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Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-01-2000, 03:47 PM:
I never had the chance to see any movies in 'SENSURROUND' has anyone on the forum? Was it that awsome to see 'EARTHQUAKE' in sensurround or was it just another 'gemick' from Hollywood at that time.How did it work, was it just very large subwoofers and lots and LOTS of power? How was sensurround coded on the film if so and was it true that theaters did fall apart like in the movie 'Matinee' 
Posted by Serge Bosschaerts (Member # 298) on 02-01-2000, 04:00 PM:
I heard the following of a sensurround equiped cinema in Luxembourg :
the owner thought that the number of subwoofers proposed by the installer wasn't enough so he doubled it.
Result was that the first time they played Earthquake the hotel next to the theatre was evacuated because people were convinced a real earthquake was happening ...
Posted by Stefan Scholz (Member # 147) on 02-01-2000, 04:36 PM:
There have been different types of how Sensurround sound worked. The prints could have either been optical, or magnetic sound. In common was the use of "extra" subbass speaker cabinets. With magnetic sound, a seperate track was used, optical worked simelar to the DTS subwoofer, by cutting the low end with a filter, as I remember about 80 Hz and feeding this signal to the woofer cabinets. The frequencies above 80 Hz were then fed to the theatre loudspeaker.
The print's music and dialogue therefore sounded a little "thin", lacking the usual bass response. This was used on my "Rollercoaster" print. The Earthquake I had, had one or two (I'm not sure)tracks dedicated to LF.
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-01-2000, 06:26 PM:
I saw two films in Sensurround. Earthquake and Midway (war flick) It was an amusing experience, but not if you were in the theater next door. When I saw it they had some very large folded (I think) corner horns with 2ea 18" Vega subs in the rear corners. You could deffinately tell when an earthquake was comin cause you could hear the horns "turn on". I saw a couple of people freak and run for the door. Earthquake was a pretty bad film, and really only had the rumble effect to sell it. Midway was better, as far as film content, but the only sensurround effect was bombs exploding etc. much like the subwoofer effects we have to day, except turned up to loud. I wish I could have seen some of the other "catch" gimicks of the 50's like electrified seats (The Tingler) and Smell-o-vision (no kidding).
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-01-2000, 06:45 PM:
Earthquake was rushed in production so actually the original Sensurround box hd a pushbutton to push for the shake effects.
The optical versions used notched edges or a filter or a control tone.
They also usd DBX noise reduction
The 70mm and 4 track mag earthquake used LE/RE for the quake effect and the four track had a tone on the control track
The theatre had to order the print to match there control cabenet.
There were 2 different earthquake cabineets both made by Cerwin Vega. In fact at Cinesphere we use 4 of them for subs on the cp200
At the Penn Centre in St Catherines Ontario the effect was so powerfull the booth floor seperated from its slab and sank 2 inches
at the Elaine theatre the shockwaves killed all the goldfish in the petshop at the otherend of the mall
Low frequencey sound can and is used to implode buildings and at one time the french government was experimenting with it a weapon.Funny the W bins by cerwinvega seem very sinilar to what Klipsh now makes for there large cabeniet in the HPS4000 systems
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-01-2000, 09:07 PM:
I saw "Earthquake" when it first came out, at the theater I would later start my projection carrer.I'm pretty sure it was the old system, where the projectionist would cue it manually. It seemed sort of fake, because it was like there was only two settings: little rumble and big rumble. It became predicable. You felt the exact same 'little rumble' in every scene, until the climax when you would get the 'big rumble.' The only clever/creepy thing in the whole movie was when the elevator doors open and water comes out.
By the time "Rollercoaster" came out, they had improved the rumble magnitude adjustment, and had automated it, but the quality of the film plots (never that great to begin with) really sucked. Sensurround belongs in the same catagory as 'Smell-O-Vision,' 'Emergo,' 'Tingler,' and other gimmicks. The Academy Award people must have been really bored that year to award it an Oscar.
When I started working at that theater, the Sensurround people had left the 'shorty' (about 4ft high) equipment rack. There were two BGW amplifiers and a 'control box.' I barely remember opening the control box, and was a little surprised how empty it was. There were very little electronics in the box. They also had mounted a toggle switch on each projector, next to the solar cell. I never did know what exactly that switch was for (Gordon?)
