Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Goodbye to the movie business, hello to the movie business.....

This is topic Goodbye to the movie business, hello to the movie business..... in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-24-2000, 04:16 PM:

With all the big multiplexes going up and shutting little guys like me down, It brings me such great joy to announce our own megamultigigaplex going up this year (WITH IMAX YIPPEE SKIPEEE). The advantage is that we own the 26 acres surrounding it so there is NO WAY that we can get built out by competition like we did in Aurora.

Yeah and Im santa claus.....

Actually I myself am about to embark into a new company that produces live and film entertainment but I swear I will never ever never ever stop playing with film-guard no matter what!

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-24-2000, 09:33 PM:

Dave Williams
but I swear I
will never ever never ever stop playing with film-guard no matter what!
Just don't use it on the IMAX

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-25-2000, 02:16 AM:

Don't use it on IMAX because IMAX uses Photoguard. And we all know how much that sucks!

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 03-25-2000, 07:47 AM:

What is FilmGuard? I use a product from Marble Co. that is called Xecote Film Lubricant. Is FilmGuard similar?

Carl King

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-25-2000, 01:42 PM:

It's totally different. Click on the FilmGuard link at the bottom of your screen.

Posted by Andy Davis (Member # 262) on 03-25-2000, 11:38 PM:

Isn't Xekote produced by Neumade?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-26-2000, 12:14 AM:

Yes, Neumade makes XeKote. I think they also make Renovex. We (Film-Tech) make FilmGuard.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-26-2000, 08:49 AM:

Actually Imax only uses photguard if the theatre buying the print requests it
The reason you cannot use any lubricant/non evaporating cleaning is the film is in contact with what is in effect the back ellement of the lens (called the field flatner) Any oils or liquid will smear it and then your focus goes to hell
also it has a proprietary coating that even certain lens cleaners will attack

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 03-27-2000, 07:31 PM:

Andy,
According to our booth supplier, Xekote is no longer manufactured. Apparently one of the active ingredietes in Xekote causes cancer and that was enough to ban it. Can anyone confirm that Xekote is no longer made?
Aaron

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-27-2000, 09:31 PM:

I'm 99% sure that is correct, but of course there's TONS of bottles "on the shelf".

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-27-2000, 11:51 PM:

I was at a Century 16-plex tonight, and they had some stuff made by the same company called Xetron2 or something like that. Maybe it is a new mix.

Posted by Andy Davis (Member # 262) on 03-27-2000, 11:52 PM:

One of the projectionists at my theatre is an Environmental Policy major. He told me that XeKote contains a CFC, great as a solvent but also great at making holes in the ozone layer. I wouldn't be surprised if production has ceased. However, NCS is now carrying a product called Xekote II. I'm guessing this is the environmentally friendly version of XeKote.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-28-2000, 07:35 AM:

The dang stuff always evaporated half way before you ever got the bottle opened the forst time anyway. The new Renovex is called Renovex2. Don't know how good it is. anyone ever use it? We still have 2 cans of the origonal Renovex in stock if anyone is interested in it.
Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-28-2000, 10:46 AM:

Many of the proprietary film cleaners and lubricants contained methyl chloroform (1,1,1-trichloroethane) or perhaps Freon as the solvent. These solvents were very effective in cleaning film, dried quickly, were non-flammable, and were relatively safe to use with proper ventilation. Wax or lubricant could easily be dissolved in these solvents for use in lubricating the film.

Unfortunately, the use of these chlorinated solvents may harm the ozone layer that protects the earth from ultraviolet radiation. By international agreement ("The Montreal Protocol"), the manufacture of these solvents was discontinued about 5 years ago. However, at the time, existing supplies of the solvent could be continue to be used, although no more would be manufactured. They could also be recycled by distillation. Some film cleaner manufacturers "stocked up" on the solvent before manufacture was discontinued, or are using recycled solvent. But as supplies are depleted, the price has gone up considerably, forcing manufacturers like XeKote and Renovex to reformulate their cleaners.

