Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: cleaning procedures

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Posted by Richard Quesnelle (Member # 391) on 03-28-2000, 11:15 PM:

Hi film handlers.

I was just wondering if there is a certain routine that many use in cleaning the projector equipment before, after, and weekly showings.

At the cinema that I work at, we clean the sprocket and the inside with an old toothbrush and wipe down the inside to pick up any oil and dirt. We also wipe the lenses with a lens tissue fairly often.

That's about all we do (or should I say was tought). If anyone has any tips or routines to follow, I would gladly appreciate the help.

Thanks
Reg

Posted by Scott Magie (Member # 368) on 03-29-2000, 04:18 AM:

Dip that toothbrush in some isopropyl alcohol and replace your toothbrushes fairly often. Gotta hate it when you get a bristle in the gate!
Anyone have a favorite "de-greaser"? We just use some generic industrial brand.
Also, I've heard that you're supposed to keep both alcohol and de-greaser away from the sound drum / solar-cell. The rumor is that it can dry out and crack the plastic elements. Anyone know if this is an old projectionist's wives tale or not?

------------------
Scott A. Magie

scoooot@bigsky.net
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-29-2000, 04:41 AM:

Red shop rag for everything except the sprockets and shoe. Toothbrush on the sprockets and shoe if needed (don't run the motor while doing this).

Best degreaser on the market is "LPS Instant Super Cleaner/Degreaser". Fantastic stuff! Keep it away from those sound drum bearings. Always spray it onto a cloth/rag and THEN wipe the area.

Be careful about overcleaning lenses.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-29-2000, 07:21 AM:

Shop rag is good. I've also used Q-tips, which can be useful on 16mm equipment, though the foam-tip ones are definitely preferred over the cotton ones.

Rubbing alcohol works, although 98% alcohol is better. Keep the alcohol away from film (duh). Clean all the usual stuff--gate and trap are most important, but fire rollers/platter rollers are also important. Generally, I didn't touch the sound optics, since they shouldn't get dirty unless the projector is over-oiled or something. If I'd had the soundhead alignment test films, then I would have been more aggressive with the soundheads. Be careful around plastic parts.

Toothbrushes are good for sprockets, shoes, pad rollers, etc.

Don't clean lenses unless they're obviously dirty. Just keep them in a lens cabinet or, at least, with caps on when they're not in use and they should be fine as long as the projector isn't horribly over-oiled.

I usually just used VMAP naptha from the local hardware store as my preferred degreaser since it is readily available and cheap. I'm sure that there's better stuff out there, though.

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 03-29-2000, 09:24 AM:

As mentioned, sound optics do not need cleaning very often, but there is always a bit of oil film floating around inside a projector, to say nothing of the pop corn oil wafting through the HVAC system. My suggestion for our sound reader optics is to use Kodak's lens cleaner, a cotton swab, and lens tissue. Put a little bit of the cleaner on the swab, wrap the swab with a layer or two of the lens tissue and gently go over the lens. Follow with a dry tissue over the other end of the swab. It also does not hurt to give the LEDs a swipe as well. We deliberately shorten the lens hoods on our lenses to make it easier to do.

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Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-29-2000, 09:43 AM:

Keep degreaser away from ANY bearings. Use a hard-bristle, clean toothbrush to clean deposits off rollers, sprockets, gate rails, etc. Use non-metallic pick (e.g, plastic guitar pick, hardwood or plastic manicure tool) to dislodge any hardened gelatin buildup on gate. Metal or abrasive tools may nick or damage polished surfaces. Never clean the projector while the motor is running --- a rag or toothbrush caught by a turning sprocket spells disaster, not to mention the personal safety issue.

Loose dust on lenses is best brushed away with a clean, soft camels hair lens brush. Compressed air may force dirt into the lens. Never rub the optical surfaces with a dry cloth or tissue, and use liquid lens cleaner and lens cleaning tissue only when there is dirt that cannot be brushed away (e.g., a fingerprint or oil spot). When using liquid lens cleaner, just slightly dampen the lens tissue, and be careful not to get liquid into the lens.

Don't forget to clean both sides of the port glass. Use the same care as in cleaning a lens, so as not to scratch the surface. Anti-reflection coated, optical quality glass is highly recommended to increase light output and reduce flare.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-29-2000, 10:39 AM:

I use a soft brass bristle machinist brush for cleaning sprockets and the red shop rag
Also once a week we spray the operating sides down with mineral spirits in a light mist and wipe the finish clean and then lightly oil all parts

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 03-29-2000, 01:27 PM:

I never clean my lenses, if it's only dust sitting there i leave it, heck you can't see any differents anyway, you just scracth that surface a littel bit each time you rub on it.

