Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Joes Splicer Review

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-24-2000, 10:57 AM:

Wow! Thank God for Joe Redifer and his reviews. I usually agree with them and I certainly will back his review of the CIR splicer!! That thing is really a piece of junk. Its about time that someone posted a review of it. Personally in my opinion there is not a good splicer on the market at this time except for the ultrasonic splicers and they are megabucks. Even the beloved Neumade splicer is built like junk too. It performs very well if properly maintained, but it's also very cheaply made and falls apart way way too fast. I still enjoy using my Meier Hancock cement splicer to splice my personal stuff simply because its so well made and if you do it right the splices won't come apart.
One splicer I can reccommend is the Cinema Products International Cinesplicer. Its priced lower than both the others. The only beef I have is that the pins are a bit undersize and the film sometimes falls off it more easily. Its build quality is about the same as the Neumade, perhaps a bit better, but it has far fewer parts, seems to stay together longer under the high abuse of booth kids, and a big bonus is that the parts are far cheaper to buy than either the Neumade or Ciro.
Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-24-2000, 04:02 PM:

Thanks for the comments! I actually kind of rushed through that particular review, meaning that I didn't mention everything I should have about the splicer. I neglected to mention that they are virtually impossible to clean, and it is a chore to replace blades. Not only that, but it applies the tape unevenly over the cut! You have the tape covering 3 perfs on one side of the cut, and only 2 on the other side! What's up with that?

You'd have better luck using chewing gum to keep your splices together.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-24-2000, 04:08 PM:

I have one CIR splicer and it works fine, only small problem is it cant always punch out all of the perfs in the splicing tape you have to check/remove them by hand. For the most times there are none to remove, sometimes you have to remove 1-2 peaces of tape, it sucks yes, but i got the splicer for free so i am not to upset by that, i can live with it. Joe, nice that you finally got time to make your february review after all it's almost march

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-24-2000, 06:51 PM:

Well I happen to like the CIR splicers over the netaper
If there is 2 layers of tape across the bridge I never have jagged edges and if the blades are kept clean they last for years
The reason the holes sometimes have bits of tape in them is peole clean out the holes in the bridge. The manual actually states to never clean them out
Also the 3/2 perf splice hinges less. Also with older acetate prints the moveable pins are very handy with shrunken stock
Also it is available to cover 2 full frames with tape for labs
Also I don't think neumade has a splicer for 70mm except for the Imax zigzag
The worst splicer is the marble/cpi one that is made in china
Also there are many knockoff's of the CIR splicer that are just plain junk

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 02-24-2000, 08:23 PM:

Gordon,

NeuMade does infact have a 70mm version of its splicer, its just a big brother to the 35mm version.

But you still can't beat the ultrasonic splicers for Polyester for any format.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-24-2000, 10:12 PM:

You're right. The CIR's are s**t. If you've got four in the building, you may have one that works well but the rest will be utter crap.

I've only ever had one that was great and I'm sure that was a freak of splicer nature.

The 70mm version of them was very good though. Although again, I've only ever used two of those but with the law of CIR averages...

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 02-24-2000, 10:46 PM:

I have have a CIRO splicer at the Skyline drive in and I LOVE IT!! I keep it cleaned and lubed and it works great for me. I wouldn't have any other splicer. In fact I also have my own personal 16mm Ciro splicer, too.

Joe, I'd be happy to take your CIRO splicers (for free).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-25-2000, 01:58 AM:

Perhaps I should set up a forum for "splicer trading between theaters"???

Personally, I agree with Joe. They are not too swingin' in my book, but not as bad as Marble splicers! Egad. The Neumade is the best tape splicer on the market. However, I DO wish they would make an 8 perf version of it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-25-2000, 05:57 AM:

Martin,

Nobody ever said I would have the reviews ready by the first of the month (did they?).
Just wait until I do my July reviews on July 31 and my August reviews on August 1! Just kiddin', of course.