Several alternative solvents are available, but they each have disadvantages to consider. Pure isopropyl alcohol (NOT rubbing alcohol which has water in it) can be used as a film cleaner. It has fairly good cleaning ability and reasonably fast evaporation rate, but is flammable. Tetrachloroethylene or "perc", a solvent widely used for dry-cleaning clothes, can be used, but evaporates slowly, and has significant health risks. Toluene likewise has health risks and is flammable. Hydrofluorocarbons have a very fast evaporation rate, and are quite expensive.

To know what solvents are in your film cleaner, and what safety precautions are needed to properly use it, consult the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) supplied by the manufacturer.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Bryan Redemske (Member # 354) on 03-28-2000, 12:37 PM:

Renovex makes my brain hurt.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-28-2000, 02:15 PM:

There are alot of places that you can't and shouldn't use Filmguard. Several that come to mind are:
Film shown on a rolling loop projector.
Camera Negatives.
Internegatives and Interpositives.
Film to be archivally stored.
Film undergoing restoration.
Magnetic Media...IE: FullCoat,or mag stripe.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-28-2000, 02:19 PM:

Solvent-based film cleaners MUST be used with proper ventilation. Breathing of vapors and skin contact should be avoided. If your "nostrils are on fire" or your "brain hurts", you are getting too much exposure to the vapors.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-28-2000, 06:37 PM:

FilmGuard does not harm magnetic media. I have run fullcoat mag through it many times and Brad has run tons of 70mm mag prints.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-28-2000, 07:19 PM:

I've got tons of test film stored with an excessive amount of FilmGuard on it (some 10 years old) that is still absolutely pristine! I've also got plenty of magnetic prints (several years old as well) with FilmGuard on them. It greatly cleans up the magnetic tracks.

As to rolling loop projectors, yes this is a no no. Camera negatives/interpositives/film undergoing restoration? It's never really been tested with those, although it was never formulated with that in mind.

The only other thing FG shouldn't be used on is 3M's Photoguarded prints. Note: TES is using something called Imageguard which is similar to Photoguard, but works nicely with FG.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-29-2000, 02:15 AM:

What happens is you will get horrible black lines of dots down your screen (and they are pretty big and VERY noticeable) when you soak the pads and run them on a film coated with Imageguard. This will go away after a few runs. But it looks like the print from hell at first. This happens every time you resoak or change the pads. Using FilmGuard with it does help shedding and projector "quietness" since Imageguard is applied on the image area of the base side only.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-29-2000, 12:26 PM:

As far as camera negs, interpositives, and internegs go I always think of those in archival terms only. The same goes for 35mm full coat and 35mm striped mag film. These are also sound records of whatever and since no one knows the extremely long term effects of Film Guard that is my sole reason. As far as general release prints go thats obviously THE only way to go, mag or not. The life span there is way far short of the original stuff what ever format it may be.
Mark

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-29-2000, 02:39 PM:

Back to the "dont use it on IMAX, its photoguarded" and the follow up "but you can get it not photoguarded", i have a couple of questions..

I know that there is the 8 perf blow down on 70 mm imax, but isnt the actual imax format in 200 mm? there isnt a way of applying filmgaurd to this at the present time as far as i am aware of. I am not yet sure if we are going full imax or the cheaper suckier blowdown version.

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-29-2000, 03:24 PM:

Dave, Imax is 70mm film that is 15 perfs per frame. It runs horizontally through the projector like VistaVision does. The 8 perf 70mm(vertically running) version is definately a sucked down version of Imax. At Jordan Commons the screen is actually way too big for 8 perf 70mm. Man some Imax screens aren't that big. That particuluar system is being taxed way beyond its limits and Larry Miller should have really put in an actual Imax system. Thats a prime spot in SLC for that sort of thing and he definately blew it big time. The real pisser here is that he could very easily afford to buy Imax Corp. in its entireity!!
Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-31-2000, 06:50 PM:

In the big arena of 15 perf 70mm there are 3 players
IMAX
Iwerks
World Odessey (ultra70) (CFS)
Cinemecanica( they got out of it after one machine a Vic8 on its side)

In the 10 perf
Goto Optical
modified century

In the 8 perf
Iwerks (Pioneer Linear Loop projector (academey award winner)
Super 70 modified Pro35/70 (CFS lamphouse)
Omni Films Modified Pro35/70
MegaSystems (Hitech) A twin intermittent Ballantyne Pro35/70
VistaScope a modified norelco AA2 with CDS