Of cause the cinemeccanica's never leaks any oil anyway, so no need to worry about oil on the lenses

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-29-2000, 01:28 PM:

What about cleaning the port glass? I have tried everything I know and it still comes out looking CRUMMY! This has been a thorn in my side for years!

One of the managers used to get on my case about it all the time. We got in an argument over it one morning and I said, "Here! You show me how to clean it!". She did and it looked great but once you turn the projector on and the light hit it you'd think a dog had been licking the glass! She stopped harassing me about it but that still doesn't get the glass clean.

I've tried all sorts of store-bought cleaners, 100% alcohol, industrial cleaners -- Nothing seems to work. The best thing I can do is use regular old Windex.
I spray sparingly (2-3 squirts) and wipe with a clean paper towel until almost dry. Then I take another clean towel and wipe again until it's completely dry.

I know the glass is just plain old plate glass but you should still be able to get it clean! Heck, at Mercyhurst, it's tempered glass and I have far better luck getting that clean!

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-29-2000, 02:47 PM:

My philosophy in cleaning the port glass is very simple, less is more. I hate chemicals (due in part to the fact that they hate me more). We use DAWN dish detergent. Thats right kiddies, DAWN. We put a few drops into a bucket, put in warm water, get a cloth designed to be scratch resistant to glass, and then wipe it down, then dry it with a dry cloth of the same kind. Comes up clean every time, and wont attract dirt or dust for much longer than normal, usually about two to three weeks before you need to clean it again. Same for the lenses.

As for the projectors themselves, we just hose em down once a year. Ok thats not true, but we do wipe em down as often as possible. They are simplex xl's, and with film-guard, they just don't every get that dirty.

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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 03-29-2000, 03:13 PM:

Dave: you might want to mix a batch of our home brew degreaser: In a 16oz sprayer, 3 parts 99% alcohol, 1 part water, 2 drops Dawn or Joy (from the short bottles), one good squeeze lemon juice out of the plastic lemon thing. Cheap and cheerful, and gets the job done u bet.

By the way, those "Swiffer" mops that are in stores now pick up an amazing amount of dust from around projector bases, try one, your jaw will hit the floor when you see what the broom leaves behind. Not that anyone lets their leader hit the floor mind you. . .

Posted by Nick Perry (Member # 361) on 03-30-2000, 02:54 AM:

I have the all projector rollers, sprockets, gate, sound head cleaned after each show using a rag, toothbrush & paintbrush. To clean gate and sounddrum I use heavily diluted windex. It's about 1 part windex:6 parts water. This gets the gate spotless.
ALL rollers on the platter system and payout module are also dusted after each show.
Optics are cleaned with pure alhohol and cottin buds once a week.
Lenses are cleaned once a month.
Port glasses are done once a week.
Once a week as part of a strict maintenance roster, all rollers, projector housing, platter posts and arms, base of projector, audio rack, plates, and portholes are given a good clean using a rag, spray and wipe, and metho(on all projector and platter parts).

There's alot more but it's very location orientated. I suggest you have a go at devising your own daily maintenance roster that staff sign off on when completed.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-30-2000, 06:36 AM:

Randy: Plain plate or window glass often has optical imperfections that look like uncleanable scum in the intense light of the projected beam. With age, this scum tends to get worse. I've also seen plain glass with minute "bubbles" inside. All of these factors tend to scatter light, causing optical flare and loss of contrast on the screen. Unless the glass has anti-reflection coatings, you may lose more than 10 percent of your light (that nice bright picture on the back wall or ceiling of the projection room is stealing light from the audience).

Port glass should aways be installed at an angle to the projected light beam, so as not to reflect light back into the lens.

Check out my article on "Conquering Contrast Killers": http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-30-2000, 09:14 AM:

A place I worked at had an air compressor to blow-clean the projectors. It was a good idea, but I would always cap the lenses. I found that if they weren't capped, the light film of oil that just about every projector has would get sprayed onto the lens.

Just last month, we had a guy try to whipe clean the upper sprocket of a JJ while it was running; stripped a fiber gear in the back. Same thing happened with it's twin about 10 years ago with a tooothbrush; bent sprocket shaft.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 03-31-2000, 10:27 PM:

I wonder if milk would be good to clean out the projectors? Would make snacking easier during long movies.