They also left about 8 50-60ft lengths of thick gauge romex wiring, which ran from the amps out to the speakers, which we swiped for surround wires at another theater. We also bought the speakers, and used them as regular sub-woofers at a third theater. Sounded pretty good, too.
As a side note: In the IMDb "Trivia" for Earthquake it says: "The first film to be presented in surround sound."
Also, that the TV show "The Jetsons" in 1962 was presented in Sensurround.
Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 02-01-2000, 11:03 PM:
I was working as a relief operator when "Midway" came out. One screen in the four-plex was equipped for 'SENSURROUND'. They installed the subs across the front under the screen and placed two standing up in the back near the exit. These things were big enough to walk in(if it weren't for the chicken wire.) I don't remember how much power they were pushing, but it was a full rack of amplifiers. I watched a preview and remember being impressed by my pant-legs moving when the bombs dropped and the subs kicked in. Other than those few scenes, everything was about normal in glorious monophonic sound. The overall effect in the theater "Midway" was playing in was interesting. In the third theater over it was incredible! And that was a different film! Needless to say, they only used the 'SENSURROUND' system once. The next time I worked they had removed everything. Oh well.
Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 02-02-2000, 02:50 AM:
There are still a few cinemas around today that use the old Sensurround subs for digital subs.
David
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-02-2000, 10:11 AM:
The toggle switch turned the dbx card on
latter units actually had directional control of the rumble
Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 02-02-2000, 11:11 AM:
All this sub-woofer business made me go look in my dead files and sure enough I still have literature on one of the most interesting subs of all time. This thing was called the "Servodrive" (made by a company called "Intersonics") because it did not use a voice coil. Instead, it had a servo motor and a series of belts which pumped multiple cones inside a big folded cabinet. They could handle 400 Watts continuously and with a maximum cone excursion of about 1 1/4 inches they moved a lot of air. Some of their curves show spl's of 140 dB with a response ranging from 25 to 125 Hz. That's all well and good, but the real fun part comes from how and why they came to be. I quote from their literature:"Intersonics Acoustic Engineers were contacted by researchers from Cornell University who were studying African Elephant communication in Kenya, Africa. These elephants are able to communicate over long distances (5 miles or more) by the use of very low frequency sound.................." and so on for half a page.
I had a chance to play with one once, and what I heard mostly was the clicking of the internal mechanism. It was too bad for I really wanted to have an excuse to install an elephant caller.
------------------
Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering
Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 02-02-2000, 01:44 PM:
Our theater's soundsystem, while entry level at best, has been so well eq'd that you really cannot discern where the sound is coming from, just that you are in the middle of it. Our subs actually shake the ENTIRE BUILDING, and several times had the arcade next door comeing over to see if we were having problems. It got so bad that someone in the bathroom actually thought we were having an earthquake and wet himself trying to get out of there. Several lights had broken during showings of THE MATRIX. Yet we had not even passed the 85 db range. We frequently tell people in our ad to COME FEEL THE MOVIE. We have had to tone it down to avoid any further damage to the building, but you can still feel it. Todays new building are too safe and too sterile. Seeing a movie should be an experience, and sure why not life threatening. Take a chance man!------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"
Posted by David Koegel (Member # 25) on 02-02-2000, 02:28 PM:
I do remember reading about the military researching low frequencies for the purpose of disabling ground troops. From what I recall, when exposed to high power low frequencies, soldiers would double over and their lower alimentary canals (i.e., bowels) would start an abrupt evacuation (i.e.... oh, you get the picture). I believe the frequencies were below the threshold of human hearing, like 5 Hz and below.
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-02-2000, 05:25 PM:
Well it sounds like i did not miss anything from those 'SENSURROUND' days after all!
I'll stick to dts and turn up the subwoofer output if i want to go wild!
Posted by timothy johnson (Member # 83) on 02-02-2000, 06:04 PM:
I have a video of battlestar Galactica, and in the credits it says "presented in Senssuround" is that true? did anyone see it that way? the video has mono sound, so was the film even in stereo? also, I have installed Clark Synthesis sub-sonic transducers, and I swear by them ! it is the next best thing for your home theater! it really rocks, far below hearing, my 8 theater seat shake, in addition to my 18 inch sub with 400 watts.
