This is topic 'pop' at splices in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 02-11-2000, 12:47 PM:
 
Anyone have any tips on how to minimize the 'pop' sound at reel splices? I've noticed that most of the films we run are making this sound and it drives me nuts. Is it normal for me to be able to notice them? Or is it that I've just been in the theatre too much and every little imperfection jumps out at me when the ordinary movie goer doesn't even notice anything?

Any thoughts?
 


Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-11-2000, 12:59 PM:
 
You're absolutely right--splices that "pop" are very annoying.

Check out Brad's splicer mods--the pop is caused by a slight gap at the splice when, in fact, there should be a slight overlap. Even if the splice looks perfect when it is new, splices tend to separate over time.

If you receive a splicy print and don't want to re-make every splice (understandable if they are otherwise good), then you need to apply little pieces of "blooping tape" or a spot of "blooping ink" (both available from theatre suppliers) over each splice.

If you have a reel-to-reel setup and the sound changeover "pops" at each reel change, you should check the wiring and relays and make sure that all of the connections are clean and tight.
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-11-2000, 01:07 PM:
 
If it's a digital soundtrack, there shouldn't be any poping; if yours does, there might be a problem somewhere.

If it's the regular analog optical soundtrack, you might try:

Adjusting your splicer such that the two ends of the film fit closer together before taping. Also, that the splicer is cutting the film evenly and cleanly across. On the main "Film-Tech," page there is a nice article on tweaking your splicer, which might help you.

If the "pop" only happens after the film has been run for awhile, perhaps the "sticky" on the tape is not holding the film together, and the two ends are slowly parting. Try a different tape manufacturer. I like the Nuemade, but I'm sure there are other good ones.

Ask your equipment dealer for "blooping ink;" a very dark ink you can apply right at the splice line to block light. There are probably pens or inks you could just buy at Staples that will do the same thing, but you'd have to experiment with different makes.
 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2000, 01:13 PM:
 
For analog sound, with older "white light" (tungsten bulb) soundheads, the blooping ink/tape must be opaque to infrared energy. You can test this by covering a length of the analog soundtrack on an old trailer with the blooping material, and make sure little or no sound comes through.

With newer "red light" LED soundheads, the blooping ink/tape need only be opaque to red light. You can test it in the same way.

Properly "blooping" analog soundtrack splices seems to be a lost art.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
 


Posted by James Dunn (Member # 188) on 02-11-2000, 01:52 PM:
 
Thanks for the tips. I'd read the 'Splicing Tips' page before, but went back and re-read it just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Another question came up. The last picture show the splicing tape slightly off-centered to help durability. This sounds good, but what do you suggest when it's at a reel change that you're using zebra tape on?
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-11-2000, 02:17 PM:
 
Personally, I don't care for xebra tape. CPI puts out an edge marking tape that will not disturb the SDDS track and you might want to check with them on getting a roll so you can then use only clear tape.

If you need to use the xebra though, just pull it 1/2 down so there is not a line going down the joint and the markings are only over the SDDS track/sprockets. In other words, discard the parts where there is a straight line going across the film.
 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-11-2000, 03:23 PM:
 
Brad does that mean SDDS means SONY DOESN'T DO SPLICES

 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-11-2000, 05:22 PM:
 
About noisy sound...

Anybody else have black mylar that "motorboats" as it goes through? We ordered a whole huge roll of black mylar and got this junk. My mgr. won't order anymore 'cuz we "already spent too much" on mylar.

It seems that the black stripe on the soundtrack has little semi-transparent spots where the frame lines go all the way across the film. I've tried using all kind of ink to blot them out but I just make it sound worse.

The stuff looks real nice but it sounds like hell. I've not been using it until the old stuff becomes 100% unuseable. Now, I have to start using it. All the 'good' mylar is just about worn out!
 


Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 02-11-2000, 08:03 PM:
 
My splicer has no cutter blade. I use a good pair of scissors to cut the film so that there will be a very slight overlap when the pieces are put together.

When I remake existing splices that are pulling apart, or, sticky, I peel and clean everything, splice one side, then apply a tiny piece of soundtrack blooping tape to the soundtrack area on the other side before applying the splicing tape.

