If anyone can answer this question I would love to know.
We've got the same thing on our Cinemark policy trailers. (Now called "Image") I just told everybody that's where they have to put the outboard cue to lower the lights. It keeps people from cutting off the black at the beginning.
I thought you might respond to that. I'm just saying that the amount of theaters here that don't run off platters are almost zip. Those that still do run on 6k's but you've got to go a fair way to find one.
To put it simply, platters are the norm now and I think it's a good move to start leaving off cues. Why should 99% of the filmgoing public have to look at these things just so when "Ripley" (for example) gets to the little show out west in 3 months time they can do a changeover? Chances are that the print after that run will get junked anyway, so let him put his own cues on. He may even be quite good at putting them on.
I grew up with changeovers too (and loved doing them) but times have changed and I'm just saying I'm glad the labs and filmmakers are changing also.
The only positive thing I can see for them is
#1 For the changeover houses, as Scott is right, theater scratched cues are damn annoying, and
#2 To help keep track of the reel numbers during a screening (useful for those late Thursday night calls to Technicolor).
Still though, we would all be better "as a whole" (not for changeover houses of course) to eliminate them.
My 1967 GWTW print has double cues like that. The black ones are in the right place for the cropped image. Still dont like it....
Dont get rid of cues. Somebody out there is going to run it reel-to-reel somewhere, someday, and will need them. X's scratched on the print look like shit.
Most people (who are not use to projection) don't notice them.
Also, I have used c/o's for other things. I've had to break down prints where there were two or three splices near the c/o point. (From people who screw up when making up or breaking down.) If there was no c/o mark, and there's no picture frame left on the heads or tails, you couldn't be sure of where the actual c/o was.
A minor point, (and shows should be made up correctly, anyway) but the "OQ" (Operator Quality) index is a little low these days.
Mr. Norwood, 70mm projection magazines are specified for use with 22" reels and as such are not "rare" in the reel-to-reel world and hold 2 35mm reels comfortably. The Uptown in DC runs with this size reel.
The fact that the bulk of the industry uses platters (a big mistake in my opinion) is no justification for the elimination of the cues. As others have pointed out, they can be useful for finding reels joins.
Prints should stay with the 2000' shipping reel and keep the cue marks till the end of distribution on film.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
ding 1 - start the motor
ding 2 - hit the changeover button
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Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com
While I wouldn't mind having some other kind of mark on reels ends, (to identify the last frame) tyhat means editor or labs have create a method to do it. The regular c/o method is already here. Perhaps a compromise; Instead of 4 frames with a dot, only do two; or make them smaller; or don't fill the dot- just have a light ring.
Now, I don't have facts and figures or anything, but I would agree that running a 4000 ft. reel is rare. Of all the theaters, I bet 90% are running platters. Of the 10% still doing c/o's, I bet most of them have had their magazines removed, and just have arms. Many theaters (in the late 50's and early 60's) put on 6000 ft. magazines for 3D, or to take advantage of carbon arcs that would run an hour. There might be some other reasons to run 4000 ft. reels, but magazine size limitation is not one of them.
I say we eliminate SDDS and start with the odd reel/dark edges and even reel/clear edges pattern! Also, the first frame of each reel should be repeated at the end of the countdown (like Technicolor does with repeating the title and reel number) and the same should hold true for the last frame. Anyone who couldn't break a print down properly under those circumstances should be shot.
The world simply does not have any use for SDDS, and it seems like Paramount has better plans for the space, anyway.
Normally I can see where the reel changes are, but I have to slow down when I get close to look for the splice. But when you do it like Paramount does it, you know if you've gone past, and you won't need to slow down simply because you can still see everything at top speed.
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Don't speculate...
The Norelco AAII is a 4500' magazine including the lower base. There are more 22"x8" reels out there than you would guess.
We put in a fair number of changeover houses and it is true the bulk run on 2000' reels some do use 6000' reels and without exception, the 70mm houses get 4500 foot reels...it is a standard Goldberg reel (complete with the 35/70 spacers).
But back to the cue mark thing...99% of the patrons not familiar with changeovers (heck most patrons think there is a "tape" up there coming out of the "cameras." If the average movie goer noticed the cues, I would agree, the cue needs to be changed.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
1) It helps you keep track of time when you're screening the movie.
2) It helps you know where to cut the film.
3) It's fun to explain them to people that you don't like and drive them crazy for the rest of their life!
Yup! Gotta go along with that one!
You do get prints cue-less from time to time but they are normally the more obscure arthouse titles, not something starring that 'great Academy Award Winning actress' Gwyneth Paltrow.
What gives? Has anyone been consulted?
99.99% of the audience has never noticed one. I've even explained them to people and they still don't notice them. Hand-scratched cues are bad.
I got a sample roll of something called "edge mark tape." It's the same as yellow splice tape, but only 1/4" wide. The idea is to use it to mark reel changes. 1/2" is enough to be able to see easily. It comes in handy if a print has lots of splices. I also place a short piece at the beginning of the credits. A quick glance at the platter during the movie gives me a clue how long it is until the credits begin to roll.