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-02-2000, 06:49 PM:
For a small screening room (like mine) i like the ATC's or GENELEC's 1094 (they use(d) the GENELEC's at 20th Century fox sound stage) for large autoriums however i like JBL subwoofers.
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 02-02-2000, 08:20 PM:
To answer Tim's question, "Battlestar Galactica" was indeed a Sensurround film, a re-edit of the TV series to a feature. It seems to have been the last one. We set up one theater in our chain, the Shop City Cinema, (now a Blockbuster, fer chrissakes)for the system, and when Battlestar shipped out, the subs stayed. Nobody had any instructions on what to do with them, so all of the exterior wiring we ran stayed along with the subs behind the ground row at the front of the house, and it all remained until the place went dark years later.
Posted by timothy johnson (Member # 83) on 02-03-2000, 11:03 AM:
mark, how was the sound on battlestar ? I would like to have seen it that way. I would love to have a senssurround print for my collection, even if it was faded. Oh well. Iloved Battlestar as kid, every sunday night I would fight to watch it on the color tv set instead of the black and white 13 inch. My grandma wanted to watch 60 minutes. I still like seeing re-runs, as hokey as the show is.
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 02-04-2000, 09:34 PM:
To reply to your question, Tim, the Sensurround effect on Battlestar Gallactica was unimpressive. The effect was only on (as I recall) with shots of the fleet of ships crusing thru space, the same shot I had seen a buncha times on TV. There wasn't much to it at all. I guess Universal felt they had to add a few sfx cues to the track to get people into the theater to see what was after all a recut of the TV show.
Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 02-05-2000, 12:37 AM:
Speaking of Sensurround, if anyone knows of where I could get a processor on the cheap please let me know. 
--Chris
Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 02-05-2000, 09:32 AM:
I remember seeing BATTLESTAR GALACTICA in a theatre in Sensurround. This was a couple of years after I saw MIDWAY in Sensurround (at a different theatre in a different State). I thought the Sensurround effect in MIDWAY was just overpowering during the first half of the movie because it only came in short, powerful bursts. During the second half, when the action was more continuous, the Sensurround effect simply fit better and I really enjoyed it.BATTLESTAR GALACTICA was a different story. Mark Ogden is correct. The Sensurround moments were only used during the space scenes and, usually, that was only a smattering of wide-angle, "establishing shots" of the large ships in space (these shots were little more than bumpers between more dialog scenes).
I don't mean to change the subject, but I found the most impressive thing about the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA theatrical release was the change in aspect ratio from TV. Even the computer monitors and gizmos in the movie were wide, as if this thing had always been intended for a theatrical release. I was not an expert on aspect ratios when I saw that movie so I can't remember if it was flat or 'scope, but I tend to think it was 'scope.
I'm only aware of one other television show which was shot in 'scope (and this time I know it really was 'scope). The pilot for LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN was shot in 2.35 so that its producers had the option of releasing it theatrically overseas... just in case the TV show failed and they needed to recover their losses. NOW I wish someone would release that in a letterbox, video edition. In fact, lots of network TV shows today are shot in Super 35 and a 16 x 9 aspect ratio. (I work for one of them!) But they make sure the center portion can be shown in good, old 1.33 NTSC for the majority of viewers. I wish they'd offer us the chance to see the most popular shows at, say, 2:00 in the morning in letterboxed broadcasts to that we who don't have HDTV could see a little more of what we're missing!
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-05-2000, 08:15 PM:
At the time I remember being more impressed with Battlestar Galactica in Sensuround than I was with Star Wars in 70mm (talking sound only).The most impressive effect was when the fighters were launched from Galactica, my friends and I were shaken to pieces every time this happened.
In 1986 I helped pull this theatre (Village East End One)down and it still contained all the MCA Universal control boxes, instructions etc. We still have a couple of "W" bins in storage.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-05-2000, 08:30 PM:
<<I was not an expert on aspect ratios when I saw that movie so I can't remember if it was flat or 'scope, but I tend to think it was 'scope.>>All the Galactica films were flat.