I find that this helps to quiet "pops" in the print, especially in quiet parts, and saves a frame. I always cut the ends of the bloop tape at a 45 degree angle to minimize the noise.

I know this takes alot of time, but I am doing preservation here.

These "blooped" splices pass thru my Holmes with no more movement than regular tape splices do.

They seem to play well in a real theater here in town where I run prints occasionally. Old rebuilt Century CC's with Christie lamphouses.

Is there anything I should know when it comes to which side I should bloop...Base or Emulsion? I've done it both ways and notice no difference in the image movement.
 


Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 02-11-2000, 11:08 PM:
 
My favorite quote in a movie - particularly if it is boring or bad - heard every 20 minutes or so...

"Cue mark... cue mark... flash... POP!"
 


Posted by Robb Johnston (Member # 239) on 02-12-2000, 01:26 AM:
 
Bruce, The black mylar that I have ordered in the past does nots not have frame lines across the entire width of the film. The blank area equates with the analogue soundtrack. The only time I have heard your motorboat effect was when it was attached backwards so the frame lines passed through the light beam.
 
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 02-12-2000, 09:43 AM:
 
That was Randy with the motorboating problem. I was thinking the same thing, though.

One feature I got (in IB) had "zillions" of well-made, but old splices. Splices that came during music, or talking did not get the bloop treatment. Only the ones in the quieter parts got blooped. It sounds alot better now.
 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-14-2000, 02:41 PM:
 
Randy,

It sounds like you have the Xetron leader. They make fantastic clear with black frame line leader that is the best on the market in my opinion, but their "black" mylar is crap (also my opinion). Every so many frames there is a very large clear space in the soundtrack. I have a feeling this is what you are referring to, as Cinemark has traditionally always purchased their leaders from Xetron.

The BB-100 from NT Audio Visual isn't quite as durable as the Xetron, but it's quiet. for the utmost in perfect black leader, check out Neumade's "Fiesta" leader. It has no emulsion and cannot be scratched. It is also as dark as the douser and as quiet as hitting the MUTE on your Dolby. The only problem with it is there are no frame line markings, so you must use your counter. I think the Fiesta leader runs around $75/1000 foot roll.
 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-15-2000, 04:13 PM:
 
I checked the leader out. It is Xetron. (Sucktron).

No, it isn't being threaded backwards. That's the first thing I checked when I heard the motorbotaing. It took me a couple of days to figure out what the hell was going on.

If you look at it under 'casual' conditions it looks normal. It's only when you look closer and shine some light through it that you notice. The frame lines go from edge to edge. It's just that they're very faint in the analog soundtrack area. It almost looks like a black stripe was painted down the film to make a soundtrack.

I've tried all sorts of things to make it work right. I tried black, red, green and blue magic markers. I've tried India ink and I've tried film-spotting dye. Problem is that often you make it worse. I think you're actually making the frame lines darker. (The film itself is not actually opaque.) The only thing that even partially worked is the spotting dye. That quiets the problem by about 90% and it's sooooooo labor intensive! Finally, I just said F*** it! I'll keep using the old stuff until it's dead. (I used to change mylar quite often. Now I almost never do it.) I guess I'm just going to have to live with this crappy leader until it's time to change it too. At that time I'll just specify that we have to have Neumade "Fiesta". (If somebody doesn't know how to use a frame counter, that's too damn bad.)
 


Posted by Nic Margherio (Member # 273) on 02-15-2000, 05:30 PM:
 
Randy, I don't know how much black leader you need, but I always save the 15 feet or so of black space at the beginning of Warner Brothers' films. It doesn't have frame lines, but it usually looks very good and also has an SRD and SDDS track of "digital silence." It works very nicely for me if I ever need to insert some space between previews or something.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-15-2000, 07:03 PM:
 
Hmmmm!..... Sneaky, I like that!

I'll have to remember it next time I build / tear down a W.B. movie!


I rarely tear them down anymore:
I work Thurs. afternoons and Fri. mornings at TT-17. (So I can do the bulk of the build-ups.)
I usually come in early to do the build-up at M.H. College and let the work study people do the break-downs. (I must say they are pretty good at it, too!)
 






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