Ah well, the entire world doesn't have to agree with me about splicers, but they MUST agree with me about the CA21 automation. It is mandatory. Same with FilmGuard, of course, but that is simply common sense.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-25-2000, 12:39 PM:

Gord,
The Cinesplicer comes from Japan, not China. The cheapo CIR clone rides in on 747's from India. Neumade makes a straight 70mm splicer. It is probably the most common 70mm splicer in the states. It works very well but suffers the same problems the small ones have, mainly durability and parts that are priced way too high. CIR does make a variety of splicers but they all suffer the same problems. Crappy cutter blades, The alignment feature was not seen through all the way like it should have been, it makes the perfs longer,and causes a picture jump, severe in some cases, they also fall apart too easily as well. BTW: even keeping the cutter clean does not assure that it will cut. Alignment of the cutter seems to matter far more and aligning it is a pain. Personally I really like the ultrasonic jobs the best. Think about it, in the life of a theater they could buy one of those for about 3K US, it would last as long as the theater , or longer in some cases, and you do not have to buy a new CIR or Neumade every 1.5 to 2 years.
Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-25-2000, 04:19 PM:

Note that the CIR splicer that I reviewed was the "Special Edition". It says so right on the damn thing.

Geeesh. I wonder how their "Normal Edition" or "Not Very Special Edition" splicers perform? Yikes!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-25-2000, 04:32 PM:

I've got a no-name, el Cheapo splicer here at Mercyhurst. Sometimes it doesn't cut the tape cleanly.

I've found that if you pull the tape tight and rub it down to the crossbars it cuts better. Actually, the same thing goes for the Neumade! It's just that the crossbars are a lot closer to the blade on the Neumade. Remember, the splicer doesn't cut like scissors. It sort of shaves the edges of the film. If the tape is not tight it sags and gets caught between the blade and the matrix plate. The tape tears instead of being shaved off cleanly.

Still, I keep a utility knife with a fresh razor blade in it near the splicing table at all times. Sometimes you get in a hurry and forget to stretch the tape.

-------------------

One time the G.M. at Tinseltown asked me how long it takes to make a good splice. (He was trying to trick me... A quick splice is a BAD splice.) I just gave him a puzzled look and said, "Gee, I've never timed myself. I didn't think I was in a race!.
He was kinda' pissed when his 'joke' didn't work on me.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-25-2000, 08:01 PM:

Mark The one I through in the garbage said made in china
I have never had any complaints with my CIR's

Posted by Stefan Scholz (Member # 147) on 02-27-2000, 01:00 PM:

Don't blame more than neccessairy on CIR. It is abou $ 200 net ex works, and therefore oK. It is the most common splicer in Europe, in fact anything else sold was inferior crap from Check republik, china, and so on.
Hpow much would it cost to newly make my 70mm "American Optical Company" splicer today. I would not like to think about it. Compare price and performance, and with little bit of caretaking and adjustment it gives quite acceptable results.
I own splicers for 16, 35mm regular and scope, as well as a "70 mm 4 mag track" version. All are called "special edition".
But in theory I agree, the Neutape is far better. I love my old AO cement splicer...

Posted by Carl Welles (Member # 59) on 02-27-2000, 01:52 PM:

You own a 35mm regular splicer AND a 35mm scope splicer. Wow!

What the heck is that all about? Am I missing something?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-27-2000, 02:03 PM:

With cement splices (which don't work on ESTAR-base stocks), you're supposed to use a different type of splicer for scope; the idea is that the CinemaScope splicer would have smaller registration pins (to accommodeate square perfs on mag-striped 35mm film) and a narrower overlap (to be less noticeable on screen). With tape splices, this isn't an issue, since there's no overlap (though the pins might still need to be smaller for mag); just make sure not to use the kind of "zebra" tape that makes a big "H" to mark the splice--the line across the frameline is almost always visible in scope.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 02-27-2000, 02:23 PM:

If i remember correctly Mr. Harris works with a CIR 70mm splicer during the film-restoration of 'My Fair Lady' can be seen if you have the laserdisc of the film which has a program about the restoration at the end

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 03-02-2000, 11:21 PM:

OK Guys. Here goes. What is wrong with the Marble splicers? After reading the previous posts, I looked under mine and found it is made in Japan. Also, where might a boob like me get new cutting blades for one?