---------------------------------
"By Your Command" 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 02-05-2000, 11:19 PM:
In the States, Battlestar Galactica was only on television!??
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-06-2000, 01:39 AM:
Ian Said:
"In the States, Battlestar Galactica was only on television!??"Shortly after the TV show was out there was at least one theatrical film of BG out there- I remember seeing it when I was a kid at Coddingtown...
Aaron
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-06-2000, 01:48 AM:
Two Galactica films were released in Australia, in addition to the TV show running at the time. The second release was "Mission Galactica - The Cylon Attack" it was not in sensurround. I heard it in Eparad Starlet with surrounds mounted in the ceiling!
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-06-2000, 12:28 PM:
On imdb.com i only found 9 titels listed as in 'SENSURROUND' are there not released anymore than that? the last film to be presented in 'SENSURROUND' is a titel from 1998??? called 'Escape from dino island' i've never heard of that titel before anyone?My favorite 'SENSURROUND' films are:
Earthquake (1974) Midway (1976) Battlestar Galactica (1978) Rollercoaster (1977)
Martin
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-06-2000, 01:55 PM:
I wouldn't trust the IMDb too much. As I noted above, it says that "The Jetsons" was in Sensurround.I'm not really putting down the IMDb. It's a huge database, requiring input from all kinds of people with different levels of techinal knowledge. Some mistakes are bound to happen.
Does anyone have the data on the control tones (or whatever) were used to switch Sensurround effects on?
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 02-06-2000, 06:54 PM:
Does anyone here know anything about ZOOT SUIT being in Sensurround. I remember reading ads for this at the Cinerama Dome in Sensurround. It might even have been something called Sunsurround Plus, that involved lighting somehow. I don't know the details, and I don't think it played anywhere else. Any information out there?Mark Lensenmayer
Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 02-06-2000, 09:57 PM:
As I recall, the only films ever released in Sensurround were from Universal, which also owned the Sensurround technology (or owned the company which made the stuff... or they made it themselves... or something like that). Even when Dolby Stereo took hold, Universal still tried to push Sensurround. Later, when Dolby Digital looked like it would have a lock on the Digital sound market, Universal introduced its own solution with DTS (and I'm sure someone else can look up the corporate links between DTS and Universal. There are links). Lucky for us, DTS turned out to be a much better idea than Sensurround.Back in the early 80s, when I thought 4-track magnetic was dead on 35mm, Universal presented SCARFACE and THE BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE IN TEXAS in Los Angeles in 4-track magnetic. There were never any optical, stereo prints of those films! Again, it seemed like Universal had a thing about rejecting Dolby when the rest of the studios had no problem with Dolby.
Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 02-07-2000, 10:52 AM:
"Whorehouse" did have some release in 4 track mag. I was doing a lot of free-lance work in those days including quite a bit for Universal and put it into a couple of houses in the northwest. Curiously enough, there was no surround track . Also, the man then in charge of such thing (now deceased) Watty Watson told me every time he got the chance that he had no use for Dolby stereo at all. It may well have been the "not invented here" syndrome which is so rampant in "Hollywood".------------------
Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering
Posted by Rob Brooks (Member # 186) on 02-07-2000, 03:33 PM:
I showed Earthquake back in the mid 70's in Sensurround. The first night plaster fell off the sides of the theater. The paint store next store came in the next morning to find all their shelves on the floor with paint all over the place. They sued the theater. The sensurround was removerd quickly. I guess it was a gimmick that didn't pan out. But I must say the earthquake affect worked more authentically then anyne expected.------------------
Rob
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-07-2000, 06:15 PM:
Best Little Whorehouse 4 track mag prints in Canada at least had surround tracks but they also required the 12K switching amplifier in the MPU to be set
I still remember it playing a theatre with Teccon preamps and the calls over the whistles in the surrounds . I told the manager they were wolf wistles for dolly parton funny he didn't buy that
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-10-2000, 01:09 PM:
IF ANYONE NEEDS A SENSURROUND UNIT TO DO A REVIVAL SHOWING OR THAT SORT OF THING LET ME KNOW AS I HAVE ONE. STILL IN THE BOX.