I am sure too, that you would be surprised at just how many reel to reel cinemas there are still operating , in Aus anyway .......I would prefer to see a movie at one.....in my experience you get a better product.
Keep the cues.....it is like has been said before, if the leaders get mixed, it helps to sort the mess out......any many other reasons.
Keep smiling All......Chris
1. The audience does not even notice them.
2. Cues help orientate the "Joe" projectionist who can't other wise tell the end of the reel.
3. The cues assist in knowing exactly when a fade-out has ended and the tail commences.
4. If cues are left off, all those wonderful new restoration and revival prints of classics will have home-made cues scratched into the last 10 feet of every reel, by a desperate under-trained changeover operator.
5. Almost all theatre circuit headquarters, film distributors and Hollywood studio theatrettes run two projectors.
The wheels are turning...
AND YESSSS!!! I had it framed properly...
I thought it was kinda odd.
I didn't see where anyone had answered this question, so I'll step in. The single frame of a cue mark at the end of the SMPTE Universal leader was intended for use in television (that's why it's called a universal leader, it was designed for both theatrical and television use). This cue is not put on by the lab.
In operation, this was the "take" cue, where the television master-control operator had to pre-roll commercials on film, he would watch the countdown on his "Preview" monitor. When he saw the blip of the single-frame in preview, he hit "Take" to put that machine on the air. If you watch this leader for the cue, it will be seen immediately before the picture comes on (or fades in)....in about the time it would take you to press a button.
That's what that cue is for.
Today, however, everything's automated and either on video tape or a server. Videotape spot machines pre-roll themselves. I worked at a TV station that had 12 U-matic machines hooked to a DTMF decoder; this was the spot machine. 5 different control tones were on audio ch1. If all the tones were picked up properly, the machines sequenced themselves. You only had to start it off at the break, and then keep them loaded with the next commercial (what a dance!). Of course, that was the way it was SUPPOSED to work!
I sat here for several days trying to remember "Take" cue.
I, too, danced among the U-matic machines.
I have fond liquid FreonŽ memories, at least I think I do.
Many's the time I had a bottle squirted into my back at close range. SH*T that stuff was cold! (But very good at clearing head clogs).
I remember the techs used to go ballistic if we tried to clear a head clog on the run on the 2inch RCATR70 or the TR60. (they were not of the addage 'the show must go on'). They wanted us to put up the crash caption and remove the tape, carefully clean each head and continue...
HA! As if that would ever happen! Our tapes used to sit on the tarmac of airports all over Australia (very hot tarmacs) for long periods of time. This is not the ideal surroundings for video tapes and as such, most of our tapes shed oxide like a muthaf**kka. If we actually stopped every time, we'd be getting ratings on the crash caption instead of the program 'cos it would have been up so much.
I know this is film-tech and not video-tape-operator-tech so I apologize. (Personally, I blame the Freon )
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
We had 4 TR-7's (TR-70?) that took forever to lock up. All air films had an 8 second cue on them due to this. When we got a pair of Ampex VT-2000's we retired 2 of the TR-7's
What an improvement.
I had an engineer buddy that could yell at the TR-7 and make it work. Honest!
FreonŽ wars. Got shot in the back while loading a 90 minute 700 club VT late at night. Tape bounced on the floor. Bent reel. Show would mess up every turn of the reel. Nobody ever called to complain.
TV was fun back then. I learned waaay to much to say here.
TV was fun in those days... 16mm live to air...2 inch tape...RCA-TCR100's that stuffed up the auto thread every other break...TR60's that would lose lock if you broke wind...(well, you get the idea).
Our TR70 would lock in four secs and in two secs from a standby mode. The TR60 ALWAYS took 7 secs even from standby.
Then along came one inch tape and everything changed...
My happiest moment was switching on air (the only person in the whole building) one Saturday night and being able to run Rocky Horror for the first time on televsion. I don't know what everyone else was doing, but I made sure I had a pizza delivered and some good ol' Bundaberg Rum with me for my own private party. I had the machine it was on patched into EVERY input and Every monitor I could and turned them all up to eleven.
(They tell me the night went off without a hitch... )
Speaking of the 700 Club... we taped that show off the air (CBN), and broadcast it immediately after it ended on the network. This meant we couldn't record the whole hour on one tape because there was no time to rewind it before it aired, much less cue it up. So we put it on 2 tapes (first half & last half), which overlapped each other for a few minutes about half way through the show. This would allow us to catch the last half up to the point of the overlap on the first and get them synced-up frame-for-frame. The changeover was completely undetectable. It was pretty slick. The engineering chief used to get mad at me because he'd spend 10 minutes speeding up and slowing down the second machine, to get it frame-accurate to the first tape, while I could sync them EVERY TIME in mere seconds! I would pause the catch-up machine on a scene change and wait for the corresponding shot to come up on the air, when I would release the pause. It worked everytime! (Of course, I didn't tell him my secret.)
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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.