Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Cleaner Mounting

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-17-2000, 04:01 PM:

I've got a Potts-Alpha platter w/ Simplex Proj. I'm going to mount a film cleaner bracket to the platter. (Already have on on the proj. but I want to clean film w/o running the proj.)

Anybody got any tips? Better yet, any pics of film cleaners on the platter?

The instruction sheet that came w/ the bracket is pretty straightforward but you know, there's always some finer points that can only be learned from experirnce...

Thanks!
Randy

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-17-2000, 04:09 PM:

Make sure to order the AW3 platter bracket from Kelmar. All you must do is use it as a template and drill two holes into the column of the platter and then put in a threaded insert.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-17-2000, 04:36 PM:

So it goes on the Vert. Post facing backwards? (Parallel to the yo-yo) The instructions gave me the first impression that it went the other way. Your way makes much more sense. Maybe that's why I was so confused?

What about height? Just anywhere that gives a good film path? How much room does the film need to flex between the last stationary roller on the cleaner and the payout roller/caster at the top of the tree? I figure about a foot or so...

I plan to put it on the tree about even with the top platter (more or less) if I can get a good film path. If not, down near the bottom of the radical.

{When I train new people, I tell them that the film on the platter looks like a giant square root symbol (proper name is 'radical'), hence "down near the bottom of the radical" means the place where the film turns the corner then goes back up to the top of the tree and out to the proj.}

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-17-2000, 04:41 PM:

Christie has their mounting bolts 42" from the base of the platter (the floor) and that seems to be just right for short and tall people to comfortably work with. With the ultra light payout tension from a Potts, it won't take but a foot or so to twist the film. Placing it up near the top platter will force you to always keep the tree positioned in respect to the projector the way it is now. Keep yourself open for future possiblities so you don't have a bunch of mounting holes up and down your column.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-17-2000, 05:39 PM:

I doubt if the platter will ever be moved at all. The booth is small. Things are crammed in there pretty tight as it is.

Posted by Andy Davis (Member # 262) on 01-17-2000, 07:36 PM:

How difficult is it to remove the film cleaner from the Christie platter once it's mounted? I was planning on ordering a couple Kelmar film cleaners and rotating them between our six screens, until I can order more. They are AW3's.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2000, 02:08 AM:

The brackets are easilly moved. Or you can buy one bracket for each platter and just move the cleaners like I do. Either way it is exceedingly simple. Just make sure the screws are nice and firm when mounting to a new platter.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 01-18-2000, 06:23 PM:

I have a vic8 projector, the question is has anyone mounted a kelmar cleaner on a vic8? is it easy? on the different websites for cinema equiptment they say you need a special adapter plate for vic8 can't i make one myself? or does it requird that special plate?

Any help from you guy's will be highly appreciated

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-18-2000, 09:36 PM:

Don't the Cinemeccanica projectors have the mounting holes for the reel arms in different places than on a standard American-made projector?

I suspect that it wouldn't be too difficult to make an adapter plate of some sort, if this is the case. Then, you'd just mount the adapter plate on the projector, then the cleaner bracket, then the upper reel arm.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-18-2000, 11:05 PM:

Kelmar made film cleaner mounting brackets for V8's (also V5's and V9's). We had them on V9's about 15 years ago. They may have come out with a newer model. These were (about) a 3/8" thick, 8" x 4" aluminum plate with holes in it. You remove the upper magazine, place this plate on/through the studs and replace. Then mount the generic film cleaner bracket onto the plate.

It's not a very "clean" adaption. You can't close the magazine door with it on, and you must remove the "wedge" thing that tilts the magazine forward. (If you have either of these: If you are running platters, someone has probably already removed the doors, and the "wedge" thing was usually for use with carbon lamps.)

Also, Scott's right: there are four (metric, of course) bolts that are spaced much farther apart then the way American projector magazines are mounted.

I'm getting on my soapbox now, so you can stop reading if you want....

I feel that the design of the V8 magazines were (hardly anyone uses magazines today) much better than almost any other projector. They could hold an hour of film (a Century JJ could only hold a 40 min reel.) The sides of the magazines were part of the door, which moved out of the way when opened, so you could get your fingers around the reel. (Not so on a Century or a AAII.) The spindles (on 70mm models) had two "locks," one to hold a 35mm reel and another for 70mm. So, you didn't have to change spindles when going to/from 35/70. Although, this meant your house reels had to be 1/2" spindles (not a problem, they cost the same), and "Reel-A-Alarms" had to be custom mounted.
(And don't say, "1/2" spindles! You can't run the reel of the feature on ship out night right on to the shipping reel with 1/2" spindles!) The firetraps could also easily be changed for emulsion in or out winds. (A AAII could also, I know.)