Mine seems to do a good job... IF i am careful to line-up the edges!

I used a Neumade this weekend that made splices that I could not feel.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-02-2000, 11:46 PM:

My inventory says that I am supposed to have TWO nuemade splicers... instead I have ONE Marble splicer. While it does a job, it it a pain in the beehind. The splices are not very clean and they go through the projector like rocks. Would be nice to know what happened to my Nuemades....

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 03-03-2000, 12:48 AM:

run a motiograph and you can use masking tape or paper clips like Tom Moyer,s projectionist did.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-03-2000, 04:13 AM:

Bruce: The Neumade produced splices that you could not feel? That's awesome! I bet you couldn't even hear those run through the projector.

It really does depend what type of splicing tape you use with each splicer as well. Neumade splicers do well with Neumade tape.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 03-03-2000, 08:15 AM:

Joe:
The owner of the Neumade splicer bought it new about a year ago. When using it, he told me to just pop the film into the guides, and go to it. The holes are perfectly punched out, and there is nothing sticking out at the edge of the film.

The projector image does not move when the splice passes. They look great.

He uses Neumade tape. He gave me a roll to use with the Marble. My splices look and feel the same no matter what tape I use.

Can I get blades anywhere for my Marble? Maybe new blades will help with film edges.
Bruce

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-03-2000, 10:52 AM:

Yes, The Neumades do a nice clean job, but then they are made out of pot metal, are way way to expensive, and fall apart too fast.
Mark

Posted by Bryan Redemske (Member # 354) on 03-03-2000, 11:13 AM:

Neumades are falling apart? ours is built like a damn tank - it's awesome. of course, some jackass stepped on it or threw it or something and busted the handle ($150), but that's it. i love it. we have a couple of other ones too, but i'll have to take a look at them. they don't see the light of day too much.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 03-03-2000, 05:47 PM:

I've only used Neumade splicers, and I've found I need to take some time to get the film to line up perfectly, but when it does, the splice remains steady on the screen and does not make a sound. My method of getting the film lined up in the splicer is to align the analog tracks; however, the film may shift around before I have a chance to tape it.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 03-04-2000, 05:57 AM:

Dear Brad, how about some pictures of all the different types of splicers avalibel, i would like to see the ultrasonic splicer, maybe with pictures of how to use it. Also some pics of the cement splicer would be nice. How does the ultrasonic work, does it use some sort of heat?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-04-2000, 02:43 PM:

Martin:

Check out the website for the Metric Ultrasonic Splicer:
http://www.metricsplicer.com

The Model 3001 would be the one normally used by theatres.

Hollywood Film Company has also just introduced an ultrasonic splicer:
http://www.hollywoodfilmco.com/Splicer.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-04-2000, 02:45 PM:

Joe will be reviewing my Metric model 3001 splicer in the coming months.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 03-05-2000, 08:12 AM:

I find the Ultrasonic splicer very expensiv around $3200 + plate. I still dont understand how it works, does it use some sort of heat source to melt the film together, or is it a chemical thing?

Taken the high price, i guess it's mostly used in labs and at first class theaters who want the best splicer around.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-07-2000, 01:47 AM:

Martin:

As I explained in another posting, the ultrasonic splicer cuts the film so there will be a slight overlap. The overlapping ends of the film are pressed into intimate contact with an ultrasonic transducer ("horn" or "anvil") vibrating at about 50 kilohertz. The ultrasonic energy causes the molecules in the thermoplastic polyester support to vibrate, generating heat, and melting the two pieces together creating a strong weld. Although the emulsion is not usually scraped from the area being spliced, the emulsion trapped within the weld makes the splice more unsightly, and as a "contaminant" to the weld, may weaken the splice.

An ultrasonic splicer will NOT work well with nitrate or triacetate film, since they are not thermoplastics, and char rather than melt when heated.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 03-07-2000, 06:23 AM:

John,

Thanks for the reply, as i dont have many polyester prints in my collection i dont see the need to invest $3000+ for a ultrasonic splicer. As i understand 'sonic' splicers do not work well on acetate film, i'll stick to the tape splicer