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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-01-2000, 11:55 AM:

Fiber gear stripped
That is why I always insist that all parts are cleaned by turning the machine over by hand
I had a theatre that wrapped a rag in an XL intermitent and stripped the soundhead and main drive gears
At another theatre a person managed the same trick with a AA2 when showing off how fast he could clean a machine
The projector was scrapped for the replacement parts would have cost more than the replacement machine
When the person was fired he went to the labour board and they gave him his job back
that sucks death penalty for anyone who kills a AA2

Posted by Nic Margherio (Member # 273) on 04-02-2000, 11:27 PM:

Randy, the absolute BEST product in the universe to clean port glass is Liberty Mirror Optical Cleaner, available from National Cinema Supply. The stuff is incredible. It is a white, chalky liquid that is applied with a shop rag, allowed to dry, and wiped clean with another rag, preferably while someone runs the lamp to see exaclty what you are doing. Once cleaned, you will barely be able to tell you have port glass at all! A word of caution though, it can be rather messy to use and I recommend that you clean only the area struck by the projection beam with it.

Posted by Richard Quesnelle (Member # 391) on 04-05-2000, 11:01 PM:

Thanks guys for all the great tips.

I cleaned my platters with a damp cloth of Windex. Is that OK by most or should I use something different.

Also, what would be the best degreaser/cleaner I should use on my Century c's.

Would Mark Odgen's homebrew work well for this job? Are there any recommendations on cleaning the inside of these projectors? They are old and I find it cramped and hard to get most places with just a rag. Do I need to remove any rollers or is there a secret tip from the experts.

Thanks
Reg

Posted by Mike Colley (Member # 327) on 04-06-2000, 06:25 AM:

I always had a hell of a time cleaning port glass until I found a handy little item at Home Depot. It is a squeegee kit that has a soft cotton head to loosen up any tough stains and a traditional rubber squeegee to wipe away the water. The solution I use with this is 1:1 isopropyl alcohol and water. This only takes about one minute inside and out and the glass is perfectly clean every time. Virtually no reflection afterwards! The only thing left on the port is the scratches from prior poor cleaning practices.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-07-2000, 04:32 PM:

I've been wondering if what I'm seeing is actually microscopic scratches in the glass. Maybe I should try to get that Liberty Mirror cleaner... or something to polish out the scratches. How about "Glass Wax"?

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 09-12-2003, 02:01 AM:

quote:
Use non-metallic pick (e.g, plastic guitar pick, hardwood or plastic manicure tool) to dislodge any hardened gelatin buildup on gate. Metal or abrasive tools may nick or damage polished surfaces.

I use a Scotch-Brite pad for cleaning/oxidation removal/polishing surfaces for soldering or mechanical electrical connection, & I've been very tempted to try it on gates that have cemented junk that won't budge.

Would use of a Scotch-Brite pad accelerate wear of the rails on a gate?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-12-2003, 02:19 AM:

I'd only use it carefully as a last resort. Remember, Scotch Brite is used for scuffing up materials (like aluminum) to prep it for painting. You're certainly going to damage a polished rail.

Have you tried alcohol and a tooth brush? 98% of the time you can get the hardest build up out with alcohol and a tooth brush without disassembling anything. The other 2% of the time it'll come off after disassembling so you can apply a little more pressure.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-12-2003, 12:10 PM:

On badly gunked up rails I use a soft brass brush that looks like a slightly oversized toothbrush

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-13-2003, 04:44 AM:

Two parts distilled water, one part isopropanol and a few drops of photographic wetting agent seems to work well on port glass.

Orange sticks are good for removing small deposits of emulsion etc from metal parts without risk of scratching.

Posted by Don E. Nelson (Member # 1049) on 09-15-2003, 03:05 PM:

Thanks for the advice, this gets printed out and goes into my projection journal notes

Posted by Joshua Burnham (Member # 1640) on 09-15-2003, 03:31 PM:

I am also taking notes, but I had a few questions what are orange sticks? How & when do you clean the LED readers? I am running christie m35gps's. I haven't been been properly taught how to clean any optics for that matter.

thanks

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-15-2003, 03:41 PM:

Orange sticks: smooth wooden sticks, about 10cm long, a bit like a large cocktail stick, pointed at one end, flattened like a screwdriver blade at the other. You find them in shops that sell things that women use on fingernails, nail varnish, nail files emery boards etc. They are hard enough to remove deposits from camera and projector gates, but smooth and soft enough to have no risk of scratching the parts, unlike a metal tool.