OK, I'm getting down now.......

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-19-2000, 04:00 PM:

Film Cleaner is mounted,now. It was pretty easy when we finally got down to it. Brad and Film-Tech was/were a lot of help. Just TRY to get this kind of Tech-Support from other companies!

Works pretty good, too. We were able to clean the film four times this morning/afternoon. Once more for the screening and one for the "money show" will make six. Film is looking pretty good!
(With the cleaner mounted on the proj., we could only clean it two, maybe three times!)

Funny story: The guy who helped me mount the bracket took a look at the cleaner and said, "So, do you use any kind of 'solvent' on this?" I never mentioned FilmGuard! Guess that means that FG is kind of a 'natural'?

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 01-19-2000, 07:07 PM:

Thanks for the reply Scott and John.

I use a reel arm for the upper reel, and yes the 4 holes on the top are very wide appart, not US standard i think.

I will just make my own mounting-plate then of some old iron and save 50$

Martin

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-19-2000, 07:41 PM:

With the increased cleaning that our current film (DanceMaker) has gotten, it looks almost BRAND NEW! There's a couple of hair-line scratches here and there and that's all.

With all the time and money spent on cleaning and taking care of these crummy movies, the question has been put to me, "Shouldn't somebody be paying you to do all this?" At first it was humorous. Then when the bill came, the question got serious! If you add it all up, including the cleaner, media, FilmGuard, installation labor and just the plain extra time the bill comes to over $800! For a poor little school like Mercyhurst, that's at least one, maybe two more movies we could have shown!

What are the 'parameters' of getting paid? Could we 'charge-back' the company?

Well, I'd probably have better luck if I wished for a pony, but at least I asked.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-19-2000, 10:25 PM:

QUOTE: "With the increased cleaning that our current film (DanceMaker) has gotten, it looks almost BRAND NEW! There's a couple of hair-line scratches here and there and that's all."

Those must've been emulsion side scratches originally. That's the "wet gate type" projection you're seeing there.

Unfortunately, there is no real way to charge them to clean up their films. However, since the cleaner and bracket was a one time expense, cleaning in the future will be extremely inexpensive and as you have just learned, incredibly effortless! All you will need to buy when your supply runs out is another bottle of FilmGuard and another box of media pads. Not bad when you think about it to improve the quality of your presentation.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-19-2000, 10:45 PM:

Well, at my "main" job, all the equipment was already in place. No extra expense. Mercyhurst, however, had to buy the stuff. Fortunately, the college President (Dr. Garvey) is a pretty cool guy. He's into the movies and he's willing to pay the bills if there's results... and there ARE results.

Yup, they were emulsion scratches. FilmGuard wasn't able to remove them completely. (At least in the number of times I ran the print) However, FilmGuard WAS able to minimize them to where they weren't noticible unless you looked for them in all but the brightest scenes. I'm guessing that when the film gets scratched like that, dirt gets down into the scratch and it takes a bunch of runs to get the dirt out of the scratch before the FULL effect is noticed. You CAN see that each run minimizes the scratch a little more. I dunno. Brad's the expert on this. That's just my observations.

Second...

People are getting SPOILED by FilmGuard. Get this... I was asked today NOT to FilmGuard the print on the screening so that people could see what a dirty print looks like! Since we started using it (September) EVERY single run of film through our proj. has had at least one run of F.G. Nobody but me and Mike, the Work Study student, have seen dirty film! I might do it just to show them the difference.

Since we got the second mounting bracket, cleaning film has been a LOT easier! We can double the number of cleanings the film gets. The picture looks even BETTER!

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 01-20-2000, 02:42 PM:

Where on the Speco LP-270 platter is the best place to mount the film cleaner? I am installing one next week and will rotate it between my four projectors. What about the mounting bracket? How easy will it be to move from platter to platter?

Using simplex xl's and also will be installing in another theater using cinemacannica's using the speco's as well.

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-20-2000, 02:46 PM:

Just do the same thing Randy did. Buy yourself an "AW3" mounting bracket from Kelmar and drill some pre-threaded mounting holes onto the feed side of the tree halfway between the top roller and the bottom roller. Don't do this until you get the AW3 bracket though, or you won't know exactly where to make your holes.