Then you can utilize outboard Dolby NR units. That will allow you to playback literally anything. Yes, this is the expensive route to go, but with the 500 its the most flexible. If you don't want to buy the outboard units they can be rented from AudioRents in L.A. on an as needed basis quite reasonably. We did this in Boise at the Egyptian Theater.
Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-11-2000, 03:19 PM:

Just buy the panastereo 70mm adapter and all is taken care of including traking fader capability a type and sr and 1/3 octave eq for Lc and Rc

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-11-2000, 04:07 PM:

Another bad thing about the CP500 (in my opinion) is that it will digitize any incoming analog signal. To me that is just too much processing of the audio. Oh well, life goes on.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-11-2000, 09:23 PM:

>>"According to Lonnie Jennings the best way to handle this is to get the standard 500 and the aux 6 track input card. Then you can utilize outboard Dolby NR units. That will allow you to playback literally anything. Yes, this is the expensive route to go, but with the 500 its the most flexible."<<

I think the Panastereo CSP-4600 is going to win the flexible vote and best solution too.

The engineer on the project has taken my adivce on doing an auto-mix down for those theatres that do not have LC and RC (SHAME ON YOU!)...so running a format 40 print will not lose these vital channels.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 07-11-2000, 06:53 PM:

"Aux-rack" ?? - Where will i have to read about this, please...?